[DRIVING] Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter  [FINISHED]

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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by johu »

I had many let downs like this with Polo back in 2013. I was so disappointed that I let a friend call around until he got a satisfying answer. He made many calls, but in the end was successful. I went back to the same guy with Touran. Who inspected your Mazda?
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by muehlpower »

After everything i read in the forum i am happy to be in Germany. In England it seems to be difficult to be classified as EV, in France everything has to be certified for a lot of money, in Switzerland you cannot have more performance than the original car. We have an information sheet from the TÜV with reasonable rules and are tax-free after the conversion.
Would it be possible to register your car in Germany and then import it as an electric car to Slovenia?
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

arber333 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:51 pm I will probably go to Munchen for TUV.
Do you know the folks from the Metron Institute? I met them many years ago in Slovenia and they might be willing to help :)
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

Kevin Sharpe wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:35 pm
arber333 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:51 pm I will probably go to Munchen for TUV.
Do you know the folks from the Metron Institute? I met them many years ago in Slovenia and they might be willing to help :)
Yes actually i know Andrej. It is not like i couldnt bend some rules to get there. I would like to get a straight conversion. It is just the lack of interest and lack of support from regulators that got to me. I am actually one of them. I regulate aviation. And i never thought it to be that bad. Not since 2013 when i converted MX3. Back then people were actually interested in EVs. But same people that got my Mazda legal are now scared of EVs.
EDIT: Correction scared of HV EVs.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

Back to actual conversion...
I guess throttle sensor was not the main culprit for "engine overheat" error displayed on dash.

How do i know that? Well i managed to connect throttle sensor and oil temp probe. Now after a longer time of "motor running" i still get "engine overheat" warning and STOP sign on the dash. At first glance it looks like a missing temp sensor. But when i try and follow what happens with sensors i see engine coolant temperature dial slowly rise from its corner up to 70deg! When it comes to about 1/3 warning happens and cooling fans start to blow at full speed.
I dont understand the logic behind this. I have a legitimate temp sensor connected to BSM on previous lines. I connected that directly to calm down BSM and also to have indicator for coolant temperature. I really didnt expect for the needle to move by itself.

But this happens only if i simulate engine RPM with my arduino. Any ideas? Are there more temp sensors?

I found in transmission training manual that one can use like 400ohm testing connection to test fan deploying function of transmission. Maybe that is happening because i dont have any ohm value connected. I will try to show it 1Kohm and see what happens.
Maybe i will be able to use this logic to manualy deploy fans at the time of my choosing.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by damian.lo »

Look if You have more than one temp sensor - in my car are 2 - one in engine and second on cold tube from cooler.
There isn't also any cooling fluid flow sensor, fluid pressure sensor etc.?
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

damian.lo wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:57 pm Look if You have more than one temp sensor - in my car are 2 - one in engine and second on cold tube from cooler.
There isn't also any cooling fluid flow sensor, fluid pressure sensor etc.?
I am not so sure now that i read about some transmission test protocol. I think it is something in ECU software to allow it to test overheat condition.
Today i will wire one 1K resistor onto connector wires. Also i see i will need to wire 6R to solenoid wires so the system will think it AT works :).
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

Good news! I was at the TUV sud (MOT inspection) and the car was generaly good.
Man they were thorough!

Here is a list of some of the demands they made:
1. All HV cables visible need to be in orange colour (or shroud). I used orange tubing...
2. Additionaly all HV wires need to be fixed into place, not subject to vibration, i use metal clamps wrapped in some heatshrink tube
3. All HV cables going through metal walls (boxes) need to be fixed/gripped by plastic gromets so vibration would not chaff the cable insulation
4. All items need to be firmly gripped, bolted on, plastic ties etc...
5. Battery box covers need to be sealed! I am talking of O-ring or window seal.
6. Battery box needs to be insulated on the inside where battery sits. Especially the cover. I used Tesla battery separators to insulate metal under my cover. I glued it with black car gasket glue.
7. Batteries need to be firmly installed inside box. They check that by hand!
8. HV connectors on the outside the car need to be waterproof IP65 rating.
9. All connectors that can be dissassembled by hand only, need to be protected by another cover.
10. All components installed need to have visible labels or one needs to present them with a photo evidence. Guess what... i need to make a photo of my inverter cover plate!
11. They make a test drive
12. There has to be an emergency plan. Like a drawing on the HV cable routing and location of HV devices and emergency switches etc... it is called "Rettungsplan"

They raised some findings though. Mainly on my finishing work.
I have to present them with evidence i repaired that and my car will be legal.

The one finding i recognised the most serious is the "open door beeper". Regulation says it needs to beep if key is ON and doors are open. This is to notify the driver of the working vehicle since EV does not produce any sound when standing still.
Originaly Pug has a beeper which does beep ONCE if you open the door, but that is not enough. Sound needs to be continuous. I guess i missed that.

My plan is to fit a piezo speeker under the drivers seat and it will be wired to ignition and to the door.
My only problem is how the door knows it is open? I cant see any switches on the door or on the frame. Does anyone know of where that would be located on a 406 coupe?

I need to connect to incoming side of the switch and my beeper will chime..
Or maybe i need to connect the the door light under/inside the door? It is only lit when door is open is it not? Hm...
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

arber333 wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:56 am I cant see any switches on the door or on the frame. Does anyone know of where that would be located on a 406 coupe?
Looks like a push switch on the frame below the front door hinge (this video says it's a 406 coupe but that could be wrong) :?
Screenshot 2020-07-28 at 11.02.07.png
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by mdrobnak »

Awesome to hear you're most of the way there. Definitely some good ideas from the TUV for safety. Thanks for sharing the requirements and how you met (or will meet) them.

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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by Isaac96 »

Maybe you can trace back the wiring for the other beeper? Then just put your own in.

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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

I already installed beeper in the drivers door. It chimes annoyingly if you open the door. This should do for now. Later on i will find one 12V contact supply wire that will work only when key is turned. I believe windows are powered only if you insert the key. I will steal one wire there.

Further list of demands:
13. There is a demand to declare battery box content in battery cell configuration and in kW. I made stickers on the cover.
14. Maximal voltage is derived from that parameters. I surprised them when i declared lower maximal voltage they expected. I explained them i will not charge more than 4.05V per cell and that ammounts to 389Vdc. They expected 4.2V per cell.
15. Also they demand battery box has a vent on the lowest part to vent gas that may form inside box. I used 2x regular 8mm tire vents and simply bolted them from the inside out.
16. Also all removable battery box covers, battery boxes, DCDC, Charger, inverter and motor that is not welded in need to be connected to car chassis by 6mm2 discharge cable. I used braided copper cable shield from some cables that i took apart for signals. In any case you need good connection between motor - inverter- chassis because of signal immunity!
17. You need to weigh an empty car when conversion is complete. I did it at a scrap yard where they can also issue you some official receipt. Mine is now 1.450Kg whereas with old gas guzzler it was 1.650kg! Quite an improvement over all hydraulic ATX and large 3,0L V6 engine.
18. We derived max speed from motor max declared RPM divided by final drive ratio. I think it is 158km/h which is still respectable i think.

If i remember from my Mazda, our TUV was not as thorough in 2013.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

In other news i found out what was bothering my Pug drivetrain. It was not only a bearing support.
The left inside CV joint has a halfh siezed bearing. In by itself i couldnt determine that since the wheels had so little resistance when lifted up. It was only when my friend an i tried to rotate both wheels simultaneously we noticed the LH side was grabbing the differential. I noticed a slight tick in the CV joint when turning outside of allignment. I guess this was something that was declaring itself before failure.
I will need to take that CV apart, inspect the bearings and the outer surface. Maybe it will be enough to just replace the one bearing. If not i will need to change the whole Leaf CV bucket.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

Now we are very close to making Pug road legal!
I have applied to Slovenian DMV office and my application got accepted. I also passed another visual inspection and test drive :). As the TUV wasnt enough... Now i am waiting for the system to release my car as EV so my insurance agent can make me a modified policy. I hope to be roadworthy and driving by next week. YAY!

Then comes the chademo equipment!
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by johu »

So you will get it road legal with TÜV and Slovenian authority interworking?

Did you ever have to drive to Munich again?
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

johu wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:26 pm So you will get it road legal with TÜV and Slovenian authority interworking?

Did you ever have to drive to Munich again?
I took it there once. They gave me 5 findings that i had to resolve. The most serious fault they considered insufficient driver sound alert. They allowed me to send them video and photo evidence of rectified findings. I had it solved in a day or so anyhow. Then they sent me the TUV and surprisingly a technical inspection receipt. You know the brakes and lights...
Both certificates are recognised in Slovenia. They still had to do a visual inspection and i gave them my technical report again. But now they are content.

After the smoke clears and my car is legit i will go on the offensive. I will try to get option to make individual HV EV conversion legal in Slovenia. There seems to be some exceptions to the UN ECE R100 R2 EMC/EMI rules at least in some EU regulative i found that EU member states are allowed to install their own rules regarding those EV vehicles. It seems that only applies within the national borders. Also that is also true for insurance of such a vehicle. But still...
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

I got Slovenian homologation certificate today! Now i can go and register the car.
Still first i need to pass technical inspection like all ols cars :roll:.

Of course i couldnt resist and took the car out some. I went to one EVSE located close by. Hm... failure or partial success? When i have a simple EVSE at home and it works on my charger interface, i just couldnt make the charge there. My interface kept jumping to ON/OFF charge, I guess it couldnt sense the pilot CP signal correctly. Will test some more.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

Shit! Shit! Shit! I managet to deform my Ampera cells. DOH!

I experimented with Lebowski inverter start settings and transition from sensored to sensorless. Also i expanded the acceleration limiter. I managed to get the car rolling directly from start to some 20km/h and then IT PULLED! BMS showed i pulled some 450A and i was grinning all the way. I repeated this session a couple of times. When i came back and inspected the battery i was apalled! On every module the endmost cell was a bit bulged and module surface was hot to touch. I let them cool down and then connected them to charge slowly at 8A. Well they went up to 4V per cell OK.
I guess i would have to have liquid cooling setup. System is certainly capable of more power still.

I am not sure if the deformation caused some damage or not. I will have to test at low end of SOC.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

Well, remember when i said i had siezed LH CV joint tripod bearings? Well that was not true. Rather i made a dumb mistake when copying the length and forgot to pull out on the tripod so it would be extended like in its natural position. Instead i just copied it in the innermost position with wheels down. Naturaly you all know right triangle? Well i forgot the hypotenuse is allways longet than cathetes. All in all i didnt listen at my geometry class!
So my CV axle was pushing at the lip of the tripod casing everytime it came around. In 10000km i wouldnt have an axle...

So i went and cut my LH CV axle again. This time i made many measurements and tried to assemble the joint without grease and rubber. I needed to take off 20mm of the axle! I went to a machine shop with a lathe and they cut the shaft and beveled the edges so it would be easier to weld. Then additionaly they made a pin to fit on the inside of hollow shaft. Next they drilled 2 8mm holes in each shaft section at 90deg and assembled everything. I went to the car with everything and tried one more time. The shaft spun clear. Sadly i hadnt had my phone handy so no pics of the process :(.
Then i ask my friend with huge MIG/MAG welder to weld the shaft for me. He filled the beveled circumference and the 4 holes. Then i liberaly sprayed the shaft with zink spray. Now hopefully everything would carry 200kW if needed!

I went for the test ride and everything works, car is silk smooth on the road and i am surprised how good the wheels are tracking. Now what is left is to go for wheel aligment, just in case i made some errors when assembling the front bridge.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

Again for some improvement!
Last time i went on the highway and drove some 40km to a friend and charged there. Remember i have my temp gauge wired with some parallel resistance to create higher temp. That way dry temp sensor alarm wouldnt get me at start. When i leaned over and touched the coolant hose leading to radiator i was shocked! It was hot. Luckily it was not hot enough to fault the inverter.
Now i am playing with cooling fans controls. I see the logic behind a two fan start. First they start slow and then relays click! Now fans start to run at full speed which is quite loud.
I also found out that i can trigger start behaviour with the 4th contact on pressostat. If i give it 12V it will start fans and if i pull it they will stop.

Now in practical terms i have 3x relays between fans. I experimented with taking them offline and figured which relay was for which function. In the end i cut positive control wires to two relays and now with a single pressostat wire i can start both fans at 1/2 speed. Though full speed is not available anymore i think i will be good with half rpm. It is much quieter and lower 12V consumption.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by johu »

Can you see any temperature reading, inverter or motor?
Even on a day like yesterday (35°C peak) the motor only got warm. And remember I have just a tiny radiator, I drove Autobahn with steep inclines (Kasseler Berge) and sometimes I drove 150 km/h. Only then could I see the temperature rise to 70°C.
So if you get that much heat on a 40 km drive, maybe something is not parametrized right. Unless you drove 40km steep uphill ;)
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

johu wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:34 am So if you get that much heat on a 40 km drive, maybe something is not parametrized right. Unless you drove 40km steep uphill ;)
Yes exactly, I actually drove 30km on highway at 120kmh and then 10km at slower speed steep uphill. It seems like this was the factor with heat buildup. I am content now everything will work and I have positive control.

Like i said i had to adapt temp sensor with another 470R resistor in parallel so now it shows 75deg when i start "engine". Anything less and BSM would throw an error and assume temp sensor is dry. That also means system is calibrated to a different critical temperature than before. I think it is closer to actual 90deg while before it was 130deg which is fine for inverter and even better for motor magnets.
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... al-errors/

I will have to relocate battery from Mazda to try any long distance drive... we ll see how it goes then...
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by jalovick »

johu wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:16 am Ha, damn sync motors ;)
Polo is also a bit light on the nose and starts misbehaving at higher speeds or when it's wet. I have artificially jacked up the back with harder springs and spacers but that just hides the symptom.

Yes you should load it down and I'll have to load down Touran as well.
As cheesy as it sounds, adding a front spoiler will improve stability at speed. I used to own a Suzuki Cappuccino, and adding a larger front bumper/spoiler made all the difference at over 100 Kph.

Jamie
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by arber333 »

jalovick wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:31 am
As cheesy as it sounds, adding a front spoiler will improve stability at speed. I used to own a Suzuki Cappuccino, and adding a larger front bumper/spoiler made all the difference at over 100 Kph.

Jamie
True, i went from 60 - 40 gas version to 50 - 50 with LiFePo and back to 60 - 40 with LiPos in my mazda and stability was not an issue per se. I needed to put some 20mm shims over rear coils to keep it in line... because of the front lights!!! Go figure.

Here with 406 it seems i have again 50 -50 distribution and nose is slightly going up. For now i dont see any stability issues. I really need battery weight up front because engine + ATX combo weighed more than 300kg together. Now Leaf gen 1 motor with gearbox and shafts weighs cca 100kg and i put about 150kg of batteries in the front box. I am waiting now on Jag battery... Ups... spoiler alert! :twisted:

I am also thinking of attaching a front rubber curtain from front lip down to road level. This should block the air from entering underside. Ampera has this feature and i guess it improves its handling and Cd.
Also once i put all chargers in i will cover the underside with 2mm alu panels for smooth surface and protection for equipment underside.
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Re: Peugeot 406 coupe Pininfarina with Leaf motor and Ampera inverter

Post by jalovick »

arber333 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:55 am I am also thinking of attaching a front rubber curtain from front lip down to road level. This should block the air from entering underside. Ampera has this feature and i guess it improves its handling and Cd.
Just a few centimetres makes quite a difference. I think on the Cappuccino was 3 or 4 cm, but it made a big difference.

Another thing to look at is adjusting the front suspension setup. A good suspension workshop can adjust the suspension setup to meet the new balance, if it's not possible to keep the same weight balance.

Adding an underfloor cover should help the aero, but it's important to make sure it's stable.

Jamie
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