[DRIVING] - Z3(00)

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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bobby_come_lately
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

tmotion wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:00 pm Have a look at the bertini gt25 kit. Thats still on my conversion list!
It's really nice! I'm going to do the Z300 and then a GT I think - summer and winter cars!
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Re: Z3(00)

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Jack Bauer wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:40 am Excellent work:) Don't talk to me about bmw handbrakes. My first insurance on a conversion back in 2011. 3,500 euros third party.
ooft!
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Boxster EV wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:27 pm Excellent work. Z3 definitely a modern classic and will be a great daily driver in EV form. I’m amazed at your insurance costs - bonkers.
Living in Manchester has to have at least one downside ;-)
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Re: Z3(00)

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Decided not to edit it in the end. The 'clip' you can hear my wife talking about is a wheel chock I forgot to move! The other scraping is just rusty brake discs and some slightly bent tinware.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Mouse »

Jack Bauer wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:18 am So in the E36 builds that I have done the brake / ABS works without any Engine/gearbox input. However I did have a 2000 E36 compact briefly that seemed to be a bit of E36 and E46 mixed together so it may need some dme can to keep everything happy. If so its well hacked and you can copy whats on the E46 class from the vcu repo.
Not sure if it's relevant here but this reminds me of when I worked on an MK5 Astra conversion a few years ago and the electric Power Steering wouldn’t work without the engine running.
I spoofed the original engine RPM by mounting the original camshaft pickup sensor on the motor shaft with a magnet which got the dash to work but showing twice the RPM. Then using the power of Arduino detected when the motor was stopped or below a certain RPM and produced a 'tickover' output to fool the car system + power steering the engine was running. There was something about having to 'start' the engine by providing a higher RPM for a few seconds when first turning the ignition on. The Arduino also provided a divide by 2 to get the car dash to display the correct RPM.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Cookie6000 »

bobby_come_lately wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:12 pm
Decided not to edit it in the end. The 'clip' you can hear my wife talking about is a wheel chock I forgot to move! The other scraping is just rusty brake discs and some slightly bent tinware.
Superb! Nice one Tom! Taking away the rusty brakes, it's so smooth. Great feeling getting that first drive in. Keep it lit! Itching to get mine back on the road. Life has taken over again and the BMS is all that is holding me up but just need a full day to sort it.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Mouse wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:59 pm
Jack Bauer wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:18 am So in the E36 builds that I have done the brake / ABS works without any Engine/gearbox input. However I did have a 2000 E36 compact briefly that seemed to be a bit of E36 and E46 mixed together so it may need some dme can to keep everything happy. If so its well hacked and you can copy whats on the E46 class from the vcu repo.
Not sure if it's relevant here but this reminds me of when I worked on an MK5 Astra conversion a few years ago and the electric Power Steering wouldn’t work without the engine running.
I spoofed the original engine RPM by mounting the original camshaft pickup sensor on the motor shaft with a magnet which got the dash to work but showing twice the RPM. Then using the power of Arduino detected when the motor was stopped or below a certain RPM and produced a 'tickover' output to fool the car system + power steering the engine was running. There was something about having to 'start' the engine by providing a higher RPM for a few seconds when first turning the ignition on. The Arduino also provided a divide by 2 to get the car dash to display the correct RPM.
That's absolutely it but in this case it's a canbus input it needs. I have a spare teensy coded up with a pared down version of Damien's VCU code that just spams the system with the relevant values for now. Later I will link it in to inputs from the inverter so that I can get tacho output etc.

Apparently aspects of the cluster can also be recoded to take can input rather than analogue/direct digital. Still looking into that but be nice if I could make that work, or swap it with a later one that might.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Cookie6000 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:13 pm
bobby_come_lately wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:12 pm
Decided not to edit it in the end. The 'clip' you can hear my wife talking about is a wheel chock I forgot to move! The other scraping is just rusty brake discs and some slightly bent tinware.
Superb! Nice one Tom! Taking away the rusty brakes, it's so smooth. Great feeling getting that first drive in. Keep it lit! Itching to get mine back on the road. Life has taken over again and the BMS is all that is holding me up but just need a full day to sort it.
Cheers Fiachra! MOT booked in for tomorrow morning. It's going to fail but hoping not on too much.

Cranking throtcur up to 4, maybe 5 for the drive over there. That should be fun.

Completed a manual charge yesterday using SavvyCan to control the Outlander Charger. Then last night found the issue in a tweaked version of the BMS code that should allow me to automate that process.

Today: bleed the brakes for a third time, sort out a wiring issue with my charge/run modes (understood but not fixed yet), and see if I can turn off those last error lights.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Fixed everything but the error lights today. Brakes sorted. Reversing lights sorted (which I didn't know were a problem until yesterday). Suspension adjusted a bit to give a bit more ground clearance. Wiring sorted on my run/charge modes. And a bit of a tidy of the engine bay. Not going to pass. Just keeping fingers crossed for nothing structural.

Wish me luck!
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by RetroZero »

Good luck
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

RetroZero wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:56 amGood luck
Cheers!

So, as predicted, it failed. But not on what I was expecting. Or rather, the stuff I was most worried about (the conversion, my welding) absolutely sailed through. In fact, Jimmy the mechanic called the conversion "impressive". The smile hasn't left my face since.

Big issues:

- Tracking is massively out (not surprising since I don't have the tools for alignment) and you could tell this on the drive over there
- Brake servo isn't working. Clearly my fix of the vacuum leak didn't hold.

Little stuff: bit of sharp-edged rust on the body (soon to be replaced) needs covering up. Need a new sidelight bulb. Couple of nuts need nipping up. and I need to reset the airbag light (forgot about that - plugged the battery in with the seat removed).

Will try to get all that fixed over the weekend and get it in for a retest next week.

Absolutely buzzing about the drive over there still. So much fun.

Few issues to sort with tuning though. Car stalled a couple of times with over current events and wouldn't get off the rolling road without a shove. I suspect there are just some simple setting tweaks to sort this though.

Onwards!
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Got a phone call from one of the BBC 5live producers I work with yesterday asking if I'd come on Stephen Nolan's late night show to talk about the project. Very brief chat at 11:55pm (yawn) but can be found here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000y7sd
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Bigpie »

Translates to 1h55 to skip to. Nice to get Open Inverter mentioned.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Mouse »

bobby_come_lately wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:57 am That's absolutely it but in this case it's a canbus input it needs. I have a spare teensy coded up with a pared down version of Damien's VCU code that just spams the system with the relevant values for now. Later I will link it in to inputs from the inverter so that I can get tacho output etc.
Good to know. I really will have to learn some CAN bus if I'm going to continue playing with this sort of thing.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Mouse wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:59 am
bobby_come_lately wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:57 am That's absolutely it but in this case it's a canbus input it needs. I have a spare teensy coded up with a pared down version of Damien's VCU code that just spams the system with the relevant values for now. Later I will link it in to inputs from the inverter so that I can get tacho output etc.
Good to know. I really will have to learn some CAN bus if I'm going to continue playing with this sort of thing.
It's pretty crucial it turns out. Satisfying when it works, frustrating as hell when it doesn't.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

If you've been following my blog or social media, you'll know by now that the retest did not go well. Full version here: https://projects.tomcheesewright.com/20 ... a-bad-way/

Short version: I screwed up the tracking but that was the least of my issues. The car stalled when the mechanic drove it and wouldn't restart until I ran down the road and turned it off and on again. And my coupler started making a hell of a racket that undermined his faith that it was safe the for road.

Gutted, I gutted the car that afternoon and found a clearly not straight coupler. Given that the precision tool I made it with was a lump hammer, this might not surprise anyone.

Anyway, fellow forum member has kindly offered to run it past a friendly machinist and try to get me a straight version made up. So fingers crossed that will be sorted. But the stalling out is worrying me.

For reference I'm running a Prius Gen 3 inverter with one of Damien's boards and the front motor/generator from an Outlander PHEV along with FOC firmware version 4.95. I'm not running the latest version because I couldn't make it work - something I've been meaning to flag and was going to test again once I had the car all running.

Unfortunately I don't have any logs. The OI interface wasn't loading up on my way over there and I was in too much of a funk to do a capture on the way back. But I can tell you there's nothing in the error memory.

The symptom is like this: I'll push the throttle and all of a sudden torque just disappears and the car starts to freewheel. If I release the throttle and then push again, most of the time it comes back. But sometimes I have to completely stop the car, and turn the key off and on again before it will go.

Appreciate any thoughts as to what might be happening. Key parameters from memory (car is in bits at the moment) are throtcur 4.5 and throtramp: 40. curki is at 3000 I think, per someone else's post about these motors on here.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Jack Bauer »

So I have a siemens 1pv5135 induction motor and a Gen 3 inverter in the E39 so I can offer some insights. The issue you describe is caused by the Toyota engineers shutting down the power stage. The logic board receives this signal from the gate driver and shuts down the pwm generation in the STM32. If you reapply the start signal, the inverter should restart and resume drive. From what you describe I imagine you have trip mode set to "autorestart" so when you release throttle it automatically restarts. Now to the causes :

1)TEMPERATURE!!! I can drive the E39 with no coolant flow. Don't ask me how I know this but it is pure pain. Those Toyota engineers simple will not allow me to do something that will destroy the power stage and will constantly shut down the drivers and STM32. So, check you have good coolant flow. I thought I was fine with a silly little Bosch pump. Upgraded to a much larger 12v electric coolant pump from a 120d (30 euros from a scrap yard) and the effect is night and day.

2)TOO MUCH BOOST. Apply too much current at low RPM will cause a desat and shutdown as per above. In FOC this is controlled by different parameters. Took me a few days of tuning in the drive way to dial it in but I can now floor the throttle from a standstill in a high gear and not trip. Sounds like you need to do the same.

3)FREQUENCY/DEADTIME. Please tell me you are running at 4.4kHz and at least 120 deadtime .........
I'm going to need a hacksaw
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Re: Z3(00)

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I'm going to need a hacksaw
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

You are as ever sir, a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you. I can say yes to 3, but:
1) I am running said silly little Bosch pump. In fact, a Chinese clone of such. Sounds like this definitely needs an upgrade.
2) Definitely sounds like more tuning required. I don't have much of a driveway to test on but will find some space before the next test.

This is really cheering to have some direction. Much appreciated.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Bigpie »

Out if interest, Damien, I don't recall seeing a radiator in your videos, what sort of size do you use? We're using small motorcycle sized radiators.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by arber333 »

Bigpie wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:04 pm Out if interest, Damien, I don't recall seeing a radiator in your videos, what sort of size do you use? We're using small motorcycle sized radiators.
If you combine multiple functions into one cooling system i recommend low radiator with integral tank. I got one of those from old Fiat Uno or Panda cars, year 88... Maybe some other small cars have such...
It is still plenty od capacity but low profile. Those cars usually had small fans too.
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Jack Bauer »

I use a cheap 11 row oil cooler from ebay mounted behind the grille. No fans required. Drive faster=more power=more heat=more cooling air.
I'm going to need a hacksaw
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Re: Z3(00)

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Jack Bauer wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:00 pm Drive faster=more power=more heat=more cooling air.
Like the camel who died in the middle of desert. I bet it froze to death the way it was speeding before it colapsed :).
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Usual disclaimer that I write this for my blog and it's shared on a couple of forums so some stuff might seem a bit noddy here. Anyway...

##

So, things ended on a bit of a low just before I went on holiday a few weeks ago. The second run at an MOT ended in disaster. But my optimism was quickly restored and before I left, I posted some parts off to people for help.

One of those parts has come back sorted, albeit in need of reassembly. That’s the Battery Management System, now speaking CAN on all four possible interfaces (though I only need 2) - thank you Jamie. This should allow me to charge automatically, rather than sitting plugged into the car controlling things manually. Bonus.

Recoupling
The other part was the coupler, with which another friend couldn’t help. But in some ways I was quite pleased by this. I like the idea of doing it all myself. So, I did what any normal person would do: built a machine shop in the back yard.
workbench under construction.jpeg
I bought a workbench and boxed it in with waterproof OSB and a felted roof into a sort of mini shed. Well, I say ‘mini’. You may not be able to get inside it but it is 2.4m long and now contains a pillar drill, lathe, chop saw, bench grinder, vice and welding station.
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The lathe is nothing special: the most expensive, cheap Chinese beastie I could justify. First experiments have been reasonably promising and with some practice (it’s 25 years since I used a lathe) and some additional kit, I reckon I can make up a straight coupler.
lathe.jpeg
The process is much like last time, just with a little more precision:

- Cut and square a section of tube. Clean it up inside and out on the lathe
- Machine a spindle that fits tightly through the Ford clutch centre (that fits the motor splines) and BMW clutch centre (that fits on to the gearbox)
- Machine the outer diameters of the clutch centres so that they fit inside the tube
- Assemble the tube, splines and centres to ensure that everything aligns
- Weld it all together

I’m just waiting on a new profiling tool and some bar stock to make the spindle/alignment tool, then I can get this done. In the meantime I’ve already done a practice run. Even without the alignment tool, this is already much straighter than my first one. And thanks to the practice at welding and fabricating, much tidier.
new coupler.jpeg
Using my new dial gauge (it has been an expensive few weeks), this one is out by roughly +/- 0.4mm at the end of the tube. This is about the same as the amount of slop created by the splined connector at this range. If I can halve this I’ll be reasonably happy.

Moar POWAH!
In the meantime I’ve been working on some other upgrades, starting with the inverter.

To date I have only been using half of its outputs – so called ‘MG 2’. But my control board supports me driving MG1 as well and bridging the outputs. This requires some simple soldering of jumpers on the control board (done) and then bridging the phase outputs on the inverter itself (half done).
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I’m using short lengths of 20mm2 wire for this, and fabricating copper connectors on each end. This is a bit of a pain of a job, but I’m getting there. Five connectors down and one to go. And some tidying. I want to clean up all the connectors and maybe add some more insulation, assuming it will fit inside the case.

Improving communication
Perhaps it won’t surprise anyone that the range of the Wi-Fi connection from the inverter control board is a little bit limited, what with it being encased in an aluminium box. There has also been shown to be an issue with the current draw from the Wi-Fi module causing instability in the current sensor readings – one of many possible reasons for my inverter tripping out.

To fix both of these issues I decided to follow some other forum members and relocate the Wi-Fi module outside of the inverter housing and at the same time add a dedicated power supply to take the load off the control board. I had a cheap buck converter lying around so just wired this into the 12V supply from the AMPSeal connector. And there was plenty of space in my AMPSeal housing to site both the Wi-Fi module and the power supply. Some cloth tape added to the IDC cable should prevent any damage from friction.
wifi module.jpeg
Keeping it cool
Per my last update, I’m also working on keeping the inverter cool. This has multiple components:

- Relocating the radiator a bit higher to reduce the chance of air in the system
- Upgrading the pump to increase the flow rate
- Adding fans to maximise air flow (though I know you do without them @JackBauer I'm taking a belt and braces approach)

I haven’t started the first part yet as the inverter is in pieces. But my new workbench should make that easier (did I mention I also have a metal bending tool out there?).

Pumps
The second bit has been a bit of trial and error. The Pierburg pump recommended is upwards of £300 new and over £100 used in any decent condition. They are also, I learned from browsing around, prone to failure, which means I didn’t want an older one.

I gambled on another BMW pump (a Bosch PAD unit) on eBay (pictured) but I think it’s probably too puny to be an upgrade. So now I’m waiting on a Bosch PCE unit out of a VW that should fit the bill. (I spotted this recommendation on another thread on here).
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Fans
Being a hoarder with a history of PC-building, I have a lot of fans. I selected a couple of powerful 12V 90mm server units from my collection to keep the radiator cool. These are PWM controlled, though for now I’ll just run them at default speed. Down the line they can be made responsive to thermostat temperature, when I have a proper vehicle control unit (VCU) doing big brain stuff like that.

To mount them to the radiator I designed and printed a simple flat panel that bolts to the existing radiator.
fans and radiator.jpeg
The ‘To Do’ list
I took our two other cars (soon to be one) into the garage for MOTs the other day and the owner Jimmy told me I left another puddle of ATF behind at the last attempt. I think the motor itself is leaking, so that needs addressing before the next attempt. As well as redoing the layout of the motor cooling system to make it more accessible.

If I can get away with not modifying the adaptor plate this time, I will. I had planned to trim it down a bit and clean it up. If I have to take the gearbox out then I might still do this. But actually I think I might be better just making a new one and swapping them out once the car is running. With everything I know now I could make it much lighter and neater.

But the main thing now is to get this car on the road. Some changes in the kids’ weekend activities means that now we unexpectedly need two cars again, just as I have found a buyer for my Alfa. This means it might be challenging to do the body swap as planned this winter, unless I can take a week off and get the car stripped and road legal again in that time.

There is also the challenge of the garage. I got so close to getting one I thought, but the owner just stopped responding to my calls and messages. So I need to re-open that hunt. Certainly before I launch into…

The next project
Yes, I know, this one isn’t finished yet (and will likely never be truly ‘finished’). But somehow over the last year and a bit, I have accumulated pretty much all the parts to build a second EV. And I’m really keen to put everything I have learned to use. So at some point, I want a second donor car.

This will obviously need somewhere to live (a garage), so I won’t be buying anything until I have that. But I do have pretty much everything else. I picked up a rear motor from an Outlander for a good price over summer. I already had the matching inverter, a second battery pack, and most of the ancillaries, including everything for a high voltage junction box (which I built for the original car but ended up not using.

Alongside getting the actual car running, I’ve started prepping these parts for assembly as well. This includes things like replacing the knackered connectors on the inverter, which looks like it might have been in a fire (though it seems to work fine – I tested it last year).
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To this end I’ve designed up an adaptor plate to mount some cheap AliExpress-sourced waterproof connectors I’ve come to quite like.
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This is just the beginning though. The plan is to get the second set up fully running in my workshop – with charging, cooling and everything – so that it can be transplanted straight into either the existing car as an upgrade (the new motor has perhaps better torque characteristics), or into the second car if/when I have space for that. This will also give me something to work on (because I’m so short of projects to consume my time) in the wet winter months when it’s hard to get out and work on the car itself.

Unless I can finally get a garage…
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Re: Z3(00)

Post by Ev8 »

Nice work, I’ve just picked up an old myford lathe to help as I start working on the dc to ac swap for my RX8 I can sympathise with you lack of workspace I have a small corner in a friends garage I do electrical jobs for and an unpowered lock up garage that you can’t access with a car! But we do what we can with the space available right!
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