openinverter forum

Has anyone attempted to use other OEM charge ports to enable CCS charging for conversions?

I'm specifically thinking about the Chevy Bolt at the moment, but any insights on feasibility for any OEM would be appreciated.

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:01 pm Has anyone attempted to use other OEM charge ports to enable CCS charging for conversions?

I'm specifically thinking about the Chevy Bolt at the moment, but any insights on feasibility for any OEM would be appreciated.

I'd be interested in working on this too, I just don't have a CCS vehicle to play with. We'd need a CCS vehicle and a look at the CAN traffic when charging/before charging.


I'll see if I can rent a Bolt somewhere. It's probably the most available vehicle with CCS, and has been in production for a while.
However first we need a source for charge ports w/controllers. That HomeGreen PHY PLC garbage is too complex for my liking. Any ideas where to grab some? Ebay seems to be useless, looking at Copart now.

-Isaac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gDILvW5yMg

11:30 and 26:58 - it seems that the CCS controller for the Bolt is integrated into some larger part, so it might not be usable on its own at all. I'll keep looking.

-Isaac

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:20 pm I'd be interested in working on this too, I just don't have a CCS vehicle to play with. We'd need a CCS vehicle and a look at the CAN traffic when charging/before charging.
-Isaac

I don't have one available either, though I might know someone. I'll ask around.

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:20 pm
That HomeGreen PHY PLC garbage is too complex for my liking.

-Isaac

I was taking a look at that yesterday. As I understand it the HomeGreen stuff is the basis of all CCS communication, and there are some vehicle side experimental (maybe? maybe I'm reading it wrong?) components available. https://www.codico.com/shop/en/powerlin ... tml?store=

But the more I looked, the more I realized I was getting out of my depth. My electronics/programming skills are just enough to get me in trouble, and I learn best by doing so staring at diagrams wasn't helping much.

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:20 pm Any ideas where to grab some? Ebay seems to be useless, looking at Copart now.
-Isaac

I saw two Bolt charge ports on ebay, and it appeared that they have at least part of the controls right on the plug. I'd pick one up to start messing around but I'm going to be buying a drive unit next week, so I'll have to wait a bit.

As I mentioned above, my programming skills are rudimentary at best (I'm an acoustical engineer) but I'm willing to be the tear stuff apart and try things guy if you and/or others want to/can help with the electronics.

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:41 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gDILvW5yMg

11:30 and 26:58 - it seems that the CCS controller for the Bolt is integrated into some larger part, so it might not be usable on its own at all. I'll keep looking.

-Isaac

Possibly. It looks to me like that distribution module as he puts it just includes the contactors 28:18 he says it goes directly through the module.

Looks like there might be at least some components attached to the port.

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:41 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gDILvW5yMg

11:30 and 26:58 - it seems that the CCS controller for the Bolt is integrated into some larger part, so it might not be usable on its own at all. I'll keep looking.

-Isaac

Possibly. It looks to me like that distribution module as he puts it just includes the contactors 28:18 he says it goes directly through the module.

Looks like there might be at least some components attached to the port.

Though he does mention the 12V harness is different, and the CCS control may be from a controller mounted under the seat.

Have you considered the Tesla Model 3/Y CCS interface (here)?

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:04 pm Have you considered the Tesla Model 3/Y CCS interface (here)?

Yes.

I brought up other OEMs because a) it was unclear if the Tesla one was progressing/successful, b) as I understood it the US Model 3's still only have the Tesla connector, and c) I thought it might be worthwhile to explore non-Tesla options.

Okay here's the port I've found:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-Chevrole ... Sw-~levOic

This seems to be just the physical connector, the locking solenoid, and attached wires.

Also available directly from Chevy (idk, maybe this is a parts dealer):
https://www.chevroletonlineparts.com/oe ... t-24290497

Part number 24290497 seems to be the one.


Maybe Hyundai Kona/Kia Niro will be helpful -- I'll look around and see what info there is.
i3 also has CCS. Any other EVs with CCS in the USA?

-Isaac

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:44 pm Any other EVs with CCS in the USA?
-Isaac

Not that I know of, but there should be a whole bunch coming in the next few years between GM's and VW's planned releases.

This was literally updated 3 days ago:

https://www.codico.com/shop/en/powerlin ... odule.html

Unfortunately not cheap, but does deal with the complex pieces, in theory.

Thankfully I'm not in a hurry for this, so we'll see where things play out.

-Matt

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:03 am This was literally updated 3 days ago:

https://www.codico.com/shop/en/powerlin ... odule.html

Unfortunately not cheap, but does deal with the complex pieces, in theory.

Thankfully I'm not in a hurry for this, so we'll see where things play out.

-Matt

That looks promising. The documentation is somewhat confusing but if I'm reading it correctly, it appears that the board is already configured to do the communication with the charging station, it'd just be a matter of getting it the correct CAN messages from the BMS. But I could be very wrong, please if someone else has a better understanding, I'd appreciate your two cents.

The price doesn't look too bad to me, especially compared to buying an OEM port and control board, plus whatever addition or replacement is needed to work with other batteries.

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:58 am The price doesn't look too bad to me, especially compared to buying an OEM port and control board, plus whatever addition or replacement is needed to work with other batteries.

Thats what I was thinking too, but it would still need something to mount that, and the charge port. So it will add up. If one would be able to fabricate a CCS controller and CCS socket combo for about 500€, that would be nice to get it under the normal gas tank flap. But as chademo seems easier to implement, I am thinking maybe of doing The johannes/touran style chademo for replacement of gas tank area and then do the AC Charging socket somewhere else. It all depends what is easier available when I am closer to the point of actually getting the car on the road and needing to charge it.

I've just paid 50 euro for another Tesla Model 3 CCS controller. Given Tesla have sold 120,000 Model 3 cars in Europe, and the part is also used in the Model Y, I don't see a supply problem anytime soon.

If you're putting effort into a project then why not start with the low cost part that has been used millions of times by Tesla owners?

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:34 pm I've just paid 50 euro for another Tesla Model 3 CCS controller. Given Tesla have sold 120,000 Model 3 cars in Europe, and the part is also used in the Model Y, I don't see a supply problem anytime soon.

If you're putting effort into a project then why not start with the low cost part that has been used millions of times by Tesla owners?

It's all about options, I'd say. Those of us in the US don't have access to such hardware to test with, so I don't think there's anyone available to work on it.

So I think having a 'plan B' is something good for those wanting to go down this road sooner.

That said, perhaps plan A is the JLD505 CHAdeMO, and plan B is Tesla CCS when available, and just hold off on CCS until then....

-Matt

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:40 pm Those of us in the US don't have access to such hardware to test with, so I don't think there's anyone available to work on it.

Ever heard of internet shopping

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:49 pm

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:40 pm Those of us in the US don't have access to such hardware to test with, so I don't think there's anyone available to work on it.

Ever heard of internet shopping

.... c'mon, you know that's not what I meant.

Sure, I can buy a CCS controller. And then what? I'm 100% certain it'd be ignored or do something bad to my Model 3 so it's not going in there.

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:53 pm Sure, I can buy a CCS controller. And then what?

You assemble the rest of the charge port ecosystem and start capturing CAN data. We're interested in the power on, steady state, and CAN traffic following stimulus such as charge fob presence.

Once that's done you can try replaying CAN logs to see how the interface reacts. We have access to a UK Model 3 with an EVTV CAN interface installed and the owner is keen to provide logs.

The purpose of this effort is to help increase our knowledge without all the work falling on myself or Damien once again. If you're genuinely interested in CCS then nothing is as affordable or stand alone as the Tesla solution.

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:01 pm

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:53 pm Sure, I can buy a CCS controller. And then what?

You assemble the rest of the charge port ecosystem and start capturing CAN data. We're interested in the power on, steady state, and CAN traffic following stimulus such as charge fob presence.

That is the crux of the issue, no? This implies there is an understanding of what is needed to do that, availabilty of test vehicle, and the correct equipment to capture the desired data.

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:01 pm Once that's done you can try replaying CAN logs to see how the interface reacts. We have access to a UK Model 3 with an EVTV CAN interface installed and the owner is keen to provide logs.

The purpose of this effort is to help increase our knowledge without all the work falling on myself or Damien once again. If you're genuinley interested in CCS then nothing is as affordable or stand alone as the Tesla solution.

Do you need someone to analyze the UK logs?

I think we all get that the work should not fall on two people. However, most do not have the lab setup that Damien has, that's for sure. I think the point of this thread was to find potential alternatives that explicitly didn't require him to spend time on it.

-Matt

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:13 pm
I think we all get that the work should not fall on two people. However, most do not have the lab setup that Damien has, that's for sure. I think the point of this thread was to find potential alternatives that explicitly didn't require him to spend time on it.

-Matt

Exactly. I was/am looking to see if anyone else had gotten started so we (the community writ large) could keep it moving. Since those of us stateside don't have a way to access to a complete Tesla with CCS, other OEM options are a good starting point.

Frankly at the moment I don't have access to any operational EV (come on, Tesla/GM/somebody release a coupe that I can trade in my Challenger for!) hence looking to see if anyone else had started. The hope was if someone had collected CAN data I could pick up parts and start on making it work outside of the OEM vehicle.

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:13 pm That is the crux of the issue, no? This implies there is an understanding of what is needed to do that, availabilty of test vehicle, and the correct equipment to capture the desired data.

If you read the Tesla CCS thread you'll find all the details you require. It's literally two parts that plug together and an interface that requires 5 wires. You do not need a test vehicle for most of this development.

If you want to start today capture some CAN logs with your Model 3 on charge, opening the charge port door, key fob, etc. Then start reverse engineering the CAN logs. A lot of the messages produced by the Charge Port ECU will be the same regardless of whether it has the CCS or Tesla Supercharger interface.

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:21 pm Since those of us stateside don't have a way to access to a complete Tesla with CCS, other OEM options are a good starting point.

You don't need access to a CCS car to do most of the development work because this is a CAN hacking task (see comments above).

The idea that other OEM cars will be easier is flawed... they integrate the CCS functionality to a much larger extent than Tesla.

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:44 pm

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:13 pm That is the crux of the issue, no? This implies there is an understanding of what is needed to do that, availabilty of test vehicle, and the correct equipment to capture the desired data.

If you read the Tesla CCS thread you'll find all the details you require. It's literally two parts that plug together and an interface that requires 5 wires. You do not need a test vehicle for most of this development.

If you want to start today capture some CAN logs with your Model 3 on charge, opening the charge port door, key fob, etc. Then start reverse engineering the CAN logs. A lot of the messages produced by the Charge Port ECU will be the same regardless of whether it has the CCS or Tesla Supercharger interface.

Ugh. I swore I was going to leave my model 3 alone...
I guess I'll go back to the other thread and read some more.
Is there a place that's relatively easily accessible to get to the bus wiring, or do I have to pull my rear seats?
Do we have a source for a cheap connector at least?

mdrobnak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:59 pm Is there a place that's relatively easily accessible to get to the bus wiring, or do I have to pull my rear seats?

You can buy the CAN tool you need from EVTV (here**).

**note two versions exist depending on the age of your car

Tool isn't needed. I have a ValueCAN 3 adapter.

The manual should tell me where the wires are though. All I need is the pinout and I'll figure out a way to get wires in there.

We'll see how this fits in with my other stuff.

-Matt