Chademo Controller Development

Development and discussion of fast charging systems eg Chademo , CCS etc
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Re: Chademo Controller Development

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

Ok so I tested several configurations and can't seem to find the issue, though I did have some interesting settings issues.

First, in all cases the error message from the Electrify America charger was 23_00H_0 This occurred after the station appeared to begin delivering power. Watching on the web interface, it appears the station does all of its checks (station side voltage rises, drops to zero, the rises back to the car's voltage), and I hear the contactors close in the car and the station, but then it throws the "Malfunction|Stop" error message in the web interface and the station says charging failed.
20220211_202623236_iOS.jpg

Second, I played around with the signs of various items from the shunt, and observed an interesting result.
- Regardless of the signs of Volts and Amps, the sign of kW stayed the same.
- Changing the setting for kW did not change the sign either.
- No matter what settings I use, I get negative kW when power is leaving the pack, and positive when it is entering (tested by running the motor with the car on jack stands). This seems like it should be what the controller wants, but I'm not sure at this point.

I can't seem to figure out what combination of signs the controller wants. Can anyone else that has this functioning tell me what they are seeing sign-wise in the web interface so I can attempt to match?
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Re: Chademo Controller Development

Post by Bratitude »

    P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:24 pm


    Second, I played around with the signs of various items from the shunt, and observed an interesting result.
    - Regardless of the signs of Volts and Amps, the sign of kW stayed the same.
    - Changing the setting for kW did not change the sign either.
    - No matter what settings I use, I get negative kW when power is leaving the pack, and positive when it is entering (tested by running the motor with the car on jack stands). This seems like it should be what the controller wants, but I'm not sure at this point.

    hmm is this again a case of the “wrong” orientation ? Might be worth flipping it just too see.
    you’ve verified that the shunt is working properly, outside of the vcu? which it seems like so it’s just the vcu running itself?
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

    Bratitude wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:05 pm hmm is this again a case of the “wrong” orientation ? Might be worth flipping it just too see.
    you’ve verified that the shunt is working properly, outside of the vcu? which it seems like so it’s just the vcu running itself?
    I've flipped it around so at least in terms of current flow it is in the "right" orientation, just off of the + side of the pack instead of the -.

    What's odd to me is that the power sign won't change even when I tell it to. The shunt is more than happy to swap the sign of the voltage and amperage reading when I tell it to, but power won't change.

    Based on everything I can easily test, the shunt is working correctly. Voltage matches what I see from a multimeter, and amperage seems correct when running my level 1 charger.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Isaac96 »

    Interesting. What do you have in terms of wiring diagrams? Is there an instruction manual for this STM32 chademo unit?
    Power sign really ought to change, that's quite strange.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

    Isaac96 wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:33 pm Interesting. What do you have in terms of wiring diagrams?
    See attached sketch of my HV wiring.

    Isaac96 wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:33 pm Is there an instruction manual for this STM32 chademo unit?
    To the best of my knowledge, there are no instructions for the STM32 version. I was hoping to put them together once I got this working.

    Damien, if you're willing to share, how many STM32 versions were sold and do you know of others that may be working? (not to imply there is an issue with the board, but to find some help).
    Isaac96 wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:33 pm Power sign really ought to change, that's quite strange.
    I've got to try one more time to confirm that is what's happening. Should get a chance this coming weekend, if the weather stays decent.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    @Isaac96 if i may...

    How do you treat ISA CAN wiring in your Chademo setup? Is your ISA shunt terminated at one end and DUE VCU terminated at the other end with whatever in between? Does the EVSE want to be the end of connection for Chademo link?
    I am asking because i need to setup my wiring in such a way that BMS will detect telegrams from ISA shunt.

    tnx
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Isaac96 »

    arber333 wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:46 pm @Isaac96 if i may...

    How do you treat ISA CAN wiring in your Chademo setup? Is your ISA shunt terminated at one end and DUE VCU terminated at the other end with whatever in between? Does the EVSE want to be the end of connection for Chademo link?
    I am asking because i need to setup my wiring in such a way that BMS will detect telegrams from ISA shunt.

    tnx
    So I've built two similar setups, both of which worked properly.

    One had both EVSE and ISA on one CAN bus, with termination on ISA because of where things were located. BMS was on the other CAN bus as this was in a Tesla-Toyota RAV4 and I didn't want to add extra frames to their CAN.

    The other had EVSE on its own CAN, with termination on VCU. ISA was on the main vehicle bus with about 5 other devices, most of which had their own termination already (not recommended but seems to work fine).

    EVSE appears to have its own termination according to every diagram I've seen. It would be optimal to keep that bus free of any other traffic.

    P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:34 pm

    See attached sketch of my HV wiring.


    To the best of my knowledge, there are no instructions for the STM32 version. I was hoping to put them together once I got this working.



    I've got to try one more time to confirm that is what's happening. Should get a chance this coming weekend, if the weather stays decent.
    Okay, wiring looking good. Shunt on the HV side should not cause any issues but it's always possible, that might be a last thing to change.

    I do have one of the STM32 chademo boards, it'll go in the next conversion, but that's a ways off.

    https://github.com/damienmaguire/Chadem ... 32_Chademo
    Looks like this is the software on the board. I'll look through a bit and see if I can figure out what's going on, seems like it's basically Johannes' chademo system plus openinverter core.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Isaac96 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:14 pm Backwards installation shouldn't cause damage.

    Looking at your picture: I don't see a voltage sensing connection?
    One of the 2-pin connectors needs to be connected to the opposite side of the HV bus (if shunt is on negative then connect 2-pin to positive).


    Here's how I had mine hooked up (this is in a RAV4 EV). Pack wiring is on the left, chademo power comes in on the right (orange wires).

    IMG_3233 (1).jpg

    EDIT Note that there are three voltage sense connectors; sensor 1 is used for power measurements and has highest priority, not sure which one is read by the Chademo VCU (since all can be accessed via CAN).
    Hi Isaac96

    I would like to have a permanent connection for ISA voltage measurement. Why did you connect across contactors on chademo side? What if i would connect my ISA on the pack side? Would i need to connect in reverse of your connection to have correct current flow?
    What i want is constant voltage measurement on the pack side. This should allow me to make a modular chademo box which i would be able to use with several cars as long as i would have direct DC link access. It would be a good excercise in jaguar cells thermal capability as well...
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Isaac96 »

    arber333 wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:55 pm

    Hi Isaac96

    I would like to have a permanent connection for ISA voltage measurement. Why did you connect across contactors on chademo side? What if i would connect my ISA on the pack side? Would i need to connect in reverse of your connection to have correct current flow?
    What i want is constant voltage measurement on the pack side. This should allow me to make a modular chademo box which i would be able to use with several cars as long as i would have direct DC link access. It would be a good excercise in jaguar cells thermal capability as well...


    I put the voltage measurement on the chademo side because I wanted my system isolated as much as possible from the Tesla pack when not in use.

    ISA on the pack side is no issue. It won't change flow direction as long as you match the polarity.

    Modular box sounds pretty awesome. Rather like Johannes' weightlifter's charger. Feed it 50kw DC and a battery link and you're off to the races!
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Idea is to have an emergency charging system which we can share if someone is going on extended trip.
    Here is what i have so far...
    Everything is assembled inside inox box.
    20220220_191537.jpg
    I still need to make some L connections and cables. Also USB connection for testing
    20220220_191608.jpg
    I intend to make this box fit in place of exhaust muffler similar to Damiens tube :). But for first testing i will connect it from inside the trunk.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Isaac96 wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:33 pm Interesting. What do you have in terms of wiring diagrams? Is there an instruction manual for this STM32 chademo unit?
    Power sign really ought to change, that's quite strange.
    Isaac96 can you suggest where do you connect ISA shunt 12V power to? I mean do you keep it on all the time or just when chademo is active?
    Would pin7 (12V 500mA) and pin17 (gnd 500mA) of molex 20pin connector suffice for that application?
    How do you connect it?

    tnx

    A
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Isaac96 »

    arber333 wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:23 pm Isaac96 can you suggest where do you connect ISA shunt 12V power to? I mean do you keep it on all the time or just when chademo is active?
    Would pin7 (12V 500mA) and pin17 (gnd 500mA) of molex 20pin connector suffice for that application?
    How do you connect it?

    tnx

    A
    Since I also used it for SOC I ended up using always on power. Typical current draw is under 60ma so not an issue unless vehicle is parked for a long time -- in which case 12v should be shut off anyways.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by CCSknowitall »

    Haven't been on in a while. I'm not as much as a know-it-all for CHAdeMO but will try to help. :)
    P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:44 pm Second is a log on the command/station communication bus.
    chademo bus attempt failed.csv
    In the above log there's no communications from the station, seems you have fixed your CAN termination issues since then.
    P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:24 pm I found part of my problem, but still no sucess charging.

    I realized that the shunt and station communications are the same bus, so I had an extra termination resistor. I pulled that out, but still had issues.

    I also double checked the soldering on the relays, and made sure they were connected.

    This attempt was at an Electrify America station. I got all the way through the process right up to delivering power, and then it failed.

    I got a CAN log and a screen capture, but for some reason its not letting me add the screen capture.

    The web interface is still showing 0% SOC, which I think is the error. I did have the shunt installed backwards for a while. Could I have damaged the shunt, where it is still communicating but not measuring properly?
    You're not requesting any current once the station has gone through cable check and precharge. You need to request current in order to have things start moving, and you need to do so within 6 seconds of contactors closing. Note that this station is saying it's delivering 5A in this log, I can almost guarantee that it is not in fact delivering current.

    Hope this helps. Try some other station manufacturers too, just in case!
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Isaac96 wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:50 pm Since I also used it for SOC I ended up using always on power. Typical current draw is under 60ma so not an issue unless vehicle is parked for a long time -- in which case 12v should be shut off anyways.
    Damn! I just found out schematic in github does not match the pins on my board. It is a Leaf VCU V2 board! :twisted: I had it written there all along...
    I will have to figure out the pinout for chademo use. Is there anyone who uses Leaf V2 board for this purpose?

    tnx
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

    CCSknowitall wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:53 am You're not requesting any current once the station has gone through cable check and precharge. You need to request current in order to have things start moving, and you need to do so within 6 seconds of contactors closing.
    Yeah, I think I've narrowed down the problem to the control board being unhappy with the shunt's data, and thus not requesting current to start.
    CCSknowitall wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:53 am Hope this helps. Try some other station manufacturers too, just in case!
    Thanks for taking a look. I've tried Electrify America and EVGo, same issue at both. That's all that is available in my area.


    As a general update, I snapped an axle in the '40, and had to do some maintenance on my daily before I can repair it, so it'll be another few weeks until I'm testing again.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    arber333 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:00 pm Damn! I just found out schematic in github does not match the pins on my board. It is a Leaf VCU V2 board! :twisted: I had it written there all along...
    I will have to figure out the pinout for chademo use. Is there anyone who uses Leaf V2 board for this purpose?
    @Isaac96 I found instructions on your site, sorry for my rambling...
    I want to ask you, do you think i can connect my ISA, VCU and contactors power directly to pin2 of Chademo plug? Since i would like to make my box standalone that would be wonderfull. No additional 12V needed. Do you think pin 2 could sustain the power?

    tnx
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Isaac96 »

    Pin 2 of Chademo plug? As in the supplied power from the station?

    Pin 7 (proximity) doesn't pull hard enough to ground to activate a standard automotive relay.

    Pin 2 is however intended to send power through the contactors, so it should have at least a few amps of burst capacity (and seems to do fine with uneconomized Leaf contactors). With that in mind it might work just fine!
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Isaac96 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:31 pm Pin 2 of Chademo plug? As in the supplied power from the station?

    Pin 7 (proximity) doesn't pull hard enough to ground to activate a standard automotive relay.

    Pin 2 is however intended to send power through the contactors, so it should have at least a few amps of burst capacity (and seems to do fine with uneconomized Leaf contactors). With that in mind it might work just fine!
    Yes. I mean to use pin7 as a PP plug detect pin.
    Yesterday i went to the closest chademo station (closest is 15km) and tested my setup. I only managed to test the pin7 idea though because i didnt have my card with me :(.
    What i did was use two small 24Vac coil relays. I figure one relay would pull about 80mA only. I would use the first relay to enable 12V from my car to power Leaf VCU and ISA shunt. The second relay i will use as you show on Leaf VCU schematic. I decided to add 1K resistor directly to VCU pins inside the casing. That way it can put 1K pullup from pin2 (+12V) to pin 6 ( contactors active detect)
    And true, when i provided pin7 with GND it started relay to power VCU and ISA. I got voltage data on USB serial report. If i unplugged report would vane after a second.
    Next i will try if i can get reliable 12V from active chademo pins.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Mixed results!
    In the end i wired CHADEMO box to receive 12V power from the car.

    First testing went OK. I connected without DC battery connected and i got satisfying clicks when station tried to measure voltage and isolation. Of course i got an error because DC link was off.
    Next tests were with battery connected. Here the bad starts. Station went through isolation monitoring and paused for a second and innitiated contactors to start charging process. Then almost immediately contactors went offline and station showed: "error, no CAN data from vehicle".
    When i checked from VCU i got "error 32" msg. I am not sure what to do, since when i check the ISA interface everything works.

    @Isaac96, any comments?
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Isaac96 »

    Hmm. Going through isolation and getting contactors on means CAN is working up to that point.
    Error 32 is just "EVSE_STATUS_STOPPED" -- nothing really helpful there, but it means the car didn't throw the error, the station did.

    Hmm. When D2 turns on (goes to ground) it should pull IN2 low. Maybe that polarity is reversed? I had issues when creating the code with all sorts of different hardware (I used some years ago, then used Leaf VCU, then 'official' chademo controller. Lots of different configurations.)
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Isaac96 wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 3:03 pm Hmm. Going through isolation and getting contactors on means CAN is working up to that point.
    Error 32 is just "EVSE_STATUS_STOPPED" -- nothing really helpful there, but it means the car didn't throw the error, the station did.

    Hmm. When D2 turns on (goes to ground) it should pull IN2 low. Maybe that polarity is reversed? I had issues when creating the code with all sorts of different hardware (I used some years ago, then used Leaf VCU, then 'official' chademo controller. Lots of different configurations.)
    I went on and checked ISA output on serial monitor. It doesnt seem to output anything. I tried to innitialize it and hook it up to 14V for voltage measurement and 3A light bulb load for current. It doesnt seem to show anything. And i have two ISA sensors here that behave the same!!!
    Do you know an option to check if ithe sensors work?
    All i get are 0s.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Well that is strange... i get plenty of raw CAN data on Canalyst and when i apply 12V battery or lamp load CAN data changes. Sensor works, its just that my VCU doesnt receive data...
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Isaac96 »

    Which CAN bus are you on? And which firmware version is this? I think I had ISA on one bus and the EVSE on the other bus just to avoid any issue with bus load (also so you can have ISA talking to the rest of the car).
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by arber333 »

    Isaac96 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:54 am Which CAN bus are you on? And which firmware version is this? I think I had ISA on one bus and the EVSE on the other bus just to avoid any issue with bus load (also so you can have ISA talking to the rest of the car).
    There is something strange with VCU. Yesterday i connected via Canalyst tool to 1st CAN bus where i have ISA connected. When i provided pin 7 with pulldown ISA started to operate, but i got nothing out of the second CAN towards CHADEMO. When i persisted i noticed this is only transient and many times i could get good signal out... strange. I also tested this with HV connected and off and i must say failure happened more often if there was HV present.

    On top of that i found a bigger failure... i wired HV+/- cables in mirror :(. No wonder Chademo would throw a flag, it was seeing reverse voltage. I corrected that and i get good positive signal from ISA and i will confirm this in a test.

    EDIT: No joy! i made several tests and there is allways no CAN communication error on EVSE.
    I am connected to ISA via the CAN0 and the second CAN1 i use for Chademo. I see sometimes when PP pin pulls down relay on pin 7 and powers the VCU.
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    Re: Chademo Controller Development

    Post by Bigpie »

    I too am struggling to get chademo working, but notice my HV are opposite to yours.

    Chademo doesn't seem to start sending 0x108 and 0x109 when I try it, my side is sending 0x100, 0x101 and 0x102. Station errors out communicating with the car.

    So back home, if I apply 12v to start 1, my side starts sending out the can messages, if I replay the EVSE side I found online, and pull start 2 to ground my contactors close, it never gets this far at the station.

    This is how my socket is wired looking at it. I've checked and double checked the wiring.
    20220521_181907.jpg
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