Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Introduction and miscellaneous that we haven't created categories for, yet
Post Reply
User avatar
Ev8
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:05 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 149 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Ev8 »

steveknox wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:03 pm That's disappointing news for my rx-8 conversion..I'll be applying for a change soon and will keep you guys up to date on that.

@ev8 Would you mind if I tweeted this picture (with your details blanked out?) I think the best way to make this process easier is to highlight it in public as much as possible. I'd recommend everyone who has even the smallest social media presence to highlight this.

Interestingly, the "fuel type" on your MOT history says 'electric'. Funny how it can be changed in some places but not others..
Sorry if that's overstepping your privacy, but i was interested to see what it would say.
Yes no problem
Speedy
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:15 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Speedy »

Yes, @zippy500, so basically what DVLA are saying is "Thank you for letting us know that the car is now fully electric, we have made a note of that but unfortunately, we can't change the taxation class (of post 2001 vehicles I assume). So you will have to continue paying road tax at the same band as it previously was.
User avatar
rstevens81
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 am
Location: Bristol, UK
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by rstevens81 »

As a double whammy .... You are required to tell the DVLA of changes to your car so you have to get letter from garage to show that the motor has been changed!
Rule 1 of EV Club is don't buy a rust bucket....
Which rule does everyone forget 🤪
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

Screenshot_20210814-172149_Twitter.jpg
Seen this in Twitter that might be interesting
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
Domt177
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: West Midlands, UK
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Domt177 »

I imagine it's a lot easier to convince the DVLA when your a firm doing many conversions a month vs a random 17yr old converting the car in your dads garage.. hope I'm wrong.
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

I'd happily give them a years worth of tax payments to send the letter in
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

Domt177 wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:11 pm I imagine it's a lot easier to convince the DVLA when your a firm doing many conversions a month vs a random 17yr old converting the car in your dads garage.. hope I'm wrong.
This would of course be terribly wrong. The law on this matter does not distinguish between the professions of those applying to have the Taxation Class changed. DVLA should accept a car as converted to Electric, even one aged between 2001 and 2017. Legally, it is NOT dependent on who is applying for the re-classification.

As far as I am concerned and also legal advice I obtained, the main provisions of the relevant regulation need to be adhered to without needing to read into any sub Schedule(s) and the main provisions explicitly state that an Electrically propelled vehicle is exempt. There are NO exceptions to that. Age of vehicle and/or current classification is NOT a consideration at this top level of the regs. DVLA insist on interpreting this incorrectly, at least they did during the extended discussions I had with them specifically on this topic.

So I would be very interested to know if London Electric Cars have had DVLA accept a 2001-2017 car as converted to Electric and had its Taxation Class changed to that (hence exempt from VED) as by the end of our discussion, they were very clear that cars of that age would NOT be allowed to have their Taxation Class changed. So if they are indeed allowing this, that would be of great interest to me.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

Same, I've asked them exactly that.
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

Bigpie wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:02 pm Same, I've asked them exactly that.
Great. Do please let us know what they reply.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
Ev8
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:05 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 149 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Ev8 »

Also interested to know this before I bother contacting the dvla again, even though they decided I couldn’t change tax class they never even returned my v5c, given that it took over 6 months to get a response I’m going to have to or a replacement copy and pay for it as it could take forever to get one otherwise
User avatar
bobby_come_lately
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 5:39 am
Location: Manchester, UK
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 36 times
Contact:

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by bobby_come_lately »

After a little back and forth, I just got my V5 back from the DVLA and my '99 Z3 is now registered as 'Electric' for taxation class and fuel type is 'electricity'.

I originally sent them the receipt for the motor along with the V5 and V70 form, back in September. They came back with some questions about how much had been changed on the car. In response to this I sent (emailed) back some photos and the receipts for the inverter and batteries.

About a week later I got my V5 through the post with these changes.
User avatar
janosch
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
Location: London, UK
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 54 times
Contact:

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by janosch »

Yes, we have also converted two (and a half) vehicles to be electric now, both fuel & engine type noted as electric.

Got the license plates with green flash for all of them, we have done 02, 07 and 62 plate.
Domt177
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: West Midlands, UK
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Domt177 »

janosch wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:22 pm Yes, we have also converted two (and a half) vehicles to be electric now, both fuel & engine type noted as electric.

Got the license plates with green flash for all of them, we have done 02, 07 and 62 plate.
Do you still have to pay road tax on them?
User avatar
janosch
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
Location: London, UK
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 54 times
Contact:

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by janosch »

Domt177 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:09 pm
janosch wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:22 pm Yes, we have also converted two (and a half) vehicles to be electric now, both fuel & engine type noted as electric.

Got the license plates with green flash for all of them, we have done 02, 07 and 62 plate.
Do you still have to pay road tax on them?
My co-founder has done the paperwork, I think we pay road tax and then get a refund once it pops out of their admin machine.
Maybe we write off the first year of tax on the conversion.
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

How did you get the DVLA to update the 02, 07 and 62 plates to electric? I've been tussling with them since the summer, but they're still refusing to even update the fuel type to electric.
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

I've come across someone that's managed to get the DVLA to update the fuel type and emissions and also pay 0 tax, I've not been able to get a response from the video poster as to the process he undertook.
DVLA_1.jpeg
DVLA_2.jpeg
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
LRBen
Posts: 471
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:35 pm
Location: Somerset, UK
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by LRBen »

I met Chris from Zero EV the other week and mentioned having to still pay car tax on my conversion due to it being newer. He said that the Boxster they did is 04 and pays £0 car tax. Plate number is PX04 FMZ.

He recommended that you put in the forms for tax change and engine change at the same time, put it down as 0cc capacity and also give them the new engine numbers. Basically just throw as much information at them as possible so they don't have any room to maneuver. I think it might help coming from a business as well. London Electric Cars don't seem to have any issues either.
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

I think the real problem here is that DVLA are simply not consistent. They may interpret the regulations incorrectly, but those regs specifically do NOT distinguish between businesses and private individuals. That CANNOT be misinterpreted and if DVLA do differentiate, then there is no question they're doing it wrong.

They stated (in an extended discussion) unequivocally to me that cars first registered after March 2001 could NOT be re-classified. They were intransigent on this, claiming that was what the regs stipulated. They are wrong about that, but that aside, how can they then justify re-classifying ANY car of that age.

They need to do this correctly, according to the regs (that they currently interpret incorrectly) and apply that same process to ALL applications for cars of that age. This inconsistency that seems to depend on who you speak to is unacceptable. The law is the law and always is. This needs to be sorted so they are doing it correctly - EVERY time.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by Bigpie »

I've written to my MP again, and the SoS for transport. I shall also be phoning the DVLA again in the new year. Their last response to me "Therefore, it is never possible under current law to reclassify a vehicle in a different tax class unless there is evidence of the vehicle being incorrectly registered at first registration." Is clearly a load of rubbish, it can be changed for use by a disabled person etc.
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
User avatar
catphish
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:02 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by catphish »

I read the relevant legislation on this yesterday. I am not a lawyer so this is purely my lay opinion: The DVLA can't legally remove the CO2 emissions figure from a vehicle, however they definitely can correctly record its "fuel type" and also exempt it from tax. There is no legal precedent here as far as I can tell, so people are just taking the DVLA's word for it (which seems to change depending on who at the DVLA they speak to). Hopefully, if they refuse to do so, it won't be too long before someone goes to court for not having paid tax, and the matter will be finally decided!
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

catphish wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:54 pm I read the relevant legislation on this yesterday. I am not a lawyer so this is purely my lay opinion: The DVLA can't legally remove the CO2 emissions figure from a vehicle, however they definitely can correctly record its "fuel type" and also exempt it from tax. There is no legal precedent here as far as I can tell, so people are just taking the DVLA's word for it (which seems to change depending on who at the DVLA they speak to). Hopefully, if they refuse to do so, it won't be too long before someone goes to court for not having paid tax, and the matter will be finally decided!
Yes, you're exactly correct. They are obsessed with the "cannot change the emissions figure", but that is overridden by the main provisions of the regulation which unequivocally state "an electric vehicle is exempt" (from VED). I did get a legal view on this, so it's fairly clear, the DVLA are misinterpreting the regs. Their position is the same as if it was a business trying desperately to not lose revenue, but that is not the way it is or should be. They should simply abide by what the regs actually state.

It would be simpler if the regs were changed to make specific allowance for this situation. Like "emissions cannot be changed unless fuel type is changed to electric". Wouldn't take much to make it clear to DVLA. However the regs are actually ok as they are and shouldn't need changing just to get through to those dunderheads at DVLA.

I did get this taken to their (DVLA's) 'Policy Department' whose job it is to control the operation of the DVLA in matters like this, but their response was "we have no policy on this" - I kid you not. Hence we are dealing with individuals who make things up as they go along and there is no consistency.

I sporadically get wound up by this and make an attempt to try and do something about it, but then get despondent at not getting anywhere and it goes on the back burner again.

Maybe the first step is to start a petition. Then, if we get sufficient support we may get some sort of dialog going with the government. I figured that was my next step.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
catphish
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:02 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by catphish »

[POST REMOVED]
User avatar
catphish
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:02 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by catphish »

I asked this question on Reddit yesterday in the hoped of getting another more legal opinion on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/ ... converted/

I just realised that the DVLA actually have a formal complaints procedure, this seems like the correct way to get this resolved. It escalates nicely. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... -procedure

I'm more than happy to write a formal complaint, would appreciate some concrete examples of cases to cite, as I don't have my own yet.
User avatar
eUKenGB
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:05 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by eUKenGB »

You're welcome to try that route, but having done something similar, I would expect a similar result. They will officially stick to their guns, that emissions cannot be changed etc. Their complaints procedure is about how they handle what they do, not about what they should be doing, how they interpret the regs etc.

It is my considered opinion that they will never voluntarily alter their position on this. They need a good hard shove from a higher authority.
Ken G i l l e t t

“You can’t have too many bikes"

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
User avatar
catphish
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:02 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Registering and changing tax class of an EV conversion in the UK

Post by catphish »

eUKenGB wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:01 pm It is my considered opinion that they will never voluntarily alter their position on this. They need a good hard shove from a higher authority.
Their complaints procedure does go up a long way, however if this is insufficient, the next step would be judicial review. If we're certain we've exhausted all other options, then a letter before action with specific demands would be the way to go. If anyone feels they have a case that has reached this stage, I'd definitely like to get an opinion from a solicitor about the potential costs of resolving this.
Post Reply