[Driving] Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
Alibro
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

Bigpie wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:24 pm I'm redoing my fibreglass battery box. Cladding it with pvc sheets. Im really happy with the stuff. Lightweight, pretty tough and easy to work with. It's sold as hygienic wall cladding.
I had considering using fibreglass for my box but was concerned it is very flammable. PVC wall cladding sounds better, maybe not so bad that way.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

At the weekend I managed to get another couple of hours at this and have the connections for the battery box sorted.
You can't see it in these photos but I also have the studs welded in for securing the four large modules and nuts for the smaller.
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I bought a bag of M5 high tensile 10.9 bolts and I think the nuts are 8.8. I used spring washers on both sides as I am a little concerned about the copper crushing and loosening over time and I have some lock nuts to put on to prevent the nuts loosening.
To be sure to be sure to be sure. :p
The plastic pipe just happens to be for protecting buried electrical cable, it has danger high voltage on it :) and I'll probably do something to block off the ends but it is very strong as it is. I'll also cut the bolts back and use a couple of layers of heat shrink.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by LRBen »

RTV silicone is my go to for filling up spaces that wouldn't hurt being semi water tight. Builders outdoor silicone sealant is longer lasting but I use tons of RTV for work so that's what I usually have to hand.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

LRBen wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:50 pm RTV silicone is my go to for filling up spaces that wouldn't hurt being semi water tight. Builders outdoor silicone sealant is longer lasting but I use tons of RTV for work so that's what I usually have to hand.
Thanks mate, with my welding skills I'll need good sealant. :lol:

As the battery box will be made of steel and be under the car it will be subject to big temperature changes and therefore potential for condensation. For this reason I'm thinking of pumping air from the cabin into this and the other battery boxes but will be sealing it as best I can.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by JaniK »

I actually like your solution of hacking and using the OG copper wiring. May do "similar but different" 🥳👍
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

JaniK wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:42 pm I actually like your solution of hacking and using the OG copper wiring. May do "similar but different" 🥳👍
I was going to make up internal links using 25mm2 or 40mm2 cable but figured it would be easier to reuse the original connections. The walls of the box will be close to the terminals on the modules and the original connections are designed to fit in a tight space.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by raine »

Hi. Did you made any detailed drawings about the integration plate between the motor and Freelander gearbox? And for the motor mount brackets? I am considering a similar conversion of FL with Leaf tech. Btw, I am really enjoying in following your work. Thanks, Raine
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

raine wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:04 pm Hi. Did you made any detailed drawings about the integration plate between the motor and Freelander gearbox? And for the motor mount brackets? I am considering a similar conversion of FL with Leaf tech. Btw, I am really enjoying in following your work. Thanks, Raine
FL1 or FL2?
Sorry no detailed drawings. I made a cardboard template of the gearbox bell housing and used it to mark and cut out the main shape of the adapter. Then gradually marked and drilled to make it fit the gearbox before cutting out the hole and centering it as shown in the videos to fit the motor.
For the motor mounts I just made it up as I went along using lots of CAD.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

I have to admit I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this battery box frame is still not finished after many hours working on it. The space available is very complicated with lots of curves and bits sticking out never mind a rear diff that is mounted on rubber and can move so a simple box will not fit and I have to allow enough clearance for normal diff movement.
This means every time I think I have the shape sorted I realise I need to change something. On Sunday I finally I got it to the point where I was ready for a trial fit once the uprights were welded in. I lowered the rear subframe, secured it in place and found the bottom was a bit too close to the propshaft.
IMG_20210627_125219233.jpg
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I cut another 15mm off the height when I saw how close it was but this meant I had to change the way the small modules are secured. Originally I had welded nuts on the inside of the frame but this left the gap at the top of the modules too tight, so I had to cut and grind the nuts out and drill through the angle, tap it and weld nuts on the bottom.
To make matters worse I started with the intention of using M8 bolts or threaded rod but they fitted so tightly in the modules it left zero room for error in my marking and drilling. So after doing the usual mark it, drill it, find the hole has somehow moved, wiggle the drill around to make it fit then give up and use a bigger drill, I was left with big ugly holes and no easy way of welding the nuts to the bottom of the frame without possibly overheating the module. After messing up one side like this I decided to stop, weld up the holes and use the original M6 bolts. This gave much more room for the inevitable drill wander and I also had the sense to drill the holes the correct size to allow them to be tapped.
IMG_20210628_221910310.jpg
You can't see from this photo but after tapping the holes in the Angle I screwed bolts through the holes so they poked out the bottom a little, fitted nuts and then welded the nuts to the bottom to increase the thread depth and make it a little easier to seal the holes.
So now I finally have the modules secure I can finish the top of the frame and think about fitting the sides, after welding in another two uprights on the sides that is. The front of the lid will be higher than the back to allow for sticky out bits in the car.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

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They need a bit of grinding before the next stage of course. ;)
I'm thinking of investing in a new welder torch and hose as I find mine is very inconsistent. One second it is welding beautifully and the next it is spluttering and making terrible welds and the only reason I can see is I'm at a slightly different angle.
Any thoughts from you welders?
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by LRBen »

What welder do you have? I had a cheapy Clarke Welder for a while and that was never all that good. Got given a similar welder last year but it was from the 90s and seems to be a little better quality. The Clarke Welder is just used for gasless welding now in situations where we don't have time to wait for the wind to die down and we can't get it inside to weld.

I found investing in a good welding helmet also helped me improve allot. Turns out it really does help if you can see what you are welding! I do find myself on the R-tec website allot looking at the AC-DC tig welders though.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

LRBen wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:15 am What welder do you have? I had a cheapy Clarke Welder for a while and that was never all that good. Got given a similar welder last year but it was from the 90s and seems to be a little better quality. The Clarke Welder is just used for gasless welding now in situations where we don't have time to wait for the wind to die down and we can't get it inside to weld.

I found investing in a good welding helmet also helped me improve allot. Turns out it really does help if you can see what you are welding! I do find myself on the R-tec website allot looking at the AC-DC tig welders though.
It's a Clarke EN160 gas/gassless so not the cheapest but not the best either.
I have a good helmet which makes the world of difference to what I can see but it doesn't help when the welder is spluttering.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by SciroccoEV »

First of all, make sure you've got a really good earth clamp connection to the workpiece. Check your earth cable connections, all of them, right back inside the welder too.

The Clarke MIG welders are, or certaonly were, pretty good budget units.

If the transformer actually has enough Iron and Copper to perform well, then the performance comes down mostly to wire feed.
The hobby welders usually have a permanently wired torch, that will use a plastic liner. The wire not feeding smoothly through the liner is often a cause of trouble. You should keep a comple of replacement liners on hand and try a new one when you're having trouble. Make sure you prevent the reel of wire from rusting, the quality of the Copper coating on the wire makes a big difference, but keeping it very dry is the best solution.

Replacement hobby torches are surprisingly expensive. Fitting your welder with a Euro connector and industrial torch can help quite a bit. They use a spiral wound steel liner and feed much better.

The term MIG (Metal Inert Gas) is rather misleading. When you're using CO2 as a shielding gas, it decomposes in the arc and actually generates additional heat, which helps low current welders. The correct technical term for the process GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Welding). You get quite a lot of spatter with CO2 and an upgrade to an Argon/CO2 gas mix should result in much cleaner welds.

I've heard reports that "Pub gas" CO2 isn't always as dry as it could be. It's not going to affect the beer, but could give you grief when welding.

I bought a Chinese 200amp AC/DC more than a decade ago and it's given me no problems. I ended up using TIG more than MIG, bit I also upgraded to an R-Tech inverter MIG.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

SciroccoEV wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:01 am First of all, make sure you've got a really good earth clamp connection to the workpiece. Check your earth cable connections, all of them, right back inside the welder too.

The Clarke MIG welders are, or certaonly were, pretty good budget units.

If the transformer actually has enough Iron and Copper to perform well, then the performance comes down mostly to wire feed.
The hobby welders usually have a permanently wired torch, that will use a plastic liner. The wire not feeding smoothly through the liner is often a cause of trouble. You should keep a comple of replacement liners on hand and try a new one when you're having trouble. Make sure you prevent the reel of wire from rusting, the quality of the Copper coating on the wire makes a big difference, but keeping it very dry is the best solution.

Replacement hobby torches are surprisingly expensive. Fitting your welder with a Euro connector and industrial torch can help quite a bit. They use a spiral wound steel liner and feed much better.

The term MIG (Metal Inert Gas) is rather misleading. When you're using CO2 as a shielding gas, it decomposes in the arc and actually generates additional heat, which helps low current welders. The correct technical term for the process GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Welding). You get quite a lot of spatter with CO2 and an upgrade to an Argon/CO2 gas mix should result in much cleaner welds.

I've heard reports that "Pub gas" CO2 isn't always as dry as it could be. It's not going to affect the beer, but could give you grief when welding.

I bought a Chinese 200amp AC/DC more than a decade ago and it's given me no problems. I ended up using TIG more than MIG, bit I also upgraded to an R-Tech inverter MIG.
Thanks for your reply.
I've always used argo shield so at least I can rule that out.
I've always doubted the torch liner as it was damaged and repaired before I got it and the earth clamp has seen better days.
I've ordered a euro torch upgrade kit and new earth lead so will report back after fitting them.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by rjmcdermott81 »

Your battery box is looking great. I totally underestimated the amount of time I would spend on my battery box. It has taken quite a while to get it right.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

rjmcdermott81 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:39 pm Your battery box is looking great. I totally underestimated the amount of time I would spend on my battery box. It has taken quite a while to get it right.
You're not kidding. :( And I have two more to build when this is finished. :o
This is it after another couple of hours.
IMG_20210708_223114321 (1).jpg
Now to start the cladding.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

New earth lead fitted with a 400A clamp and 25mm2 cable. New Euro torch adapter kit on the way. I'll report back when I get it fitted.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

Euro Torch fitted and welding is now only poor because of me, not terrible because of me and the welder.

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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

With the welder now working properly I got a lot more done to the battery box.
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Then made the lid
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

The battery box is now painted and I'm now officially board of battery boxes so I decided to try and mount some of the stuff required under the bonnet.
I figured it best to install the radiator first as it has a fixed location and other stuff will have to work around it. I decided to use the Leaf rad as it is slimmer than the Freelander Rad and Leaf hoses and pumps are made for it.

I started by mocking it up to confirm location.
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Then made brackets to hold it.
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And sprayed them with zinc undercoat and stone chip
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by JaniK »

Cool! Really like how you made the L-profile and hammer bend on the lid.

And good to leave battery boxea for a while if they are making you feel not fun doing the car.

I started to make my box 1 and now I feel like I am overengineering it constantly and not actually doing it.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

JaniK wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:50 pm Cool! Really like how you made the L-profile and hammer bend on the lid.

And good to leave battery boxea for a while if they are making you feel not fun doing the car.

I started to make my box 1 and now I feel like I am overengineering it constantly and not actually doing it.
Thanks mate
I watched all of Project Binky so learned a bit from them and recently learned a load more from Fitzee's Fabrications. Bashing and welding is fun but it's time to move on. I've spent almost three months making one box which is just embarrassing.
Over engineering is not the worst thing, just keep at it and don't over think it. I would do some things different if I made this one again but it will do the job (hopefully). I still need to figure out how to support it and seal it but will worry about that later.
I'm trying to figure out where to place stuff under the bonnet now and have started with a frame made from angle steel.
IMG_20210904_174029750.jpg
I think I have room for two large modules on this level with maybe two more above and two below but this is still to be confirmed.
In the pic below I have an alternator in the approx position I plan to have it. The idea is to use it to drive the Freelander PS pump with a short belt using an ebike controller and 48V battery. This might prove to be a dumb idea but I'm going to give it a go, it seemed to work well when tested being much quieter than the Zafira pump.
IMG_20210904_165335963.jpg
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by JaniK »

Is this also going to be 3mm angle iron frame?
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by Alibro »

JaniK wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:13 am Is this also going to be 3mm angle iron frame?
All the angle I have is 3mm but some is wider than others so yes the frame will be 3mm angle.
I don't think I need it to be quite as overengineered though and may not have a complete skeleton. I might try to cut out the box in a single sheet and bend it at the corners, a bit like a cardboard box is made from one piece.
Having said that having a battery box at the very front of the car is not ideal from an accident point of view so it would be better being stronger.
I'll probably just make it up as I go along like usual. 8-)

On the power steering front I've been bouncing ideas off a mate in Landyzone and have decided to carry on with the ebike alternator and the Freelander OEM PS pump, It might prove to be stupid but it has a at least one advantage.
We talked about using a Corsa EPAS steering column but we felt it might damage the Freelander steering rack as it is not designed to have the steering forced from the column in that way.
So then the choices are a Zafira pump a commercial motor or my altimotor. The Zafira pump is very noisy and is a drain on the 12V system which ultimately means it shortens the range. Plus the one I have is now damaged due to a wee accident with a soldering iron. :?
Suitable commercial motors are hard to find so I'm going ahead with the Ebike Controller and Altimotor and for that I bought a new alternator last night.
IMG_20210911_092345658_HDR.jpg
It is a 180A VW alternator which is like new. I plan to add Hall effect sensors so that I can use it with a Sine Wave Controller and a permanent magnet so it is less drain on the battery.
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Re: Freelander EV With Gen1 Leaf electrics and EVBMW VCU

Post by JaniK »

Alibro wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:29 am .....

Having said that having a battery box at the very front of the car is not ideal from an accident point of view so it would be better being stronger.
I'll probably just make it up as I go along like usual. 8-)
.....
I woul propably atleast not make the front box "flimsier" than others.

Making up along the way is nice if ideas come to life.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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