Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Introduction and miscellaneous that we haven't created categories for, yet
User avatar
Peter
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:07 pm
Location: North West Lancs, UK
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Peter »

Well played Bigpie, I will vote for you when Boris goes :-)
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1586
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

They finally published the article, they didn't use any of the photos taken, I must have a face for radio.
View it on web archive to get around the paywall.
http://web.archive.org/web/202206111509 ... ax-breaks/

Quentin Willson will be "lobbying through my FairCharge campaign to make ministers understand why the DVLA needs to change its policies and keep up with the changing electrification landscape."
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

At least we seem to have got some traction over this, but I am disappointed that they have simply fallen for the DVLA's nonsense that the emisions cannot be changed for these cars, but that is IRRELEVANT. The article even promotes the view that the law is preventing any such reclassification and that is WRONG. The regulations are very clear 'ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE EXEMPT FROM VED'. The entire notion of not being able to re-classify them is simply nonsense. That overriding exemption means the Schedule that states emissions cannot be changed should not even be considered. In fact doing so is breaking the law and ignoring the very clear exemption.

This is such an important point that no-one seems able to grasp. The law already provides the desired exemption, but DVLA are just trotting out the same old apparently oh so humble BS that they cannot go against what the law states when that is EXACTLY what they ARE doing. DVLA are continually and repeatedly breaking the law by not allowing the exemption that is stated in the regs.

These morons (DVLA and government) are running our country. God help us.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1586
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

Screenshot 2022-06-14 at 10.46.29 pm.png
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ax-v70.pdf
I know I'm banging my head against a brick wall trying to get through to someone at the DVLA but their own documents and website state it's possible to update the fuel type, my MP now ignores me about this, the case worker at the DVLA is also now ignoring me.
Should we go to Swansea?
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
User avatar
SuperV8
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:57 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by SuperV8 »

Nice to see the conversation on recycling fuel cars to EV's on a national newspaper, well done Jamie - presume that's you Bigpie :D

Just a thought - from here:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-exempt-from-vehicle-tax

DVLA are 'misguided' in their interpretation of the actual law I wonder if they are also misguided on other tax changes for post 1st March 2001 vehicles for example vehicles used by a disabled person?

Vehicles exempt from tax:
image.png
User avatar
aot93
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: UK, West Sussex
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by aot93 »

Does anyone have experience of registering conversion of an imported vehicle?

I'm considering conversion of a Bongo next, these almost always have a "Date of first registration with DVLA" after 2001 but a "Date of first registration" pre 2001
User avatar
catphish
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:02 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by catphish »

aot93 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:46 pm Does anyone have experience of registering conversion of an imported vehicle?

I'm considering conversion of a Bongo next, these almost always have a "Date of first registration with DVLA" after 2001 but a "Date of first registration" pre 2001
You'll be fine. Everyone simplifies it as "post 2001" but the scope of this is actually quite specific:
This Part of this Schedule applies to a vehicle which—

(a)is first registered [F3, under this Act or under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom,] [F4, after 28 February 2001 but before 1 April 2017], and

(b)is so registered on the basis of an EC certificate of conformity or UK approval certificate that—

(i)identifies the vehicle as having been approved as a light passenger vehicle, and

(ii)specifies a CO2 emissions figure in terms of grams per kilometre driven.
Unless your vehicle has a type approval certificate with a CO2 emissions figure on it, you're fine.

...assuming the DVLA actually follow the law.
User avatar
aot93
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: UK, West Sussex
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by aot93 »

Thanks, good to see the case is specifically called out.

Of course there is no guarantee the DVLA will take any notice of it!
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

Bad news I'm afraid.

My local MP took the case to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I've just received the written reply from his office (surprising since they must be in turmoil at the moment). Anyway…

The government is clearly of the opinion that 2001 - 2017 cars converted to electric, should not be reclassified and then charged VED at the electric rate. The only reason actually referred to was a concern for 'safety' due to the possibility of poor conversions. A clearly nonsensical argument since they have no such qualms about the conversion of older cars (i.e. pre 2001).

There was no obvious mention of the current regs not allowing such cars to have their emissions figures changed (the DVLA argument) and even alluded to the fact they recognise this is in opposition of their push towards electric vehicles. It seems that whatever the regs may or may not say, they are happy with the way DVLA are currently operating, i.e. not reclassifying electric conversion of 2001 - 2017 cars.

So, that's it. The government have made their position clear on this. However the regs may be interpreted, they do not want such conversions to be re-classified as electric and there's no use in further appeals in that direction. I fail to understand exactly why they are so intransigent on this particular issue, but sadly, they are.

Our only recourse now is a legal challenge in court as it is the courts that decide, based on what the law (i.e. the Regs.) states, no matter what the current government may say or think. This is not something I can consider taking on. Anyone here prepared to do so, or know someone who could and would?
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
Ev8
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:05 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 149 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Ev8 »

Thanks for your effort Ken.
Alibro
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 248 times
Been thanked: 144 times
Contact:

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Alibro »

eUKenGB wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:02 am Bad news I'm afraid.

My local MP took the case to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I've just received the written reply from his office (surprising since they must be in turmoil at the moment). Anyway…

The government is clearly of the opinion that 2001 - 2017 cars converted to electric, should not be reclassified and then charged VED at the electric rate. The only reason actually referred to was a concern for 'safety' due to the possibility of poor conversions. A clearly nonsensical argument since they have no such qualms about the conversion of older cars (i.e. pre 2001).

There was no obvious mention of the current regs not allowing such cars to have their emissions figures changed (the DVLA argument) and even alluded to the fact they recognise this is in opposition of their push towards electric vehicles. It seems that whatever the regs may or may not say, they are happy with the way DVLA are currently operating, i.e. not reclassifying electric conversion of 2001 - 2017 cars.

So, that's it. The government have made their position clear on this. However the regs may be interpreted, they do not want such conversions to be re-classified as electric and there's no use in further appeals in that direction. I fail to understand exactly why they are so intransigent on this particular issue, but sadly, they are.

Our only recourse now is a legal challenge in court as it is the courts that decide, based on what the law (i.e. the Regs.) states, no matter what the current government may say or think. This is not something I can consider taking on. Anyone here prepared to do so, or know someone who could and would?
Bummer!
Not surprising unfortunately but still disappointing.
I still suspect some idiot senior manager in the DVA who made this decision years ago is sticking to his/her guns to protect their reputation. They will have written to the politicians who have other things on their minds right now so couldn't care less about such a trivial (in their eyes) issue. Politicians will always go with what the civil service say unless it suits them politically to argue against.
I need a bigger hammer!
LRBen
Posts: 471
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:35 pm
Location: Somerset, UK
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by LRBen »

Governments are luckily temporary things, and we will have a new one in a couple months. So probably worth it to keep banging the drum when MPs/staff change.
It does sound a bit like there has been some influence from car manufacturing lobbies in that decision. If they easily allow relatively modern cars to be converted then people will more likely do that than buy a new electric car. Which is not the road the net zero we are suppose to take.

The 2001 tax change point seems like an easy way for them to put a line in the sand on how old a modern car is.
tom91
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by tom91 »

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... st-1100452
Link to one of many people recently having had their V5 voided when attempting to change fuel type.

Gents so it has come to pass now that ANY modification is one too many to a frame or monocoque of a vehicle. So no new holes or cutting or welding allowed.

Please take note of this as it will VOID the V5 of your vehicle if you submit it with a modified chassis or monocoque to the DVLA and will require an IVA to get a V5 again and thus be road legal.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by SciroccoEV »

I attended CENEX LCV at Millbrook recently and spoke to Sam Denyer. He's the strategy advisor, vehicle policy, for the Office for Zero Emission Vehicles.

http://www.gov.uk/ozev

He's aware of problems with the DVLA and told me that they're negociating behind the scenes.

I told him the problems with the DVLA are many years old, run deep and wished him luck.
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

SciroccoEV wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:59 pm I attended CENEX LCV at Millbrook recently and spoke to Sam Denyer. He's the strategy advisor, vehicle policy, for the Office for Zero Emission Vehicles.

http://www.gov.uk/ozev

He's aware of problems with the DVLA and told me that they're negociating behind the scenes.

I told him the problems with the DVLA are many years old, run deep and wished him luck.
I contacted them ages ago about this, never even received a reply. So not holding my breath.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

steveknox wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:03 pm …Interestingly, the "fuel type" on your MOT history says 'electric'. Funny how it can be changed in some places but not others..
Re-reading this topic and it is apparent there is confusion over this part of the V5C. So to clarify:-

'Fuel Type' is just that and has no bearing on anything to do with VED (tax).

'Taxation Class' is what governs VED. Often they are basically the same thing, but not in all situations. A car converted to EV could have its 'Fuel Type' changed to 'Electric', but if 'Taxation Class' is still 'PLG' (pre 2001) or 'Petrol Car' or 'Diesel Car', it will continue to be taxed at the original ICE rate.

So the important issue is to get the car re-classified, i.e. have its 'Taxation Class' changed to 'Electric' in order to be taxed as an EV, which is currently £0, but sure to change eventually.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

Has anyone converted to electric a car already classified as a HISTORIC vehicle (so no tax or MOT requirement).
Or
Has a converted car (fully re-classified by DVLA as 'ELECTRIC') reach 40 years of age and had it re-classified as HISTORIC?

Since the 'Taxation Class' could only be either ELECTRIC or HISTORIC, not both, which TC is actually used and more importantly, do DVLA accept the exemption from MOT?

They have told me re-classification is no problem, but not specified which TC is used and also no mention of the MOT requirement.

The MOT situation is a puzzle. I'm not trying to elicit opinions of whether an MOT is a good thing or not, just the legal and bureaucratic implications of a 40 year old EV.

The point about the MOT exemption is that it cannot be granted if there have been significant modifications, without there being any precise details of what constitutes such modifications. I guess one might argue that if it been accepted and re-classified as ELECTRIC, then by their own definition it cannot have been significantly modified.

Also, allowed modifications include 'upgrade of drivetrain components to more efficient items' and I would claim that is exactly what converting to EV actually is. But this is DVLA we're talking about.

I contacted Electric Classic Cars as this is their bread and butter, but they replied that they simply MOT every converted car as a matter of course, which doesn't answer the question of whether it is required or not.

I'm reluctant to actually ask DVLA more about this as for one thing, the answer I get would not be definitive and could change the next time I ask, but also, the last time I started pushing them for a definitive answer, i.e. on the subject of this thread, it seemed to spur them to revoke the ELECTRIC re-classification of cars that had slipped through and I don't want to initiate another DVLA pogrom, in this case against MOT exemption.

So, has anyone any experience of an EV being 40+ years old? What is the MOT situation?
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
aot93
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: UK, West Sussex
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by aot93 »

The mini was already registered as Historic and MOT exempt before conversion.
I was lucky and the DVLA changed fuel type to electric and kept the class as historic.

I was able to tax (at £0) with proof of insurance and no MOT was required as it is still historic.
I re-taxed (again at £0) a few months ago and there was again no need for an MOT

Personally I think vehicles that are already classed historic are easier to get through the DVLA, possibly because of the 'changes made to improve efficiency...' clause
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

aot93 wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:48 pm … and no MOT was required as it is still historic.
Thanks, interesting. However, MOT exemption is not limited nor automatically applied to HISTORIC classification cars. They just become applicable at the same age. So a HISTORIC car will still require an MOT unless the exemption form SciroccoEV linked to has been submitted and which I understand to then apply in perpetuity.

So a car converted and re-classifed to ELECTRIC, on becoming 40 years old could in theory be MOT exempt, without re-classifying to HISTORIC - as long as it isn't 'substantially modified'.

So clearly, in some cases DVLA will not object. I guess the real question is, has anyone with a 40 year old EV been REFUSED MOT exemption due to having been converted?
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
aot93
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: UK, West Sussex
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by aot93 »

Another story of V5 being pulling because of a few holes in the boot.
https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/t ... y/?hl=dvla

The guy has started a petition, not sure it will change anything but would be worth signing..

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/625633
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by SciroccoEV »

More evidence that the DVLA is not fit for purpose.

User avatar
aot93
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: UK, West Sussex
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by aot93 »

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/main ... assic-car/

A reasonable article giving some exposure to the the recent problems of id being withdrawn.
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

aot93 wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:19 pm https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/main ... assic-car/

A reasonable article giving some exposure to the the recent problems of id being withdrawn.
More frighteningly incompetent, ignorant and simply stupid carryings on by DVLA. Two things worry me about that article:-

Firstly, that as we have already discovered, there seems no way to control DVLA and put a stop to their ignorant arrogance. No one is in charge and they are left to their own devices, the net result being the utter stupidity illustrated in that article and of course many other instances too.

Secondly, the selfish narrow mindedness being shown by some of the commenters. Like "once converted to electric, it's no longer a classic car". What nonsense. If they wouldn't want it because of that, it's up to them, but to state outright that you believe such practices should be prevented is no better than DVLA themselves. No wonder DVLA get away with what they do when even apparent car lovers are that selfish and narrow-minded..
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1586
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

More bollocks.
IMG_20230313_125310315.jpg
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
Post Reply