openinverter forum

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:34 pm**

Oh yes failure is all part of the learning process!

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:24 am**

Ev8 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:34 pm Oh yes failure is all part of the learning process!

Very much so!

More videos out now. I really should start writing some more as well but there just aren't the hours in the day and the videos seem to get a lot more interaction.

Anyway, parts 3 and 4 of the motor upgrade process are now live:

Part 3:

Part 4:

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:08 pm**

So I've just had the car off the road for a few weeks to swap the Outlander front motor for the larger outlander rear. Stuck with the Prius Gen 3 inverter. So far it has made...zero difference to performance. I have some issues with my new cooling loop that I will need to resolve before I can really test, but so far it seems the Prius inverter + OI really struggles to get much torque out of these motors.

I'll do some proper tests for comparison once I've sorted the cooling loop.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:15 am**

Have you maxed out throtcur?

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:44 am**

Have you tried increasing syncadv? Try increasing a couple of points at a time until you run into issues with unwanted acceleration then back it off, although this isn’t likely to increase torque at low rev, also what temperature derating have you got set? I know I’m on a gen2 inverter but it seems Toyota use an on chip temp sensor that reports an instantaneous chip temperature that will rise and fall very quickly compared to heat sink temperature and definitely trip you into derate if you’ve got things set to less than say 85degrees, I see instant temperature on chip of 80degrees but heat sink and coolant loop never goes more than a few degrees over ambient.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:10 pm**

johu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:15 am Have you maxed out throtcur?

Not changed it for the new motor but was running pretty high on the old one. Will check and confirm.
Thanks.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:11 pm**

Ev8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:44 am Have you tried increasing syncadv? Try increasing a couple of points at a time until you run into issues with unwanted acceleration then back it off, although this isn’t likely to increase torque at low rev, also what temperature derating have you got set? I know I’m on a gen2 inverter but it seems Toyota use an on chip temp sensor that reports an instantaneous chip temperature that will rise and fall very quickly compared to heat sink temperature and definitely trip you into derate if you’ve got things set to less than say 85degrees, I see instant temperature on chip of 80degrees but heat sink and coolant loop never goes more than a few degrees over ambient.

I haven't. Did a lot of testing with this on the old motor and as you say, doesn't do anything for the low end which is where it's really missing. But will definitely have a play with this as well.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:44 pm**

So, currently running throtcur 3.81 and syncadv 10. Will experiment with these when I next get a chance.

Noticed something else today due to an enforced test of using the reverse direction on the motor (gearbox selector failure): Absolutely no torque in reverse. It's trying to turn and if you pulse the throttle you can just about get it to move on the flat. But barely any power.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:36 pm**

Not sure what the maximum the gen3 can handle before tripping but I thought you’d paralleled up mg1 and mg2 so easily higher than 3.8, turn up the throcur until the inverter trips out then back it off a bit! No torque in reverse would indicate syncof value being wrong would it not? I would expect a properly synced motor to have the same torque in either direction

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:58 pm**

Could be. Had the same with the last motor though and spent ages tuning syncoffs on that one. As I say, more playing needed. Shall do a few laps of the neighborhood with the laptop! That was the plan for today with @bigpie but unfortunately had to fix the gearbox instead - and find him a fast charger that actually worked.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:06 pm**

With mg1 + 2 paralleled doesn't buy that much, then inverter shuts down due to temperature I think. Its reported temperature shoots up and down very quickly. I've got throtcur at 4 ish and that sometimes cuts out.

I'll need to come back over at some point for help with the coupler for the leaf motor upgrade.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:03 pm**

Amaz you can’t get more than 400 amps out of mg1 and mg2 paralleled, I know I’m running 2 motors not partalleled but on a gen2 inverter I can run throtcur of 3.5 on mg2 and 2.1 on mg1. I just thought the gen3 was supposed to be capable of a lot more than that, if temperature falls back as fast as it rises when coming off throttle then I don’t think you’ve got coolant issues

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:07 pm**

Also have you tried setting your syncof to the second dead spot it should be roughly 32500 points away from the other syncof value and the motor will rotate the opposite way once tuned. I have found though they don’t always behave exactly the same.

Posted: **Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:21 am**

I'll add that to the list of things to try. Ta!

Posted: **Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:15 am**

Ev8 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:03 pm Amaz you can’t get more than 400 amps out of mg1 and mg2 paralleled, I know I’m running 2 motors not partalleled but on a gen2 inverter I can run throtcur of 3.5 on mg2 and 2.1 on mg1. I just thought the gen3 was supposed to be capable of a lot more than that, if temperature falls back as fast as it rises when coming off throttle then I don’t think you’ve got coolant issues

Not 100% sure, but that's what it seems to be, anything over throtcur 4 causes very frequent cutouts, only thing logging brought up is the instantaneous temperature reported shoots up under throttle and shoots down when it cuts out. Another thing to bare in mind, when paralleling, mg1 + mg 2 current goes through the MG2 current sensors, maybe the inverter has logic monitoring this too?

Posted: **Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:25 am**

Bigpie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:15 am Not 100% sure, but that's what it seems to be, anything over throtcur 4 causes very frequent cutouts, only thing logging brought up is the instantaneous temperature reported shoots up under throttle and shoots down when it cuts out. Another thing to bare in mind, when paralleling, mg1 + mg 2 current goes through the MG2 current sensors, maybe the inverter has logic monitoring this too?

Current sensors are not connected to Toyota gate driver, only to openinv logic board.

Posted: **Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:05 pm**

First test: throtcur. Got up to about 4.5 without excessive cutouts. At 5 the inverter trips as soon as you push the throttle. Could maybe get there with more aggressive cooling - my current setup has issues and I have parts on the way to cure that.

Definitely a bit more pull at 4.5 than 3.8, as you'd expect. But still not exactly quick.

Posted: **Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:24 pm**

Second test: syncofs. Set it to 32767 (half way-ish) and the change was really interesting. Forward was a little bit juddery but perfectly driveable. Less powerful than with it set to zero, but OK.

The big change was reverse: plenty of torque with the direction switch set to reverse. More torque (I think) than I had going forwards with it set to zero.

Definitely some tuning required but I'm thinking some experimentation with the order of the phase cables and syncofs might yield some good results.

I'll test syncadv when I can go a bit faster (testing in the 20mph limit around my house today).

Thanks for all the input.

Posted: **Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:46 pm**

bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:24 pm Second test: syncofs. Set it to 32767 (half way-ish) and the change was really interesting. Forward was a little bit juddery but perfectly driveable. Less powerful than with it set to zero, but OK.

The big change was reverse: plenty of torque with the direction switch set to reverse. More torque (I think) than I had going forwards with it set to zero.

Definitely some tuning required but I'm thinking some experimentation with the order of the phase cables and syncofs might yield some good results.

Try changing motor phases and find new syncoffs value. Sounds like you have forward where you have to have reverse. Have been experiencing something like that myself.

Posted: **Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:36 pm**

My videos are rather out of sync with the discussion on this thread now, but here's the latest one:

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:42 pm**

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:36 pm**

Any chance you’ve got a link to the simpbms code your using with bmw modules and Outlander charger? My code doesn’t support the outlander charger and I e just picked one up super cheap!

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:54 pm**

is the video from my side

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:11 am**

Ev8 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:36 pm Any chance you’ve got a link to the simpbms code your using with bmw modules and Outlander charger? My code doesn’t support the outlander charger and I e just picked one up super cheap!

I *think* I'm using this one: https://github.com/jamiejones85/BMWPhevBMS

Not sure if this has the Outlander charger code in it (I think it does) as my canbus issues meant I never got this bit working and haven't looked at it in a while

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:29 pm**

Yes that has the outlander charger, thanks guys saves me a job

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