Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Mitsubishi hybrid drive unit hacking
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fredd90
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by fredd90 »

bobby_come_lately wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:36 pm Are you getting any error messages via canbus? There is a good dbc file around for interpreting the CANBus messages from the charger.
Have not done this control method, do i need a kvaser can-usb cable to do this? I know that Dbc files can be opened with kvaser software.
arber333 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:49 pm
fredd90 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:50 pm
Im out of ideas unfortunally
Well Outlander charger is very specific about start protocol.
1. you need to provide 12v on charger input LV signal pins
2. you can start sending both CAN telegrams 2
3. when you show 12V pwm CP signal of say 25% duty it will pull it down to 6V
4. now when that happens charger will expect AC to show on input AND pull its AC relay in
otherwise it will ignore AC input. What you need is circuit like open EVSE t regulate your AC protocol from the wall side.
1.Plus connected to pin 8 IGCT main power
Minus connected to pin 11 GND
2. Both tested wirh my ecu and an arduino.
3. Did see a 27% signal in can message i think. But i maybe need to measure with scope.
So when it apears 6v on cp the EVSE cable should enable ac output from cable.
This stage is not happening i Think.
4. Have looked at open evse solution but i bought a prebuilt cable wirh 16A Cee connector.
https://www.google.com/search?q=3+phase ... d9rpwJzBgM
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by bobby_come_lately »

SavvyCan is your best bet: https://www.savvycan.com/

Can be run with an Arduino Due: https://openinverter.org/wiki/CAN_bus_with_Arduino_Due

You will need a couple of transceiver modules to go with it - SN65HVD230

You can load the DBC file in SavvyCan and then load up all of the relevant fields in the Signal Viewer screen. I would send a screenshot but my system is in pieces at the moment.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

fredd90 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:15 pm 1.Plus connected to pin 8 IGCT main power
Minus connected to pin 11 GND
2. Both tested wirh my ecu and an arduino.
3. Did see a 27% signal in can message i think. But i maybe need to measure with scope.
So when it apears 6v on cp the EVSE cable should enable ac output from cable.
This stage is not happening i Think.
4. Have looked at open evse solution but i bought a prebuilt cable wirh 16A Cee connector.
https://www.google.com/search?q=3+phase ... d9rpwJzBgM
I have seen DCDC work with 14.4V in Mazda and 15.2Vdc in my Pug. No idea why.
Your cable is quite adequate, as long as there are PP and CP signals present. I use PP signal to start CAN bus flow. Did you by chance swap PP and CP pins? PP pin is the longer of the two because it needs to signal state change before/after CP is active.
The way i see step 4 to happen would be to connect AC directly and use a PWM signal 12V with 25% duty while CAN bus is broadcasting 2 IDs! I think you are missing something here...
msg ID 0x285 data 00 00 B6 00 00 00 00 00 every 100ms
B6 is charger enable request to pull CP in

msg ID 0x286 data 28 0F 78 37 00 00 0A 00 every 800ms or so
28 0F is voltage request 390V
78 is current request
37 and 0A i am not quite sure what they do

Since 0x286 does nothing to control output voltage (strangely because it needs voltage request quite explicitely) i used ID 0x396 to snoop for votlage and reduce charger after 390Vdc. BMS input is used to stop charger with 0x285 msg.

I posted the code for DUE here:
viewtopic.php?p=20611#p20611
I am still working on it :).
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

I have prepared a little code to keep my 12V aux battery from dying when car is parked for extended period of time.
I had some problems with detecting and regulating voltage. When auxbatt would be at 12.00V and DCDC would come online voltage would immediately jump ro 14.4Vdc and Due would drop the conditional. No matter what i used if condition would allways revert and at best i could manage about 2s activation, time between CAN telegrams.

I had to get creative on this one :).
In the end i used CAN telegram 0x389 to raise a flag when aux would drop below 12.00V
Then i called another function which would start DCDC, extend the time when active and finally drop the flag.
Everything worked well, but i added else statement to just drop the flag in case anything else would be going on. Just in case.
Of course one need to declare all variables and flags etc...

I think it works really well and keeps DCDC on for 3 minutes, enough for aux batt to get a good charge.

here is the active part of the code:

Code: Select all

/*
0x389h 8bytes Charger status
  B0 = HV-Batteryvoltage    (hAB=342V -> 2V/bit)
  B1 = AC-Mains voltage     (hE2=226V -> 1V/bit)
  B2 = DC-charge current (1?) (h5B=9,1A -> 0,1A/bit
  B3 = Temperature 1    (starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
  B4 = Temperature 2    (starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
  B5 = Statusbyte     (CA while charging)
    bit0(LSB) = 
`   bit1    = Mains voltage present
    bit2      = 
    bit3      = Charging
    bit4      = Error (no CAN messages received)
    bit5      =
    bit6    = DC-DC converter request active
    bit7(MSB) = 1KHz pilot present    
  B6 = AC-Mains current     (h91=14,5A -> 0,1A/bit)
  B7 = DC-charge current (2?) (same as B3, sometimes differs by 0,1A)
/*

bool auxState = false;     //create + name flag

const unsigned int ontime = 120000; //3min for on time
unsigned long elapsedtime ;             //Variable to compare millis for timers

void loop()
{ 
  CAN_FRAME incoming;

  if (Can0.available() > 0) {
    Can0.read(incoming); 
    if(incoming.id==0x377){
      aux1=incoming.data.bytes[0] ; //voltage value high byte
      aux2=incoming.data.bytes[1] ;   // voltage value low byte
      auxvoltage=((aux1 * 256) + aux2); //recalculate two byte voltage value
    }  
    }

if (auxvoltage < 1200) { // if aux voltage is low and DCDC is off
auxState = true; // set the flag to true   
elapsedtime=millis();  
}

DCDCauxcharge();

void DCDCauxcharge()
{ 
if ((auxState == true) && (digitalRead(Enable_pin) == LOW)) {      // auxvoltage went below 12.00V and car is not ON
digitalWrite(DCDC_active,HIGH);   
if (millis() - elapsedtime >= ontime) {      // if aux voltage is low and for 5min 
digitalWrite(DCDC_active,LOW);            // turn off DCDC_active relay 
elapsedtime=millis();
auxState = false;
}}
else {                    // if auxvoltage is OK 
auxState = false; // turn off DCDC_active relay
}}
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by fredd90 »

arber333 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:46 am
fredd90 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:15 pm 1.Plus connected to pin 8 IGCT main power
Minus connected to pin 11 GND
2. Both tested wirh my ecu and an arduino.
3. Did see a 27% signal in can message i think. But i maybe need to measure with scope.
So when it apears 6v on cp the EVSE cable should enable ac output from cable.
This stage is not happening i Think.
4. Have looked at open evse solution but i bought a prebuilt cable wirh 16A Cee connector.
https://www.google.com/search?q=3+phase ... d9rpwJzBgM
I have seen DCDC work with 14.4V in Mazda and 15.2Vdc in my Pug. No idea why.
Your cable is quite adequate, as long as there are PP and CP signals present. I use PP signal to start CAN bus flow. Did you by chance swap PP and CP pins? PP pin is the longer of the two because it needs to signal state change before/after CP is active.
The way i see step 4 to happen would be to connect AC directly and use a PWM signal 12V with 25% duty while CAN bus is broadcasting 2 IDs! I think you are missing something here...
msg ID 0x285 data 00 00 B6 00 00 00 00 00 every 100ms
B6 is charger enable request to pull CP in

msg ID 0x286 data 28 0F 78 37 00 00 0A 00 every 800ms or so
28 0F is voltage request 390V
78 is current request
37 and 0A i am not quite sure what they do

Since 0x286 does nothing to control output voltage (strangely because it needs voltage request quite explicitely) i used ID 0x396 to snoop for votlage and reduce charger after 390Vdc. BMS input is used to stop charger with 0x285 msg.

I posted the code for DUE here:
viewtopic.php?p=20611#p20611
I am still working on it :).
Thanks for great support members =)

Did have a struggle to make it going correct. Did plug it in to my canbus system in my e61, probbably there was something that interrupted the charger from working. now i got things isolated from car canbus when test.

The funny thing is stat the charger starts when i send ID 0x285 data 00 00 B6 00 00 00 00 00

0x286 was not needed to start charging, but i send it anyway =) Did set the evse cable to 16A

Now the charger puts out approx 8Amp DC at 352vdc and draw 14,5A AC at 220vac.

The confusing part is that the dc-dc puts out 15,5vdc. Where did you connect the 12v sense cable? i just jumpered it into 12v charger supply.

I sniff the values through canbus, Amp ac/dc volt ac/cd and 2x temp.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Clanarn »

Hi. Which side of the contactors have you guys connected the HV to? Any significent current draw that makes it "dangerous" to connect directly to HV battery? Thx.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Clanarn wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:26 am Hi. Which side of the contactors have you guys connected the HV to? Any significent current draw that makes it "dangerous" to connect directly to HV battery? Thx.
Let me think about this....no. I think it would be adequate to have charger/DCDC connected directly to battery side of DC contactor.
This is goot also for following CAN bus msg to supervise aux voltage and HV and other data. Its a wonder what outlander charger drops to CAN.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by cloudy »

You would presumably need some way to pre-charge the DC-DC for the initial hookup though...
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by tom91 »

Anyone have a Charger/DCDC in the Bristol area I could 3D scan?
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by tom91 »

Thanks to rstevens81 I was provided with a Charger and DCDC to scan.

Image

Code: Select all

https://grabcad.com/library/outlander-phev-charger-and-dcdc-1
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by LRBen »

Got this charging my 60s pack on the bench at 220v. Getting around 8.8 Amps.

Here is the code I used just to add to the pool. Using a Teensy 3.6. Batmax can be removed, I just use that as a safety to stop charging once one cell reaches a certain voltage. I will refine it further. But this puts charge in so that's good enough for right now.

Code: Select all

void charging() {
  if (chargerEVSE.check()) { //100ms timer to send canbus messages
    if (Batmax < 4100) // as long as max cell is under 4100mV, send signal to EVSE.
    {
      //unsigned char evse[8] = {0x00, 0x00, 0xB6, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00};
      CAN_message_t msg1;
      msg1.id = (0x285);
      msg1.len = 8;
      msg1.buf[0] = 0;
      msg1.buf[1] = 0;
      msg1.buf[2] = 0xB6;
      msg1.buf[3] = 0;
      msg1.buf[4] = 0;
      msg1.buf[5] = 0;
      msg1.buf[6] = 0;
      msg1.buf[7] = 0;
      Can0.write(msg1);
    }
    else
    {
      CAN_message_t msg1;
      msg1.id = (0x285);
      msg1.len = 8;
      msg1.buf[2] = 0x00;
      Can0.write(msg1);

    }
  }

  if (charger800.check()) {
    unsigned char charger800[8] = {0x28, 0x0F, 0x78, 0x37, 0x00, 0x00, 0x0A, 0x00};
    CAN_message_t msg1;
    msg1.id = (0x286);
    memcpy (msg1.buf, charger800, 8);
    Can0.write(msg1);

  }

}
I've been running it for short periods of time without any coolant running through it. Does anyone know if I can get away with a bit longer? I'm assuming if it was designed to take coolant it probably means it needs it!
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

LRBen wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 10:02 am I've been running it for short periods of time without any coolant running through it. Does anyone know if I can get away with a bit longer? I'm assuming if it was designed to take coolant it probably means it needs it!
I wouldnt advise you to run the charger at prolonged periods without coolant. It seems i caused DCDC to wander off while running without coolant. Now it wants to make 15.2V no matter how i connect it!

I have also implemented listening for charger temp byte and when temp goes over 40deg my DUE starts coolant pump and DCDC converter so it wouldnt drain the battery.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by cloudy »

Can anyone confirm which way round neutral/live is on the AC input plug? Thanks!
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by midway »

cloudy wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:06 pm Can anyone confirm which way round neutral/live is on the AC input plug? Thanks!
it does not matter
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by cloudy »

Whilst it might work, it's generally a good idea to follow the markings. The neutral is usually at ground potential, so swapping them over might affect safety protections. The PCB is marked with N/L, its just not clear without opening it up and tracing which is which as the wires are both orange.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Ah - understand your question better now. I traced it with a spare Type 1 charger cable which had the sides labelled. Can't remember which way around it is now but will try to trace when I finally get back to the workshop.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by aot93 »

From the service manual pin 1 is cold - (neutral) and pin 2 is hot (live / phase) Both are helpfully coloured orange with no other trace:
Screenshot 2022-06-07 151936.png
They are clearly labelled on the inside of the charger though:
IMG_20210220_173235.jpg
The OEM plug should look like this, personally I swapped this for a different mains connector (powerCOn true1):
IMG_20220607_152445__01.jpg
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by cloudy »

Thankyou! That's fantastic :)
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by evMacGyver »

arber333 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 12:22 pm It seems i caused DCDC to wander off while running without coolant. Now it wants to make 15.2V no matter how i connect it!
That does not sound good. Have you double or triple verified your feedback/sense (pin 7) and signal ground (pin 10) connections?
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Alibro »

Hi guys, I have read this thread from post one but there are some really basic things not discussed or I missed them, either way here goes.

I recently bought a PHEV charger/dc-dc, have it mounted in the car and was all set to connect it up but am now going to ask some VERY basic questions. Not that I don't know the answers of course, but for the help of others. :?
Please bare with me as I have never charged an EV so have no clue how it all works and the WIKI didn't help.

1. Do I need a granny charger to make it charge my pack or can I just put 230V directly to the ac connector?
I'm presuming the answer is yes but if so will my Nissan Leaf EVSE work with it?

2. How does the EVSE communicate with the Charger? The ac lead from the PHEV unit has a 5 pin connector but only three are used so how does the EVSE know to enable charge? Or am I confused, does the EVSE need any communication to allow it to work?
I will be using charge port and cable removed from a Nissan Leaf and it has three cores for ac and two more for the EVSE but I know they were connected to the Leaf charger so I'm assuming they are important so how can I connect them to the Outlander charger?

I read in one post that the charger does not need a precharge resistor. Is this correct? If so it might simplify thing a little.

In an earlier post Arber333 said the following

Well Outlander charger is very specific about start protocol.
1. you need to provide 12v on charger input LV signal pins
2. you can start sending both CAN telegrams 2
3. when you show 12V pwm CP signal of say 25% duty it will pull it down to 6V
4. now when that happens charger will expect AC to show on input AND pull its AC relay in
otherwise it will ignore AC input. What you need is circuit like open EVSE t regulate your AC protocol from the wall side.

1. What are the pin numbers please?
2. I can probably figure this out but (forgive me if it is here and I missed it) can anyone please share arduino code for this, for a Nano or Uno with MCP2515 or a Due.
3. How are other sending this 12V PWM signal?
4. Sorry I'm lost here, do I need an Open EVSE charge port?

So I guess what I'm asking for here is an idiots guide to connection up the Outlander PHEV OBC/dc to dc converter and getting it to work.
I need a bigger hammer!
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Alibro wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:29 pm Hi guys, I have read this thread from post one but there are some really basic things not discussed or I missed them, either way here goes.

I recently bought a PHEV charger/dc-dc, have it mounted in the car and was all set to connect it up but am now going to ask some VERY basic questions. Not that I don't know the answers of course, but for the help of others. :?
Please bare with me as I have never charged an EV so have no clue how it all works and the WIKI didn't help.

1. Do I need a granny charger to make it charge my pack or can I just put 230V directly to the ac connector?
I'm presuming the answer is yes but if so will my Nissan Leaf EVSE work with it?

2. How does the EVSE communicate with the Charger? The ac lead from the PHEV unit has a 5 pin connector but only three are used so how does the EVSE know to enable charge? Or am I confused, does the EVSE need any communication to allow it to work?
I will be using charge port and cable removed from a Nissan Leaf and it has three cores for ac and two more for the EVSE but I know they were connected to the Leaf charger so I'm assuming they are important so how can I connect them to the Outlander charger?

I read in one post that the charger does not need a precharge resistor. Is this correct? If so it might simplify thing a little.

In an earlier post Arber333 said the following

Well Outlander charger is very specific about start protocol.
1. you need to provide 12v on charger input LV signal pins
2. you can start sending both CAN telegrams 2
3. when you show 12V pwm CP signal of say 25% duty it will pull it down to 6V
4. now when that happens charger will expect AC to show on input AND pull its AC relay in
otherwise it will ignore AC input. What you need is circuit like open EVSE t regulate your AC protocol from the wall side.

1. What are the pin numbers please?
2. I can probably figure this out but (forgive me if it is here and I missed it) can anyone please share arduino code for this, for a Nano or Uno with MCP2515 or a Due.
3. How are other sending this 12V PWM signal?
4. Sorry I'm lost here, do I need an Open EVSE charge port?

So I guess what I'm asking for here is an idiots guide to connection up the Outlander PHEV OBC/dc to dc converter and getting it to work.
1. Charger is very specific for handshake from the AC wall side. Yes you need some kind of EVSE to provide Cp signal. But that is also the case with Tesla charger...
So if you have Nissan Leaf charging cable with box attached, that would be your EVSE.
DUE code for CAN is on my blog or in my github...

2. I am sure there are other EVSE explanations too...
When you connect cable to the car socket PP comes in contact first. It pulls its pin to GND which signals EVSE plug is inserted. Then EVSE sends Cp signal which is the second shorter pin in your socket. Cp is sending a 1khz signal PWM which is varied by duty. This then instructs charger how much current it should pull.
Now the starting protocol... when Cp is shown it is 12Vac and is rectified by a diode to 12Vdc. A 2k7 resistor to GND is connected after diode so result is 9V pwm inside charger. This signifies READY msg from EVSE. Charger has a relay with 1k3 resistor pulled to GND which signifies CHARGE msg.
Outlander charger is setup so that If both former msg happen, AC is present, there is CAN command telegram AND CAN heartbeat telegram is present, only then will it start charging.
But really the point of this EVSE rigmarole is to provide AC only on condition vehicle is connected. Some chargers have this built in, some require additional circuit to control this...
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Alibro »

Thank you Arber, sorry if I'm being stupid but I don't want to get anything wrong as the consequences could be serious so I'm going to try to rewrite what you have said in my own simple way as I'm a very simple soul. :D Just to confirm I understand it correctly.

CP signal = Control Pilot signal and PP = Proximity Pilot https://www.picoauto.com/library/automo ... ns-type-2/.
These are on the two smaller signal connections in the charge socket. In my case (Gen 1 Nissan Leaf charger cable) they come out of the charger cable close to the main socket and connect into the wiring loom of the Leaf. I believe they go to the Leaf OBC but don't run along side the ac cable. One of these (CP) two connections goes to the 13pin connector on the Outlander charger.

So these are the connections for the 13pin socket according to the Wiki page, I'll put this in my own words so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Pin 1 (Orange) NC on outlander............................................. Not connected
Pin 2 NC on outlander............................................................ Not connected
Pin 3 (Blue) NC on outlander.................................................. Not connected
Pin 4 DC SW (enables the DC:DC converter)........................ If I apply positive 12V it starts the dc to dc?
Pin 5 CHIN (Serial protocol to EV Remote wifi module)........ ??? Can we use this?
Pin 6 CAN H (Black)............................................................... CAN High connection
Pin 7 Sense line for DC to DC converter............................... Voltage sense. In my case the charger maintains approx 14.4V
Pin 8 IGCT main power to charger......................................... Positive 12V connection to provide power, no idea what IGCT means in this context.
Pin 9 CP signal from charger................................................. Control Pilot Sense connection to EVSE.
Pin 10 GND........................................................................... 0V connection to battery neg.
Pin 11 NC............................................................................... Not connected
Pin 12 CHOT (Serial protocol to EV Remote wifi module)..... ??? Can we use this?
Pin 13 CAN L (Red)................................................................ CAN Low connection

Funny in writing this the fog in my head is starting to clear on the EVSE connections, but what about the internal precharge resistor? is there one or do we always need to use a precharge resistor when connecting the main battery voltage to the charger?

Still to figure out where the PP connection to the EVSE goes.

As I work through getting this working I'll update this post.
I need a bigger hammer!
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by arber333 »

Alibro wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:23 pm Funny in writing this the fog in my head is starting to clear on the EVSE connections, but what about the internal precharge resistor? is there one or do we always need to use a precharge resistor when connecting the main battery voltage to the charger?
There is no precharge resistor. Charger and DCDC have inrush protectors so you can just connect them directly.
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Alibro »

arber333 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:06 pm
Alibro wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:23 pm Funny in writing this the fog in my head is starting to clear on the EVSE connections, but what about the internal precharge resistor? is there one or do we always need to use a precharge resistor when connecting the main battery voltage to the charger?
There is no precharge resistor. Charger and DCDC have inrush protectors so you can just connect them directly.
That's brilliant thanks. I still haven't finally decided on the layout of my HV junction box but it's good to know the charger/dc-dc is OK either way.
I need a bigger hammer!
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Re: Mitsubishi outlander charger and DC:DC

Post by Alibro »

OK so I can confirm most of the connections mentioned above.
The 13 pin connector had me fooled for a while as the middle pin on the top row is blanked off so pin 4 is where you would think Pin 5 should be and so on. The picture Dilbert posted in the second post in this thread shows this but you need to look closely to see it.
I can also confirm the sense wire works to keep the battery charging at around 14.4V. When first testing I had the sense wire connected via a long lead and several connectors and the battery voltage went up to 14.9V. When connected directly to the battery the voltage settled at 14.4V.

I just need to get the ac charging going now.

Arber333, I had a look through your Due code for the charger and noticed the following line

else if(voltage <= 194) { // if Charger senses less than or equal 388V

I'm hopeless at arduino coding so please forgive me if this is a stupid question but is this line there to prevent the battery from being charged above 388V?
If so can you please advise how to set it for 394V as I think I'd be OK with the cells being charged to 4.1V each
I need a bigger hammer!
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