openinverter forum

So, JLC stock the ESP8266EX chip used on the wifi module :
https://lcsc.com/product-detail/RF-Tran ... ef=jlc-SMT

And some flash memory.

So I think I'm gonna go and see if I can design a board with integrated Wifi:)

I think I'll throw together a little test board first to purge the usual mistakes like swapped rx/tx etc then go for a full integrated approach.

I know you're excited about what's possible, but do you not think you might be better off with a proven module? Something like this maybe?https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32761375635.html

That would be an additional burden that would eat up your time. Did you consider this?

If you want to go this route i would recommend you copy some ESP that is easier to flash than Olimex. I have in mind Wemos D1 mini or similar.
Schematic on D1 is published online... https://wiki.wemos.cc/_media/products:d ... v3.0.0.pdf

Exactly. The majority of D1 minis available have the ESP-12F module (see the link in my previous post) instead of discrete ESP8266 + flash + PCB antenna etc.

I guess the point is to have JLCPCB populate the wifi components. Do they stock any modules?
No much cost to be saved as an Olimex module is like 4€ in one-off quantities.

Agreed on eating up time, integrating wifi won't be a game changer I suppose

does the wifi really work when installed inside the inverter can and underneath a car?

In my leaf inverter (currently sat on the bench) it makes it out of the inverter housing, through a brick wall, to my router about 10m away.

57 Chevy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:46 pm does the wifi really work when installed inside the inverter can and underneath a car?

It works when buried inside the Tesla inverter case, inches from the motor windings, and underneath the car. I was very sceptical about using wifi in this environment but it seems to work reliably

johu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:07 pm I guess the point is to have JLCPCB populate the wifi components. Do they stock any modules?
No much cost to be saved as an Olimex module is like 4€ in one-off quantities.

One advantage of removing modules is the long term reliability in the automotive environment. If we want to convert millions of cars then we'll need to embrace some of the reliability techniques that have been developed in the last ~100 years.

From a different perspective...

Wifi is something I have screwed up. I fried a board. I connected RX and TX backwards. Probably a few other mistakes. I also had to be skeptical of it which added greatly to the "what if" network of troubleshooting other problems I had, that would've been a lot shorter chain if I had confidence that wifi and the wifi board wasn't the problem (in the end, it wasn't).

So... not to put words in your mouth, but it seems that the least enjoyable part of this open source EV movement is the service. Every different person can have a different problem a different way. It's not fun to troubleshoot, it's not interesting to solve other people's problems, it's not enjoyable to see people get roadblocked by their incompetence.

And in that light, having integrated wifi is a fantastic idea:
- It's so much less that the rest of us will do wrong.
- It's less documentation we need to write.
- It's fewer questions to answer.
- When something goes wrong, it's easier to diagnose.
- It's probably cheaper.

It's extra work to integrate, but, consider that for the time it takes to integrate, all of 2 or 3 people needing troubleshooting waste more time than that.

That said, most of those problems are not your problem, they're community problems. Whereas, the person redesigning the boards to include wifi is you. That said, how often do you end up doing the troubleshooting anyway?

57 Chevy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:46 pm does the wifi really work when installed inside the inverter can and underneath a car?

Inside inverter, under hood and through a firewall. Every day.

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:26 pm One advantage of removing modules is the long term reliability in the automotive environment. If we want to convert millions of cars then we'll need to embrace some of the reliability techniques that have been developed in the last ~100 years.

Conversely one of the advantages of using modules is that they are well tested, ubiquitous and can save you a ton of development headaches. I'd compare using a quality module for hardware to using a quality library for your software. If you need X - use this. It means you can get on with what you do best whilst leaving the bits that support your core area to experts in that other field. Sure you could roll your own everything and I know that floats some people's boat

There was a reason I linked that particular module, mainly because it's FCC approved (https://fccid.io/2AHMR-ESP12F) and the company that produces it is very active, that's the second iteration of the PCB trace aerial. Does Damian really want to be dicking around with wifi range issues?

doobedoobedo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:46 pm Does Damian really want to be dicking around with wifi range issues?

I think his motivation is clear (it's a test board) and maybe we should just respect that and be grateful he's prepared to share so much of his development work

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:23 pm So I think I'm gonna go and see if I can design a board with integrated Wifi:)

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:32 am

doobedoobedo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:46 pm Does Damian really want to be dicking around with wifi range issues?

I think his motivation is clear (it's a test board) and maybe we should just respect that and be grateful he's prepared to share so much of his development work

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:23 pm So I think I'm gonna go and see if I can design a board with integrated Wifi:)

I think either you missed my point, or I could have made it better, probably the latter.
My point was that if you want a board with integrated wifi, then there are already good solutions, that one PCB trace used for the aerial will have had many man hours in it's development, the rest is standard stuff.

The original post had the tone of "look what I found on LCSC, it'd be fun roll my own wifi". If that's the case, then I'd say go for it if rolling your own is what you'd enjoy. but there is also https://lcsc.com/product-detail/WIFI-Mo ... 82891.html if what you want is just integrated wifi.

Wow. Wasn't expecting this. So firstly I wasn't asking permission. While LCSC do stock a module and indeed JLC do share quite a bit of the same inventory, wifi modules are not among them. Probably as they don't work easily with tape and reel. The logic here is this : the less I (or anyone else) has to touch these boards the better. The cheaper they can be made the better.

Right now wifi consists of :
1)Order modules from Olimex +shipping
2)unpack and program modules
3)store modules
4)Buy through hole headers and pay shipping
5)Hand solder in the through hole header
6)Fit wifi module to board
7)Power up board and check wifi is working

If the wifi components are integrated on the pcb then it becomes :

1)Receive boards from JLC
2)Unpack boards
3)Program wifi and stm32 with Tag connect header : https://www.tag-connect.com (did i mention all new boards will have tag connect jtag?)
4)Power up and test board
5)Ship board to customer
6)Retire to Lanzarote on the profits.

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:57 pm 6)Retire to Lanzarote on the profits.

I hope that happens

That tag connect thing looks pro

Less man hours required later could be a good idea to design integrated wifi..

I think it is cool idea! Use 802.11B - it will reach further, and probably doesn't care much about antenna accuracy

Both power (20.5dbm max) and standard can be set in Arduino code:

The olimex wifi module didn't work in my inverter. Got no signal at all!!
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=186#p2349

Had to put it on the outside.....

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:16 pm It works when buried inside the Tesla inverter case, inches from the motor windings, and underneath the car. I was very sceptical about using wifi in this environment but it seems to work reliably

Thanks Kevin, that's quite impressive. My TV is six feet away from the router through a drywall and 60% of the time it works every time.

In Leaf inverter it's also reachable from outside but I must be close to the car. Will try the 11B option, didn't know it was more stable.

I had to be near the back of the car to get a reliable connection. I added a nodemcu as a wifi repeater in the trunk and I can be a few yards away from the car now.

Did you make change in the code? Seriously 802.11b will go through anything, lead, metal, your skull