VW eGolf hardware

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EV_Builder
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by EV_Builder »

2 phase 230v is not the same in any sense as 400Volts..
So measure between phases and be sure.

Anyway if the charger has N+L1+L2 connections.
You can just connect what you like as long as N to L1 and N to L2 fall within input specs.
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see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by Icee »

EV_Builder wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:59 pm 2 phase 230v is not the same in any sense as 400Volts..
So measure between phases and be sure.

Anyway if the charger has N+L1+L2 connections.
You can just connect what you like as long as N to L1 and N to L2 fall within input specs.
Not what I'm asking. But thankyou anyway. Have to continue my research
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by EV_Builder »

Icee wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:22 pm I would gladly open it up if I knew what i what components I was looking for to know if it can take 400v or to say it mor correctly 2 phase 230v.
So my response was on this part. I didn't answer your first question because that's difficult to know without knowing their design.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by JaniK »

Please note that e-golf bms modules support up to 12cells/bms module and are connected to "dummy" modules.

The bms equipped modules that do not have an external connector for additional modules on the opposite side of the CAN bus, are from hybrid vehicles like golf GTE and not from e-golf.

@alfonatr
So you could get e-golf bms boards from alibro to use all of your modules and cell in your project.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by Alibro »

Yes, I have said boards carefully stored if anyone needs them.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by jnsaff »

This may be a stupid question but I'm wondering whether there is a chance I could still use SimpBMS if I would reconfigure the pack to be 16S 48V say 5P? I have 2 (almost) complete packs and a SimpBMS and a need for the capacity as ESS, but my house system is 48V. It's a pita to find a good alternative BMS.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by JaniK »

16S 48V ? You mean you would take 16S and make it into 48V module? 12S is closer to 48V

I think you would need more can bus,
Or have to connect the multiple packs in parallel and the individual cells between packs too.

Like
Pack 1 cell 123456...
Into other ... | | | | | |
Pack 2 cell 123456....
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by jnsaff »

Ignore me, going to read the manual then wire up and report my results.

So what I mean is this:
SimpBMS 16S.png
I would arrange the modules into 16S blocks (my charger goes to 64V and I can have 4.0V per module with 16S so that is fine me thinks). But happy to do 14S or 12S which would allow me to utilize 4S more for the pack but my charging power would go down slightly.

The module bms boards would be connected similarly as in the car all in series but the power connectors would be in 16S chunks parallel.

It looks like Carel is doing this with the MEB modules I should be able to try this with the eGolf modules too, right?
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by tom91 »

Will not work, if you change the cells connected to the Slaves it will not work. So for an E-Golf as long as you keep the modules "complete" you can wire them up in any way you want as they are isolated.

However there are quite some unique quirks to the packs so watch out.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by jnsaff »

tom91 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:34 pm Will not work, if you change the cells connected to the Slaves it will not work. So for an E-Golf as long as you keep the modules "complete" you can wire them up in any way you want as they are isolated.

However there are quite some unique quirks to the packs so watch out.
I'm a bit confused by this. Let's say I have one complete E-Golf pack with all modules present. I can't run it as 88S as Victron is 48V. Can I get a reasonable 48V pack out of it with (one) SimpBMS that would work with Victron? I can do 16S5P or 14S6P or 12S7P.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by Alibro »

jnsaff wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:46 pm I'm a bit confused by this. Let's say I have one complete E-Golf pack with all modules present. I can't run it as 88S as Victron is 48V. Can I get a reasonable 48V pack out of it with (one) SimpBMS that would work with Victron? I can do 16S5P or 14S6P or 12S7P.
For 16S there are many ebike BMS that would give voltage monitoring. I'm not sure they would have much effect for balancing though with so many cells in parallel.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by JaniK »

jnsaff wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:46 pm I'm a bit confused by this. Let's say I have one complete E-Golf pack with all modules present. I can't run it as 88S as Victron is 48V. Can I get a reasonable 48V pack out of it with (one) SimpBMS that would work with Victron? I can do 16S5P or 14S6P or 12S7P.
The e-golf module with BMS/CAN connection will have to be connected to the same amount of non BMS/CAN modules that it was originally, as the BMS/CAN module sees the BMS+nonBMS modules as a ONE large 12S module set.

You will have 8X the 4S module with BMS connector on one side and and TWO interconnect connectors on other side that go to rest of modules, that will have to be connected correctly to the VW BMS module with CAN or the VW BMS board Will give errors.

You can have many separate working 12S packs with VW BMS slave modules.

I have no idea will it work if you have up to 5 of those in parallel.
tom91 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:34 pm ...So for an E-Golf as long as you keep the modules "complete" you can wire them up in any way you want as they are isolated.

However there are quite some unique quirks to the packs so watch out.
Maybe a 12S5P would be possible ?


Other 3 BMS boards originally have less modules than 12S

Here is list of module sets that originally are in a 35.8kWh pack.

Amount x 4S/2S module sets starting from
the slave BMS 4S module.
3x444
2x442
1x422
1x4422
1x42222
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by jnsaff »

JaniK wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:26 am Amount x 4S/2S module sets starting from
the slave BMS 4S module.
3x444
2x442
1x422
1x4422
1x42222
This is great information, thank you!

Are the BMS boards different? What I'm asking is whether I could have all the BMS modules be 444? so 12S8P? I do have another pack that I could scour the dumb modules from.

I understand that a single SimpBMS can support 8 BMS modules that all need to have distinct ID's, so to utilize the other pack I would need to get another SimpBMS but the dumb modules should be interchangeable, no? Their boards look really dumb.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by tom91 »

jnsaff wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:39 am Are the BMS boards different? What I'm asking is whether I could have all the BMS modules be 444? so 12S8P? I do have another pack that I could scour the dumb modules from.
So there are two "dumb" modules, so no idea if the "BMS" modules care. Easiest way to find is is just to take the covers off and compare them, also look at the two interconnecting looms. Then last thing is you can just plug in a "BMS" module and then try the different dumb modules.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by Alibro »

tom91 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:32 am So there are two "dumb" modules, so no idea if the "BMS" modules care. Easiest way to find is is just to take the covers off and compare them, also look at the two interconnecting looms. Then last thing is you can just plug in a "BMS" module and then try the different dumb modules.
I don't know if it helps or just confuses things but I have a full set of BMS circuit boards in a cupboard as I'm using a Leaf BMS for my car.
I'd be happy to do a swap for them.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by JaniK »

[
tom91 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:32 am So there are two "dumb" modules, so no idea if the "BMS" modules care. Easiest way to find is is just to take the covers off and compare them, also look at the two interconnecting looms. Then last thing is you can just plug in a "BMS" module and then try the different dumb modules.
I have all the wiring sorted and pin to pin traced into 3sheets of notes on paper.

If I recall correctly there is no data wires, well except temp sensor in larger ones. Just the cell +/- wires and temp.

You would have to get the "444" style interconnect wiring though.

I will check my notes when I get home.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by tom91 »

JaniK wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:22 am I have all the wiring sorted and pin to pin traced into 3sheets of notes on paper.
The most interesting would be the wiring for the modules that do not have the full 12S total.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by JaniK »

tom91 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:28 am

The most interesting would be the wiring for the modules that do not have the full 12S total.
This is from E-golf 35,8kWh orange harness:
5QE971226G

Red connector allways has the same number of wires, as the module set has cells counting after the first 4S BMS module.
So
BMS+8S equals for 8 cable on red connector.
BMS+6S for 6 cable on red connector.
BMS+4S for 4 cable on red connector.
Order to cells is same, just lessen the wires farthest from the BMS module. See below.

--

The black connector has 2 wires (1 twisted pair) per each dumb module.
So if there is 444 set:
a red connector has 8 wires + Black connector has 4 wires
If 42222 set, 8wires for red and black has 8wires.

So...

1wire per dumb module cell on red

1 pair per dumb module on black connector.
NOTE it is twisted pair !!!

Could it be that the BMS board will work with any config and senses the module amount and configuration from the black connector? That goes to pin 1 an 6 on the blue dumb module connector. Or is it temp sensor? Or interconnect check? I remember they don't work without HV between the modules..!

(Maybe I take a few modules and check their behavior with differen interconnect cables and few dupont wires to hack 2S+2S connectors to one 4S)

Cells in blue connector are pin 3/7 for 2S dumb and 3/7, 4/8 on 4S dumb

Cells in red connector are in 2S pairs on pins 2/7, 3/8, 4/9 and 5/10

Modules (sense?) in Black connector are 1/5, 2/6, 3/7 and 4/8

Does that make any sense ? :lol:

Edit: when I get the modules on table someday I can make a diagram what cell wire goes where.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by boekel »

With the old modules (Panasonic, red covers) you can use different no. of cells with the CMU modules.
the new ones (Samsung, black) you cannot change the no. of cells per CMU.

the twisted wires in the black connectors are the temp. sensors.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by jnsaff »

I decided to unwrap the wiring harness last night and it's a good job that I did, two lessons:
- it's impossible to tell which connector goes to which string looking at it visually. There is not much sense to it, connectors that are right next to each other are often from a string far away. You either have to unwrap the whole thing or go through it with a continuity tester and mark all of them.
- once unwrapped all the strings are independent, no connectivity or loop between them whatsoever.

I have two of the harnesses and on both the exact same position temp sensor connection has been cut off on a 12S string so I need to cannibalize one of the shorter strings. Maybe a very difficult to reach position in the pack.

I also got the BMS controller out of the HVJB but looking at the SimpBMS manual it seems that this was unnecessary and it only talks to the slave boards.

I will try to connect SimpBMS to the modules today and see what I end up with, if this works then I just need a connector for one of the LEM sensors of which I have a box full and the high current cabling.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by JaniK »

jnsaff wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:30 am You either have to unwrap the whole thing or go through it with a continuity tester and mark all of them.
I went with continuity tester first marked them all and then unwrapped them.


Have you read our thread about the e-golf battery?
viewtopic.php?p=26099#p26099
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by boekel »

Ah yes the busbars are also crazy in this pack, it's because most of the 'half' modules (2s) are close together, but they need a 'master' (4s) module connected.

And the amount of different bolt-types is also bizarre...
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by JaniK »

That's what happens when VW decided to use ICE chassis for EV.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by arthur8 »

Hi friends,

Just got one complete Golf GTE hybrid battery. Each module (it does have 4 modules) uses 2x 12s lithium cells connected in series, as already said on this topic.

My offgrid solar system works on 14s, but the VW GT batteries are 12s. It is possible, in any way, to use the battery pack with its own BMS as 12s or 14s? Or i will need to get an external BMS connected to the lithium cells?

Thanks.
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Re: VW eGolf hardware

Post by arber333 »

arthur8 wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:16 pm Hi friends,

Just got one complete Golf GTE hybrid battery. Each module (it does have 4 modules) uses 2x 12s lithium cells connected in series, as already said on this topic.

My offgrid solar system works on 14s, but the VW GT batteries are 12s. It is possible, in any way, to use the battery pack with its own BMS as 12s or 14s? Or i will need to get an external BMS connected to the lithium cells?

Thanks.
You could use modules in parallel and with BMS connected just by CAN bus. Use SimpBMS and wire your harness from the GTE wires.

But i use those cells in my sola array with JK BMS wired for 12S. Problem is not with BMS. Inverter requires minimum 48V to return back to battery, which is to much for 12S Liion. I would need 16S to keep battery at optimal charge/discharge states for my application. I already have a plan to use Mazda LiPo cells for that.
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