UK IVA Modifications

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Pop103electric
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

tom91 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:18 pm In the IVA manual it states that a required document that proves R100.1 compliance of the HV battery. Only certain places can create the documents and I have had quotes back of 7-10K gbp.

Also just needing to have a system that meets the requirements might be a a big ask for certain builds. Also I believe documentation is required per battery box.
I just saw this video
Pop103electric
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

LRBen wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:10 pm Oh yeah that might sting me as well since I cut out the very flimsy spare boot compartment in the front of the MG. I was hoping since it was not structural at all I would get away with it. From what I have heard these days the DVLA are sending out someone to check the car over. So it's up to the person who inspects it as to whether you would have to get an IVA or not.
It does seem a bit of a risk to get all that way only to be denied at the last hurdle.
Exactly where I’m at. Vehicle inspected and v5 pulled.
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catphish
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by catphish »

Pop103electric wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:40 pm Exactly where I’m at. Vehicle inspected and v5 pulled.
Was there something specific you changed that caused this?
Scubascooby
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Scubascooby »

Once again bureaucracy fails to keep up with progress. I bet petrol tanks and exhausts don't cause this many problems.

They just need to specify the construction methods for battery boxes.
mtrehy
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by mtrehy »

Hey all.

Has anyone actually gone through the process of getting battery boxes certified by MIra (or similar)? I think I may be forced to go this route so would be great to hear from anyone that has actually done it. Is there a manual or guidance that covers exactly how to make a battery box compliant or what is actually being tested?

Cheers
Scubascooby
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Scubascooby »

I had a thought yesterday. What happens to conversions approved in other countries, like Germany ?

Would it be possible to get a conversion approved in another country and then use it here ?
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janosch
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by janosch »

Licensing it elsewhere and importing is a good idea, the certification agencies are in competition with each other in principle.
It is a quite common practice. I think pre-Brexit it would have been a tad easier than it is now, but who knows, maybe someone can find a path?

I don't know why people are talking about battery box certifications, we didn't have to do that:

The path for this that we found is:
  1. MOT
  2. write a report about electrical compliance (this is pages and pages of literature and boring writing)
  3. get an appointment for an electrical safety inspection for ~£750 and get a certificate
  4. submit all of this to get an IVA appointment ~£400
  5. pass the IVA appointment
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rstevens81
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by rstevens81 »

janosch wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:11 pm Licensing it elsewhere and importing is a good idea, the certification agencies are in competition with each other in principle.
It is a quite common practice. I think pre-Brexit it would have been a tad easier than it is now, but who knows, maybe someone can find a path?

I don't know why people are talking about battery box certifications, we didn't have to do that:

The path for this that we found is:
  1. MOT
  2. write a report about electrical compliance (this is pages and pages of literature and boring writing)
  3. get an appointment for an electrical safety inspection for ~£750 and get a certificate
  4. submit all of this to get an IVA appointment ~£400
  5. pass the IVA appointment


daft question...
Now if you go through the steps of the IVA, the car is essentially re-registered therefore do you (a) get electric on the v5? (b) get ved of zero as the car is electric?
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janosch
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by janosch »

rstevens81 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:28 pm daft question...
Now if you go through the steps of the IVA, the car is essentially re-registered therefore do you (a) get electric on the v5? (b) get ved of zero as the car is electric?
Not daft: Nope, because of the DVLA situation.

They reclassified us as zero for a while "by accident" and then changed their mind again & asking for back tax too. I believe that's what happened to everyone sooner or later for plates 2002 - 2017.
mtrehy
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by mtrehy »

janosch wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:11 pm Licensing it elsewhere and importing is a good idea, the certification agencies are in competition with each other in principle.
It is a quite common practice. I think pre-Brexit it would have been a tad easier than it is now, but who knows, maybe someone can find a path?

I don't know why people are talking about battery box certifications, we didn't have to do that:

The path for this that we found is:
  1. MOT
  2. write a report about electrical compliance (this is pages and pages of literature and boring writing)
  3. get an appointment for an electrical safety inspection for ~£750 and get a certificate
  4. submit all of this to get an IVA appointment ~£400
  5. pass the IVA appointment
Hi Janosch,

This is very interesting.

Am I correct in my understanding that you had an IVA inspection but instead of providing the R100.1 certification from MIRA you produced your own report that demonstrated compliance with R100.1?

Thanks
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janosch
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by janosch »

That's it.

You have to provide electrical measurements as well, and they don't take your word for it, but you can give the IVA people a call and they will tell you who they accept. A certified inspector comes to your car and witnesses you making the measurements and notes down the values.

You will end up with a 15 - 20 page report about your conversion.

My understanding is that its Horiba Mira, Millbrook, the VCA or a foreign testing provider like TÜV Nord, TÜV Süd that are accepted by the IVA people. This may vary from IVA test centre to test centre as well, so I would check.
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EV_Builder
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by EV_Builder »

R100.1 is it in total needed or only partly?
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke modules.
Scubascooby
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Scubascooby »

So for the MOT I assume the conversion was completed.

The report. If there was a form to complete instead then it would indicate which sections of electrical compliance are needed. It's not my area of knowledge, I'm just a physicist.
Is this just for the batteries or the whole thing ?
Could the wiring could be checked by an EV engineer who could produce the report ? How would they check things once it's all assembled ?

Inspection. I don't know what measurements are needed or what instruments are needed to take them.

At least it looks like there is a path to getting the conversion on the road even if the road tax is wrong.
mtrehy
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by mtrehy »

I contacted MIRA this week. The guy that is responsible is on holiday but told he will contact me next week. I will try to get as much info as I can about obtaining R100.1 via MIRA.

Obviously it's very interesting that Janosch produced a report that was acceptable for IVA without going through the R100.1 route (which is going to be very expensive).

Similar to Scooby, I would be really interested to know more about the report that Janosh produced. Janosch is this something you would be willing to share, perhaps in a redacted format if it is confidential?

I personally am not too concerned about the road tax, but I am building a brand new vehicle that must be correctly registered as electric and on a 2023 plate
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rstevens81
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by rstevens81 »

Scubascooby wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:53 am EV engineer who could produce the report ?
What is an ev engineer? Someone who has done a conversation should be appropriately experienced? I know of many 'professional engineers' I would not trust to change a lightbulb.

The car tax thing is not a showstopper, but it's annoying but I can live with it. It's having electric as fuel type that is of most interest as you can't apply for a congestion charge exception without the v5 saying battery electric (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/conges ... exemptions) I expect other cities will follow in requesting this.

Long term I don't expect the current car tax system to stick very long I expect we will all cars regardless of age to be forced on some sort of charge per mile dongle regardless of fuel or just a fixed rate to all cars regardless of fuel.
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Jonr
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Jonr »

I'm based in the UK and it seems a major issue to get a car road legal after the conversion. As an individual rather than a business, how realistic is it to be able to use a car converted to an EV on the UK roads?
Is there a listing of successfuly converted cars, and what hoops the owners had to jump through?
I have my motor/inverter running on the bench but the most challenging part of the project appears to be the ability to use the converted car on the road.
What are peoples thoughts on this?
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Bigpie
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Bigpie »

I wouldn't say major, mine has been on the road for over a year. Tom's z3 like wise, I know of at.least half a dozen more.

Just make everything bolt on, use original engine mounts etc. Don't cut or drill the chassis. Post 2001 they wont update the V5 which is a pain.

Write to your MP to ask the situation be improved. The more of us that do so the more likely they are to bother do something
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rstevens81
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by rstevens81 »

My advice is convert to car you want/love 😁 which you seem to have chosen 😁
Since it's a pre 2001 most of the worries go away. Just make it so it bolts in, the DVLA seem to be touchy about welding and drilling holes into chasis. The way I have been doing mine is basically make everything non permanent so you could basically re-ice it you really wanted .
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catphish
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by catphish »

Jonr wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:56 pm I'm based in the UK and it seems a major issue to get a car road legal after the conversion. As an individual rather than a business, how realistic is it to be able to use a car converted to an EV on the UK roads?
Is there a listing of successfuly converted cars, and what hoops the owners had to jump through?
I have my motor/inverter running on the bench but the most challenging part of the project appears to be the ability to use the converted car on the road.
What are peoples thoughts on this?
All you have to do is *not* modify the chassis. That means no cutting, drilling or welding of original car. Use existing mounting points. If you do that, the car is *already* legal to use on the road. All you need to do if inform the DVLA and get insurance.

The insurance can be a pain but everyone seems to find some eventually.
Jonr
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Jonr »

Thanks for that, it's most helpful.
From an admin perspective, would it be true to say for the UK and DVLA;
1) - for pre MY 2002 cars, just a MoT is required to legally run an EV conversion on the road?
2) - for MY 2002 to 2017, same as above but DVLA don't recognise the change to EV from a road tax perspective?
3) - post MY 2017 - what happens here?

When doing a conversion, I follow the points about make everything bolt in using the exisitng mounting points. I assume if you did wel/drill key parts of the car an IVA would be required and all the pain that goes with it.

But, what about battery boxes, do these need to be tested? I heard stories about each battery box needs testing by someone like MIRA and great expense. Was this required for the conversions you know about?

Lastly, do you know of EV conversion blogs in the UK that tackle DVLA/MoT "gotchas" that we should all be aware of?
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tom91
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by tom91 »

Alot has been changing recently. I believe every conversion the DVLA now wants an inspector to come view the car.
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rstevens81
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by rstevens81 »

It's actually march 2001 (y reg) is the cut off date.
There a double importance to that date as prior to that date type approval isn't required on parts fitted to a car this hasn't been used yet but it wouldn't surprise me, this probably negates any battery box requirements on a pre2001 that doesn't go through IVA.
(I don't think believe they have asked for battery boxes to be tested yet)
For a pre 2001 strictly speaking you are legal once it's mot'd.
DVLA seem to want to check every car at the moment regardless of year as tom above stated, they even inspected an 80's agricultural quad bike that was tax exempt!
So as far we can tell the check is to check that you haven't modified the chasis and there is nothing obviously unsafe.

Edit A post 2001 they wouldn't change fuel of tax type and they maybe a pita giving v5 back

Edit yes a 2017 should be able to be changed but no one has found a 300,000 Mile donor yet as they are too expensive
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catphish
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by catphish »

Jonr wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:52 pm But, what about battery boxes, do these need to be tested? I heard stories about each battery box needs testing by someone like MIRA and great expense. Was this required for the conversions you know about?
As far as we know, battery boxes only need to be tested if you need an IVA. Not an issue for MOT.
mtrehy
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by mtrehy »

I spoke with MIRA today as I need to get r100.1 and full IVA for a 2023 model year and plate. They are very helpful and I spoke directly with the tester who communicates well via email of mobile. From the info I received the test (although very expensive) is also very basic, they won't open up battery boxes and only need access to HV junction box. Cars can be tested before 100% complete (ie don't need paint, interior, headlights etc) but should be functional in terms of EV equipment. Indicated cost is 6K + vat but as I am an individual (rather than a large company) there is some hope that I might get some reduction but I am waiting to hear. They want about 2 weeks notice currently, it takes 1 day and they want me there to assist. I think they will be happy to do a video walk around prior to the test to make sure there's nothing obvious, equally they said they are helpful and not looking to fail & retest.

It's a lot of money though....

regulations that must be met are here:

https://unece.org/transport/vehicle-reg ... ons-81-100

Cost is per vehicle, not per battery box
Jonr
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Jonr »

Has anyone converted a car in the UK of MY between 2001 and 2017 then got it road legal? If so what was required and have you fully recovered?
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