Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

[Peter]

A lot depends on car and location etc but as a guide mine is £525 fully comp.

[tom91]

Baroness yet?

Please explain what you mean.

Inform the DVLA when changing ANYTHING on your vehicle: https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-detai ... ertificate

Tax rates: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

When is a vehicle "radically altered" : https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles

[zippy500]

wow,look at the points system, you could end up with Q registered car if heavily modified, and nobody wants a Q plate

[tom91]

wow,look at the points system, you could end up with Q registered car if heavily modified, and nobody wants a Q plate

Thing is if you do not modify the chassis or monocoque, so no cutting or welding on it (rust repair is not an issue as far as I know) usually means that you can avoid the Radically altered seeing you will then most likely be reusing the steering setup, suspension and axles these yield enough points to stay clear of that.

[rstevens81]

wow,look at the points system, you could end up with Q registered car if heavily modified, and nobody wants a Q plate

I would argue that a q plate is misunderstood and really quite irrelevant at least in the DIY scene.

Firstly you a building a car for yourself so who cares what the number plate is, if you sell the car you are never going to get back much of the money you spent on it, that's true for any car! regardless of the plate.

Secondly treat it like a badge of honour you have managed to modify you car to such an extent that they give you one! [Rather than use a tin can for exhaust, stick a subwoofer in the boot, wear a baseball cap and make plumes of smoke!]

[zippy500]

Ok, just one question, don't want to go off topic,

so, if you decide to fit a Tesla unit at the back of RWD car, you have to make some serious welding to the back of the car to accommodate the motor.

Will this have a impact/count to the 5 points of the interfering with body/chassis setup, it says you have to have that 1st 5 points ( unmodded chassis) as part of registration.

Lose 2 points for not using the original transmission .

sounds like a hard game to beat, Ready player 1

[bobby_come_lately]

Baroness yet?

Please explain what you mean.

Inform the DVLA when changing ANYTHING on your vehicle: https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-detai ... ertificate

Tax rates: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

When is a vehicle "radically altered" : https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles

I understand all that but based on this thread there seems to be a lot of confusion about what the process is. The sense I get is that people feel they are getting away with it rather than being confident in the process. I'm a novice here so be delighted if that's wrong but that's what I understood from the discussion.

[tom91]

I understand all that but based on this thread there seems to be a lot of confusion about what the process is. The sense I get is that people feel they are getting away with it rather than being confident in the process. I'm a novice here so be delighted if that's wrong but that's what I understood from the discussion.

The DVLA only know what you tell them / show them, so yes people get away with it by sharing as little as possible. Alot of modified vehicles on the road that are not legal by the letter of the law.

Most get away with it, until you have an accident and the insurance companies/police get involved.

[bobby_come_lately]

So I guess the question is, is there an appetite inside this group to push for that process to be made more robust without unduly disadvantaging either the conversion companies or the responsible enthusiasts?

Personally, I'd rather know I've followed the rules and done it right than feel like I'm getting away with it. But that's challenging if the rules are unclear and unevenly applied.

[tom91]

Personally, I'd rather know I've followed the rules and done it right than feel like I'm getting away with it. But that's challenging if the rules are unclear and unevenly applied.

Correct, if you ring the DVLA the answer you get depends on the person you are talking to.

We have requested information clarifying the requirements for a SVA or IVA when the vehicle is electric and they are abit more clear but still not 100% concrete. However there are rules there you can follow and engineer to before having your work validated by a accredited entity at considerable cost (>7K gbp) so this would put it out of reach for a "traditional DIY build".

[bobby_come_lately]

Sounds to me like the ideal situation would be clear guidance that what is required is MOT and V5 change, as long as it's a motor swap without major structural change. And for this guidance to be consistently applied. Which is kind of where I started - should this be what the community lobbies for?

[rstevens81]

For a basic EV conversion (where the motor is connected to the gearbox or possibly where the motor replaces the diff) it should be simply a engine change and fuel type change as it most similar to replacing a diesel engine with a petrol one or changing the engine ccc (in this case electric and zero cc), this should be sufficent to abide by the rules and even if you get shot down then the below should be the worst case.

From what I can work out, the worst case would be an EV conversion would be classed as a "rebuilt" (basically a hot rod) which would require a "basic" IVA at circa £450 which isn't the end of the world but not desirable.

Fuel change V5C https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-detai ... ce-to-give
IVA link: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/ind ... e-approval
IVA Costs https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... tober-2014
The dreaded IVA document (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -guide.pdf)

Snippet from DVLA [below] (https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... t-vehicles)

A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)
You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.
For cars or light vans:
suspension (front and back)
steering assembly
axles (both)
transmission
engine

[tom91]

From what I can work out, the worst case would be an EV conversion would be classed as a "rebuilt" (basically a hot rod) which would require a "basic" IVA at circa £450 which isn't the end of the world but not desirable.

Issue is that the manual shows a section: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... hicles.pdf

Topic 69 Electric/Hybrid Vehicles

Ensure the vehicle or system as presented is accompanied by
satisfactory evidence in the form of:
Original mass produced vehicle approval to ECE R100.01
or
A test report to ECE R100.01 witnessed by the Approval
Authority (VCA) or Authorised Technical Service
or
Model Report created by Customer Service Centre, Ellipse
Swansea (CSC)
and in these cases a Visual Inspection is required
Note 1: The use of stretchy or soft coverings over high voltage
terminals is strictly forbidden

The generation of the relevant R100.01 Compliance thus cannot be done by ones self.

[rstevens81]

Ahh Rats! and let me guess insanely expensive! i.e. circa £7k

Just found a diy electric car article... this makes my plan for a kit car build sunk ... looks like it going to have to be an mx5 for me then [and keep it as simple i.e motor swap]

[SciroccoEV]

If you stick within the confines of the Low Voltage Directive (no higher than 75 volt peak) then you avoid the need for the expensive test.
As the regulations currently stand, once the vehicle has been registered, you could then upgrade the system.

[zippy500]

Be a real in the #$$ , if after heavily modifying your car the inspectors want 7K

So is the simplest answer is just too do a engine to motor swap ?

[Kevin Sharpe]

The generation of the relevant R100.01 Compliance thus cannot be done by ones self.

Yet another business opportunity for someone

If you want to avoid the complexities of the Dutch system or the disappointment of the Slovenian system (here) then you really do need to get organised

[tom91]

The generation of the relevant R100.01 Compliance thus cannot be done by ones self.

Yet another business opportunity for someone

Sure, but you need accreditation as a certified testing house to do that...

[bobby_come_lately]

The generation of the relevant R100.01 Compliance thus cannot be done by ones self.

Yet another business opportunity for someone

If you want to avoid the complexities of the Dutch system or the disappointment of the Slovenian system (here) then you really do need to get organised

Picking up from Kevin's point and clarifying my earlier suggestion then, balancing safety and simplicity of process:

Should UK-based members then be pushing for rules/clarification that says a straight engine & transmission swap to electric should officially be treated as any other engine swap and licensed by the simple process of MOT and V5 change?

I feel like there's a good argument that more radical changes probably need greater oversight. But that the possibility of making electric vehicles more accessible using largely proven, recycled components justifies a fairly light touch in regulation.

Just trying to get a sense if that's something people are interested in lobbying for, before digging into it further. I'm guessing lots of projects on here (including mine) just wouldn't be viable with massive fees for certification, and I would rather be inside both the spirit and the letter of the law.

[rstevens81]

Picking up from Kevin's point and clarifying my earlier suggestion then, balancing safety and simplicity of process:

Should UK-based members then be pushing for rules/clarification that says a straight engine & transmission swap to electric should officially be treated as any other engine swap and licensed by the simple process of MOT and V5 change?

I feel like there's a good argument that more radical changes probably need greater oversight. But that the possibility of making electric vehicles more accessible using largely proven, recycled components justifies a fairly light touch in regulation.

Just trying to get a sense if that's something people are interested in lobbying for, before digging into it further. I'm guessing lots of projects on here (including mine) just wouldn't be viable with massive fees for certification, and I would rather be inside both the spirit and the letter of the law.

I agree that UK members should be pushing for "a straight engine & transmission swap to electric should officially be treated as any other engine swap", and also further clarification where the line in the sand is for radical changes (when is it radically altered).

[DaveH]

If you stick within the confines of the Low Voltage Directive (no higher than 75 volt peak) then you avoid the need for the expensive test.
As the regulations currently stand, once the vehicle has been registered, you could then upgrade the system.

Not sure the LVD would apply in these cases anyway, but it covers equipment operating from 75 to 1500 V DC. Under 75 V would be outside scope of LVD.

[Kevin Sharpe]

"Founded in early 2020, Electric Vehicle Association England is an organisation of passionate electric vehicle drivers in England. We are committed to providing a voice for EV drivers in England and promoting the broader environmental and health benefits of electric vehicles."

https://www.evaengland.org.uk/

[bobby_come_lately]

"Founded in early 2020, Electric Vehicle Association England is an organisation of passionate electric vehicle drivers in England. We are committed to providing a voice for EV drivers in England and promoting the broader environmental and health benefits of electric vehicles."

https://www.evaengland.org.uk/

Aha - this may be the right vehicle (if you will pardon the pun) for any lobbying.

[TFirenza]

Is there anything else to do to give this a shove? I emailed my mp a couple weeks ago

[bobby_come_lately]

So, I emailed the Electric Vehicle Association about retrofit and this was the response:

"Thank you for your email and for supporting the early work of EVA England!

We are presently developing our product and in the meantime are galvanising EV driver interest so as to feed into the Government’s consultation on the date for the phase out of the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans.

Our priority at the moment is raising funds so as to cover the cost of a professional website and database management system. We are hoping to begin welcoming members formally towards the end of the year. It would be excellent to have you involved when we go fully live!

Regarding retrofits, this is something that has come up a few times in recent weeks and is definitely an area that should be looked at. We are developing our high-level work streams presently and will delve into greater detail once we have a developed member base. Retrofits should of course be something we consider at that stage. In these early days we are going to focus on the phase-out date, and likely a few issues around charging infrastructure, but expect that this will broaden out quite quickly.

I have added you to our list of prospective members and hope to be in touch in the coming months. Looking forward to having you involved."

We can all continue to write to write to our MPs individually (would you be willing to share your letter as a template @TFirenza?), or more of us could look to join this association and push it to focus more on retrofit?