Outlander rear motor and inverter

Mitsubishi hybrid drive unit hacking
tom91
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

Bratitude wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:17 pm is there any particular CV you have in mind? i was just thinking of making a stub shaft with the 33 vw spline so all the VW flanges fit. apposed to doing a full custom cv, say one that works with a mini shaft, would be very expensive.
I would say 33 VW Spline is the away to go for now. I got some flanges coming to do some mock ups.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Bratitude »

tom91 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:46 pm I would say 33 VW Spline is the away to go for now. I got some flanges coming to do some mock ups.
makes the most sense. vw stuff is strong, cheap and abundant.
outladner_stub.jpg
first mockup; vw beetle 33spline, outlander on the other end.
A few fillets to adjust, but backspacing should be correct. ill make some mock ups this week to check
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
User avatar
DkubusEV
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:22 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by DkubusEV »

nlc wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:05 pm Thank you, firmware should be different between Mitsubishi Outlander and Peugeot Ion because yesterday I was able to drive the inverter with only the frame ID 0x285, without specific sequence
Hi NLC, I also have Imiev motor and inverter that I would like to use (attached to vw beetle gearbox) for a classic car conversion. Did you get any more results with your CAN bus testing and is it possible to make these inverters open source software controlled?

Really looking forward to hearing more. Thanks guys for all your hard work on this.

Cheers
Mike.
1998 Mercedes R170 SLK gs450h project
2003 Smart-Roadster hillclimb EV (DC)zilla2k
1976 Purvis-Eureka EV kit car
2011 Ford focus EV (DC)Soliton1
1990 Daihatsu charade G100 3 door DC conversion.
User avatar
aot93
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: UK, West Sussex
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by aot93 »

DkubusEV wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:44 am Hi NLC, I also have Imiev motor and inverter that I would like to use (attached to vw beetle gearbox) for a classic car conversion. Did you get any more results with your CAN bus testing and is it possible to make these inverters open source software controlled?
Did you already try the published outlander control methods?
I'd be surprised if the imiev protocol differs significantly
User avatar
DkubusEV
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:22 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by DkubusEV »

Not yet as so far I have only purchased the damaged Imiev as a donor vehicle....
1998 Mercedes R170 SLK gs450h project
2003 Smart-Roadster hillclimb EV (DC)zilla2k
1976 Purvis-Eureka EV kit car
2011 Ford focus EV (DC)Soliton1
1990 Daihatsu charade G100 3 door DC conversion.
tom91
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

aot93 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:04 am To add some more to the above:

HV voltage at the inverter is only sent until a torque request is made to the inverter, so it's useful only for pre-charging.
Once a torque request has been made it looks like the byte order changes, I've not worked that out yet to get voltage reading from the inverter whilst it's running. The BMS take care of voltage limit and the charger reports HV from the other side of the contactors
On this topic, how quickly does a rear inverter come to live once it has been given 12V, it would be very useful to use as a precharge monitor.
The Inverter reports this at a 10ms period where the charger only reports at 100ms.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
User avatar
aot93
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: UK, West Sussex
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by aot93 »

less than 500ms I would say.
I've not timed it, but it's faster than the teensy can boot
I do exactly this; timing the pre-charge stage using the inverter reported voltage.
If it's too fast it could be an indicator of a welded contactor.
User avatar
james@N52E01
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by james@N52E01 »

Apologies if this question has already been answered but I’ve read conflicting reports of the max input voltage the rear inverter can accept. The outlander battery uses 10x 8 prismatic cell modules from memory. Has anyone tried a 96s (360v) ev battery with it and is there any internal logic or limit which would prevent this?
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by rstevens81 »

I believe that the inverter is safe upto 400v (96s) as that's what I'm doing with it, but my inverter is still on the shed floor at the moment 😁
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
arber333
Posts: 3241
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Location: Slovenia
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by arber333 »

james@N52E01 wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:16 pm Apologies if this question has already been answered but I’ve read conflicting reports of the max input voltage the rear inverter can accept. The outlander battery uses 10x 8 prismatic cell modules from memory. Has anyone tried a 96s (360v) ev battery with it and is there any internal logic or limit which would prevent this?
Yes i have tested rear inverter with Volt gen2 96S battery at 3.95V per cell. At least at 380Vdc inverter worked still.
Outlander DCDC, charger, heater and AC compressor were tested up to 398Vdc and they worked up to there. There is no reason inverter shouldnt work up to 400Vdc.
User avatar
james@N52E01
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by james@N52E01 »

Amazing thanks Arber and rstevens
tom91
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

On the same topic, has one ran as low a battery voltage as possible?
I have not yet had the time my self to reconfigure my test pack to lets say 200V and test this myself.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
arber333
Posts: 3241
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Location: Slovenia
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by arber333 »

tom91 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:26 am On the same topic, has one ran as low a battery voltage as possible?
I have not yet had the time my self to reconfigure my test pack to lets say 200V and test this myself.
I tested charger, dcdc, heater and AC compressor at and above 230Vdc. They worked above that. I had no reason to test inverter there though....
tom91
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

arber333 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:44 am I tested charger, dcdc, heater and AC compressor at and above 230Vdc. They worked above that. I had no reason to test inverter there though....
Sure, but if we knew the operation window of the inverter there are alot more pack options that become available for small classic vehicles like beetles/fiat 500/mini. Once I get more time I will look if I can easily alter the voltage of my test pack.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
User avatar
james@N52E01
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by james@N52E01 »

I’ll be happy to try it at lower voltages with my test batteries Tom but it’s probably going to be a while before I can get all the parts together. The Nissan Leaf inverter has a low voltage cutoff that kills the whole system at 190v so it’s sensible to check like you say. I wanted to ask, that Opto mini setup have mounted their rear motor/diff backward to how it is fitted in the Outlander. Do you know if they have hit any torque or rpm limits with the inverter thinking it’s operating in reverse or is it not that smart?
Attachments
CEC90A09-CAAD-4139-8D4E-A96F2738CFF2.png
F17A3024-C919-4F9D-88BB-3D022B433462.png
tom91
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

james@N52E01 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:20 pm Do you know if they have hit any torque or rpm limits with the inverter thinking it’s operating in reverse or is it not that smart?
None that I have found on the Opto setup, they run a VCU I have developed. Also bench testing could get upto 12K rpm in both directions.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by rstevens81 »

I should have my front pack in by mid November so can probably wire something in to see if it likes 48s (at least without it moving), I too am interested in running it at lower voltages, am quite tempted by half of a corsa-e/e208 in a 48 to 60s configuration as I can basically get 22-28kwhr and still be under weight
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
User avatar
james@N52E01
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by james@N52E01 »

tom91 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:03 pm None that I have found on the Opto setup, they run a VCU I have developed. Also bench testing could get upto 12K rpm in both directions.
Outstanding, thanks for the info Tom.
User avatar
james@N52E01
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by james@N52E01 »

rstevens81 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:39 pm I should have my front pack in by mid November so can probably wire something in to see if it likes 48s (at least without it moving), I too am interested in running it at lower voltages, am quite tempted by half of a corsa-e/e208 in a 48 to 60s configuration as I can basically get 22-28kwhr and still be under weight
I was planning the exact same thing. maybe we should go in halfies on a pack ;)

However I was planning on reconfiguring the modules to 12s and just using them for lower current demand. Seems a bit pointless if the system is happy enough at those voltages, albeit with a bit of a drop in efficiency
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by rstevens81 »

That would be ideal, when the time comes, yes reconfigure the pack is my plan b as it requires either dismantling the modules so they go +-+- rather then ++-- ... But that would require either breaking the glue that holds the cells together or some funky bus bar arrangement...plus one person would need to source a suitable BMS (not that that's a major hurdle).
Although I have 20kwhr of vw modules, keeping the weight as low as possible pays more in my application of a mx5
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by rstevens81 »

One thing to note is even if it doesn't like 48s, 72s (33khr 150kg) would still work which would be 2 packs split 3 ways! And no faffing about reconfigure the modules
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
OutlanderDonor
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:26 pm

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by OutlanderDonor »

Hello, does anyone know the continuous and maximum allowed RMS current for rear motor? Maybe there is some documentation on that? Currently I am limiting it to 170Arms.
arber333
Posts: 3241
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Location: Slovenia
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by arber333 »

OutlanderDonor wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:27 pm Hello, does anyone know the continuous and maximum allowed RMS current for rear motor? Maybe there is some documentation on that? Currently I am limiting it to 170Arms.
I think main fuse inside inverter is 300A. Please correct me if i am wrong and it is 250A...
OutlanderDonor
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:26 pm

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by OutlanderDonor »

Well, it may be, but it just tells that continuous current (and max) is below :D

P.S. - I am not using Mitsubishi inverter, just motor.
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by SciroccoEV »

Fuses are rated at their continuous carry current. They will then have an I2T (current squared times time) rating, indicating how quickly they will blow due to overcurrent.

Using a fuse with too high a rating is a very common mistake.
Post Reply