[DRIVING] The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

[Zapatero]

Hi, are you selling the gearbox seperately? I recently bought a GEN1 Leaf that i drive everyday but unfortunately a bearing of the gearbox is noisy. If you need the spline, i can send you mine, of course.

Cheers, Philip

[Cookie6000]

Hi, are you selling the gearbox seperately? I recently bought a GEN1 Leaf that i drive everyday but unfortunately a bearing of the gearbox is noisy. If you need the spline, i can send you mine, of course.

I never took the gearbox with the entire stack, unfortunately. Wish I had! I went back and asked for the gearbox plus half shafts later and they wanted €500... no thanks. Do you think it's a bearing gone? If you do get sorted with a replacement box and have the urge to remove the shaft and associated spline I would gladly pay for it plus the shipping.

Fiachra

[doobedoobedo]

Are the gen1 and gen2 gearboxes the same?

[Zapatero]

At the moment i have an Leaf 2012 with a defective bearing in the gearbox (rattle noise under acceleration and decelleration, 4 rattles per wheel RPM). I have a 2014 Gearbox that i'm going to take apart just for the spline.

The 2012 Gearbox is visually different to the 2014 gearbox:

2013 and ongoing Gearbox


2012 GEN1 Leaf Gearbox, pretty much nothing is like on the 2013 and up gearbox:


So in my case i cant just swap the gearboxes and take the spline of the GEN1 gearbox. Also i'm asking myself if the spline will have the same shape on the GEN1 and GEN2 Gearbox. I'm hoping on taking both gearboxes apart and the inner part will be pretty much the same so i can swap the defective bearing of my 2012 gearbox out with one of the 2014 gearbox. But it would be easier to have the 2012 gearbox and just swap.

If i get another Gearbox of course i will sell you the spline of the defective GEN1 Gearbox

[arber333]

Or you just read the model p/n number on the bearing and get one rated for more than 10KRPM and put the new one in. There is no guarantee the final bearing is the same in both gearboxes. It may also require different shimms to seat properly. You may cause yourself a host of problems.

[Cookie6000]

If i get another Gearbox of course i will sell you the spline of the defective GEN1 Gearbox

Sounds good! If I find a cheap gearbox closer by, I'll let you know.

[mcgousha]

Great project Fiachra, looks like you've been making swift progress. Good luck with the next steps.

There are definite differences between the gen 1 and gen 2 gearboxes. I found one of them the hard way!

It was only after making my own custom half shafts and failing to get one of them to mate with my gen 2 gearbox that I realised my donor leaf shaft was from a gen 1.

The spline pattern where the CV joint goes into the gearbox is different, the gen 1 seems to have a couple more splines than the gen 2 but is also narrower.

I don't know what other differences there are inside the box.

[Cookie6000]

Well, been a few slow weeks scratching of head, greasing of hands, purchasing of stuff, reading of internet and probing of electrics but I feel like I am now just about to turn a corner.

First stop, gearbox. I decided to remove the petrol manual 5 speed for one from a diesel for the lower gear ratios. The 012 gearbox fitted to Audi 80's, 100's, A4's, Passats ran for over 20 years. I got one from a 1999 A4 tdi and straight away ran into an issue with the flange shafts.

I found out pretty quick that the narrower collar of the stub axle from the 80 wouldn't fit. Not a biggie though as after many problem solving mugs of tea and fig rolls, I figured out that 012409343H flange shaft fitted to oodles of A4's/Passats from the early noughties have them. So, this Friday I will be mostly... running around a couple of scrappers with a vernier calipers and diy flange shaft extraction tool. As you can see, I just need to find a 108mm cup with a 38mm collar. Should have one by elevenses...

In other things mechanical, I brought the Zafira PAS pump down to my local hydraulic genius and between us, within an hour had the complete hose system boxed off. V happy with the result. Just need to mount it in the engine bay now. Big bonus with this system in all Audi 80's is, there is high pressure for the PAS and low pressure line for the brake 'bomb' boost assist. No need for electronic vac pump help. Love it.

Something I may have shown before but, chop chop of the Audi clutch freed the involute spline I need for the coupler. I have the option of the Fiat Multipla 1.6l clutch plate as a fallback but I have the chance to get the actual spline size of the Leaf output shaft on a CNC which I have been unsuccessful in finding. Once found, into the machine shop to get the coupler made up. With the motor and gearbox offered up, there is 40mm gap between them but there is at least 20mm I can cut off the gearbox shaft to reduce the gap for the adapter plate. Happy days.

On the battery side. Not yet opened the 2015 24kwh pack but was more than delighted to find out that she was happy in her slumber at 54% SOC and a healthy 93.7% still in her legs with the help of Wolftronix Packsniffer 2. Hope to put this up on my channel soon. If I am lucky, the 24 modules in the rear of the pack will stay together and fit in a battery box where the petrol tank used to live going on initial measurements.

Had a big leap forward when I got a dig out on Damiens Leaf VCU board after ruining the microcontroller soldering on the 1st one. Just a little more fine detail needing completing on Mk2 and have it off with someone who does this day in day out to make sure all is good on the fine pitch Atmel ATSAM3X8E legs. Cant wait to get this back and hook it up to one of a couple of pedals I have now - from a Leaf and Ford Transit connect. Just a matter of which will fit the best in the Audi footwell.

Lastly, really enjoing getting my head around all things precharge and planning my HV junction boxes and overall car design schematic. I'll post it up soon for people to pick away at it and get some feedback.

Here's is the latest update from the last few weeks with more info while I waffle around the workshop. I finally feel I am on the cusp of some big moves with getting motors running on the bench, building boxes, fitting steering and running wiring through the car in preparation for the next steps.
Thanks for all the help

[Kevin Sharpe]

Fascinating update

[johu]

Can you explain, why do you go through the trouble of using a Diesel transmission? Couldn't you just stick the petrol one in a higher gear?
The petrol Touran I'm converting has a six speed and its best driveable in 3rd, sluggish in 4th, let alone 5th or 6th. 2nd gives you a kick in the back and triggers traction control

[Cookie6000]

Exxxxxxactly the very same question I was asking myself today johu, driving to 5 breakers coming away empty handed
I guess it came from reading numerous threads about diesel vs petrol gearboxes, ratios, robustness, got a diesel one for next to nothing... and it was clean The old petrol one looks like it spent it's life under take-away extractor fan. One more check with two guys tomorrow and if it comes to nothing, it's time to admit defeat and clean the petrol 5 speed and csrry on....

[johu]

Yes I know Damien killed numerous gear boxes with his Siemens motor that he got straight from a freakin bus The Leaf motor (rated 240Nm) and in fact most EV motors today are not incredibly torquey. Instead they achieve their high power density by spinning crazy fast.

[Bratitude]

Well, been a few slow weeks scratching of head, greasing of hands, purchasing of stuff, reading of internet and probing of electrics but I feel like I am now just about to turn a corner.

First stop, gearbox. I decided to remove the petrol manual 5 speed for one from a diesel for the lower gear ratios. The 012 gearbox fitted to Audi 80's, 100's, A4's, Passats ran for over 20 years. I got one from a 1999 A4 tdi and straight away ran into an issue with the flange shafts.
20200118_161840.jpg
I found out pretty quick that the narrower collar of the stub axle from the 80 wouldn't fit. Not a biggie though as after many problem solving mugs of tea and fig rolls, I figured out that 012409343H flange shaft fitted to oodles of A4's/Passats from the early noughties have them. So, this Friday I will be mostly... running around a couple of scrappers with a vernier calipers and diy flange shaft extraction tool. As you can see, I just need to find a 108mm cup with a 38mm collar. Should have one by elevenses...
012409343H Flange Shafts.jpg
In other things mechanical, I brought the Zafira PAS pump down to my local hydraulic genius and between us, within an hour had the complete hose system boxed off. V happy with the result. Just need to mount it in the engine bay now. Big bonus with this system in all Audi 80's is, there is high pressure for the PAS and low pressure line for the brake 'bomb' boost assist. No need for electronic vac pump help. Love it.
20200115_130349.jpg
20200115_212728.jpg
Something I may have shown before but, chop chop of the Audi clutch freed the involute spline I need for the coupler. I have the option of the Fiat Multipla 1.6l clutch plate as a fallback but I have the chance to get the actual spline size of the Leaf output shaft on a CNC which I have been unsuccessful in finding. Once found, into the machine shop to get the coupler made up. With the motor and gearbox offered up, there is 40mm gap between them but there is at least 20mm I can cut off the gearbox shaft to reduce the gap for the adapter plate. Happy days.
20191202_210805.jpg
20200128_220135.jpg

On the battery side. Not yet opened the 2015 24kwh pack but was more than delighted to find out that she was happy in her slumber at 54% SOC and a healthy 93.7% still in her legs with the help of Wolftronix Packsniffer 2. Hope to put this up on my channel soon. If I am lucky, the 24 modules in the rear of the pack will stay together and fit in a battery box where the petrol tank used to live going on initial measurements.
20191221_134305.jpg

Had a big leap forward when I got a dig out on Damiens Leaf VCU board after ruining the microcontroller soldering on the 1st one. Just a little more fine detail needing completing on Mk2 and have it off with someone who does this day in day out to make sure all is good on the fine pitch Atmel ATSAM3X8E legs. Cant wait to get this back and hook it up to one of a couple of pedals I have now - from a Leaf and Ford Transit connect. Just a matter of which will fit the best in the Audi footwell.
20191201_160426.jpg

Lastly, really enjoing getting my head around all things precharge and planning my HV junction boxes and overall car design schematic. I'll post it up soon for people to pick away at it and get some feedback.
20200201_162413.jpg

Here's is the latest update from the last few weeks with more info while I waffle around the workshop. I finally feel I am on the cusp of some big moves with getting motors running on the bench, building boxes, fitting steering and running wiring through the car in preparation for the next steps.
Thanks for all the help

I’m almost finished with making a cad model of the leaf splines/ coupler that will match with a rotex gs38. Next few days should have it available. Thinking 3d sinter metal printing

[damian.lo]

Hi,
Yesterday I tried to fit spline cutted by Wire Cut EDM Machine, which we little scaled from Multipla clutch disc. Was to small, so tomorrow will be second trial with lilttle bigger (means outer diameter 0,1 bigger). If will be fit, I will replace mine from Multipla to new one. Otherwise, if You will have 3d model faster, pls publish this here and I will try this ASAP and show results.

[Cookie6000]

Been a few weeks since the last update. Few things have come together and milestones met.

With the gaping hole of work and testing to be done with the missing VCU board still AWOL, I pressed ahead with getting some power steering and brakes sorted. I chopped and welded the original cradle for Zafira TRW ps pump to fit snuggly into the engine bay. After a lot of back and forth, very happy with the way it sits. With the help of a local hydraulic workshop, I got some new fittings, main feed hose made up. Wired the pump up and away we go. Delighted to say the least . I know it's small but to be able to spin that wheel with one finger and press the solid brakes made me pretty happy. Here's the action plus some of the other updates.


Other good news arrived in the form of the once elusive 108mm flange shafts I had been after for an age. One of the members in the UK on the Audi S2 forums who has a field full of B3 and B4 Audi's had a 2.0l Cabrio he was breaking and passed these on. Gent.

All snug where they should be in their new home. I replaced the seals too just for good measure since they were only a tenner each. Once in, I then took 20mm off the input shaft of the gearbox (Not the splines, just the narrow guide) and lined it up with the motor. A very doable ~20mm adapter plate to make up

Was going to go the cardboard template avenue but a couple of opportunities popped up. The first was, I had the CAD bell housing and bolt pattern for the Audi 012 gearbox no issues but when it came to the bolt pattern for the Gen 1 Leaf EM61 motor, nothing I could find that was opensource on any site or forum. Plenty of later EM57 CAD models out there but have a different pattern. In stepped the chance to use a mill to measure up the x and y's to create my own so, that's where I am at. The second was, someone I know who has been following what I am at is going to waterjet cut the plate Happy days.

So, in the middle of all these things going right, the mystery board reappeared from its holiday in Limerick after 5 weeks... with nothing done to it The man was just too busy and couldn't commit. I googled my socks off and as I have found during this project, places you never knew existed on your doorstep, make an appearance. I found a small outfit 20 mins away that took my board, so all that fine pitch soldering on the microcontroller I couldn't risk doing and will have it back to me next week! Good god it'll be worth the fee

Aside from that, I also got the Olimex ESP8266, an FTDI board plus a simple development board to play with also so need to get on all that.

Lastly, once the storms pass and I have a wind free, stress free, kid free day, I'll disassemble this bugger. I say wind free as, up on a hill here, there's a lot of friggin things knocking and rolling about in the wind as storm after storm passes through, well, you know, the more focus I have, the better!

So. With the throttle pedal location also on the fab list, building of a HV junction box, pulling and adding of wiring, etc, etc, the next few weeks are looking good. Hope to have things going back in after a bench test and at some point before the summer, having it rolling.

[Cookie6000]

Quick update
Got the board back. Lovely job done by Alan in www.PSRA.ie down in Rathnew with a quick turnaround too.

Settled down and added the remaining components to the board including the main connector block. After that I made up the connectors for the two molex plugs and labeled up the multi coloured wires from the spare Leaf loom.

having a problem now though after trying to get it running on the arduino IDE. I have posted it over on the specific Leaf Gen 1 Inverter Board thread if anyone can help me out.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=179&start=60

Thanks all

[Dilbert]

If it is the same as the GS450h ecu (i believe both were built at JLC), there may be issues around the two series resistors on the USB bus. The first units had 3.3 ohm resistors instead of 39 ohm resistors. I fitted some 33 ohm resistors (through-hole) and it worked fine. I think on your schematic it is R2 and R3.

Is the 5V / 3.3V power rails ok? some of the diodes were also populated backward, so they will conduct and pull down the power rail. You'll know as they will be warm to touch.

[Cookie6000]

Cheers dilbert
I'll check that out later on when I'm turning the crystal as JB suggested. Can the likes of the crystal take much abuse heating, reheating while making changes?

[Cookie6000]

Ah. Persistence.
Delighted to get past this milestone. With a bit of help from co Electric Ireland ev conversion course participant James@N52E01 who is working the same problems on his 'figleaf' project, I got the mk2 evbmw Leaf VCU to talk to me over the air via Johannes' web interface. V happy considering my basic level programming skills. Thanks to Dima and arber too for their great step by step guides in the flashing of the esp8266.

Looking forward now to hooking it up and seeing where it takes me. Hopefully some spinning output shafts

[Cookie6000]

Delighted to get to another milestone. We now have a spinning motor! But before we get there, let us take a wander through how I got there.

Prior to this, there was a lot of getting the Molex plugs all created using one of the two Leaf looms I had liberated from dead cars in the breakers yard any time I visited so I could have identifiable wires.

As posted in the previous log, I had managed to get the VCU all wired up and communicating as it should. The USB connection is very glitchy and getting it to connect via the IDE can sometimes mean swapping it from port to port to get it to maintain a stable connection. More the old USB cable and the ageing laptop I am using for testing then the board.

To go back a couple of weeks, I was hitting a brick wall where I would connect everything up - Inverter side and car (pedal) side but a number of things were not right.

1 - I was confusing where the 5vcc was coming from/going to. I found that the only way I could get the VCU to light up was to A: give it power from the USB cable or B: give it an external 5v power from a breadboard ps I had for setting up the FTDI and Olimex 8266 WiFi boards. As testing went on in tandem with James@N52E01 it became apparent that all was not right somewhere on my board. After some testing, I found some dry joints on the step-down regulator. My bad!

Once I gave all the legs a bit of heat and some more solder, voila. I was able to light up the board as it should from the 12v perm feed on the car side of the board.

It was in the midst of the testing that I then realised, that Pin 1 (GND) and Pin 3 (5vcc) are there to send 5v out to another bit of kit you may want to power like another DUE or Shield.

2 I was stuck on the throttle parameters. In hindsight, this was not a big issue and I could have progressed on with a bit of tuning after but well worth finding out exactly how to calibrate another throttle pedal to work with the evbmw Leaf VCU. Here is the thread and thanks again to Thatguyoverthere for showing us the way:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=179&start=80

3 Getting familiar with flashing the VCU and the code enabled me to take advantage of Damien's updated v1.5 VCU firmware that included precharge/main control, ISA Shunt monitoring and WiFi parameter interface via the Olimex ESP8266. So, at this point, I had everything correctly connected up on both the inverter side and 'car' side. The pedal hooked up to Ch 1, receiving 5v from the board and calibrated accordingly. 12v powering the VCU and inverter. Nothing was still happening even following the original procedure the code is based on from 8dromeda:
1. Switch on 12V power
2. Start sending CAN messages within 2s, preferably instantly
3. Finish precharging to at least 140V within 10s of switching the power on.
4. Continue sending CAN messages to control motor torque.
5. To shut down the inverter, make sure it has received the torque command 0 and
then just switch off the power supply.

It was then Thatguy.. again came in and helped out with our lack of coding literary skills He pointed out that in the latest firmware, there were a number of parameters set that needed to be met in order to have the CAN messages. In there, he mentions there is a provision to close the main contactor at 340V or higher (this voltage is read by the inverter and sent to the VCU as "inverter_volts" or something by that name over CANBUS). As a result of that, he advised to downgrade to the previous firmware rev, or change the DC voltage level at which the main contactor closes (in the software). For a quick fix, I went for the former and flashed the VCU with the v1.4 (pre Shunt/WiFi) and made the adjustments to the ThrotVal range.... first time I hit the precharge button... we have spin!

Ove the moon to have finally worked it out with some help from the forum. After a few times hitting the throttle only for it to kick out, I realised, I had been trying it on precharge only. Once I clicked the main contactor open on the Prius 220v pack, it came to life, spinning at what ever throttle level you gave it. I changed from CH1 to CH2 with the obvious noticeable differences in throttle position and response. As there was no resistance, the motor just takes off and does not settle unless you try it at low RPM and you notice it slow after getting up to a low rpm. I am guessing once I get the gearbox hooked up, with the resistance, the RPM will return after releasing the throttle.

Next step is to tweak the V1.5 firmware so I can make that work with what I have built in. One last point to note when running the version 1.5 was the web interface. I spent a lot of time flashing and reflashing the ESP8266 with Damiens firmware (after a lot of practice trying to install the in-the-end not needed Johannes web interface ) and successfully connected to the VCU via the ESP8266. Logged into the \admin screen, changes said, password and the name of the gui but then, we dont seem to get any info. Just remember, this was when myself and James across the water were using the v1.5 firmware that supported it. Is there a chance this does not work unless the inverter is sending CAN messages i.e. as in the v1.5 code, needs to be 340V or higher?

As it should be, working in the Bexus

As I write this, as it usually happens, I may have answered my own question. If I get my inverter to power up and start chatting with the changes to v1.5 flashed VCU (lowering the main DC voltage to ~200v from the Prius pack I am using for testing) should the CAN messages start flowing and therefore the web interface populate with lovely dials? Am I right @JB?

Anyway, happy to have made it this far and to have been able to bounce ideas back and forth with a fellow member to fault find all the way as James managed to get his motor spinning the next day! A lot of trial and error but you can see how I got there in my latest episode. Next task... adapter plate and coupler

[Cookie6000]

Seem to be making plenty of hay while the sun shines and plenty of time in the workshop. I am now well in the mindset that everything needs to start going back in the car now I have a proven bench test and I understand more and more as the days go by.

Hope to have an adapter plate and coupler made up in the next week or so. More recently, here is the update from the weekend when I spent a few hours extracting the battery modules from the 24kWh pack.

[RetroZero]

Love the progress!!

[Bratitude]

Seem to be making plenty of hay while the sun shines and plenty of time in the workshop. I am now well in the mindset that everything needs to start going back in the car now I have a proven bench test and I understand more and more as the days go by.

Hope to have an adapter plate and coupler made up in the next week or so. More recently, here is the update from the weekend when I spent a few hours extracting the battery modules from the 24kWh pack.

Looks like you printed one of the old coupler design I made, how did it fit on the gen 1 ?

[Cookie6000]

Yep, interested to see how it worked out. Very tight fit as I'm guessing the 3d printing tolerances are out buy about 0.2 ish? But imagine if a broaching tool was used to the same measurements it would be bang on. In the mean time, I'm trying out the Fiat Multipla 1.5 clutch I happened upon next door from my bro. Small bit of play and you can see the valleys of the Fiat splines are a mm or so deeper. That's it on the left, Audi on the right.

It will do for testing until I upgrade to something closer. How did your coupler go? Have they arrived?

[Bratitude]

Yep, interested to see how it worked out. Very tight fit as I'm guessing the 3d printing tolerances are out buy about 0.2 ish? But imagine if a broaching tool was used to the same measurements it would be bang on. In the mean time, I'm trying out the Fiat Multipla 1.5 clutch I happened upon next door from my bro. Small bit of play and you can see the valleys of the Fiat splines are a mm or so deeper. That's it on the left, Audi on the right.
20200418_170740.jpg
It will do for testing until I upgrade to something closer. How did your coupler go? Have they arrived?

I have an updated spline design I’ll send you to try.

would be awesome to have the couple work for both generations of motors

Haven’t arrived yet but should be soon!