openinverter forum

so there I was, left all alone unsupervised, "don't do it, don't you dare click on Facebook Marketplace" said the voices in my head, "go ahead, it won't hurt to [ahem] just look" they retorted - sometimes I talk to myself, cause I need expert advice, you know

at this time in my life I needed another car project like a hole in my head, especially yet another EV Conversion - I'm looking at you Damien Maguire you seed planter you!

... and there she was "Snow White" as I would affectionally call her [sometimes... among a million other things] and she was perfect, checked all the boxes too:

Not red... ✔
Not wrecked... ✔
Not running... ✔
Not gasoline powered (pronounced: diesel) ... ✔
Not four doored... ✔
Not rusted... (well let's not split hairs)
Not too far away... well... you get the idea

She was listed for $1,500 and I am not the type to negotiate over the phone, so I negotiated via Facebook Messenger, I hit him with $1,250 and he said he would do $1,350... I said maybe, then once there after a thorough 30 second inspection I pointed out a grapefruit sized hole in the rear floor pan and we shook on $1K provided I could get her registered back in California since it was a Cali car registered out of state [insert your favorite avoid registration back fees evil scheme here] many many hours and $264 bucks later at the local DMV I had an * INCOMPLETE APPLICATION * for the Title, meaning they would issue me one once I got the VIN verified, all vehicles entering or reentering California must get a VIN verification.

VIDEO TABLE OF CONTENTS

MOUNTING THE MOTOR

• 1984 VW MK1 Rabbit DIY EV Conversion Toyota Prius Electric Motor Mounts 1

• 1984 Voltswagen Rabbit DIY EV Conversion Electric Motor Mounts 2

• 1984 Voltswagen Rabbit DIY EV Conversion Electric Motor Mounts 3

• 1984 Voltswagen Rabbit DIY EV Conversion Electric Motor Mounts 4

FITTING THE BATTERY PACK

• 84 VW MK1 Rabbit Battery Pack Install

INSTALLING THE INVERTER


INSTALLING THE CHAGER\DC-DC CONVERTER


lets keep a running tally of the costability

COST	DESCRIPTION	SOURCE
$1,000	car	Facebook Marketplace
...$200	Sold engine & trans	Facebook Marketplace
...$815	2018 BMW 330e battery	eBay ($750 plus tax)
...$260	Regular 12 volt car battery	O'Reilly
...$200	2010 Prius Transaxle aka Motor	Junkyard
...$190	2020 Mitsubishi Outlander Charger	eBay UK ($120 plus shipping)
...$100	2011 Prius Transmission Wire Harness	Junkyard
....$80	2011 Prius drive shafts	Junkyard
....$50	2010 Prius Inverter with pigtails	Junkyard
.....$0	2011 Prius Throttle Pedal with pigtail	Junkyard
$2,510	TOTAL

here she is as listed

Love this. Facebook Marketplace is indeed dangerous. I always agree to buy stuff before my brain manages to catch up and decide that nothing good will come of it.

Nice! What are you going to put in her?

robertwa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:54 pm Nice! What are you going to put in her?

well... so glad you asked because this will be a Build By Committee, a BBC (side note: don't google that, it's not a thing)

if we could get Mr. Johannes Hübner to implement a vote feature on this ol' forum we could have us all come up with a bunch of different motor/vcu/charger/dc-dc/battery pack combos and then we would all vote on it, and once all the votes were in, I would go ahead and install whatever I found a good deal on at the junkyard regardless of your input, ha ha, jk

For science, I would vote you put a prius unit in there with zombie control. Welded PSD just to see what it can do.

Bigpie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:13 pm For science, I would vote you put a prius unit in there with zombie control. Welded PSD just to see what it can do.

Luv It ! and I am Prius leaning at this juncture, which gen? Johannes rocked the Gen 2 I think in the Audi A2 Lab Update #56: Audi A2 project intro however Damien welded up a Gen 3 Prius Transaxle Modification

Gen 3 Prius decided. I'll close the thread now

Bigpie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:03 pm Gen 3 Prius decided. I'll close the thread now

RESOURCES

I will try to attach as many files as I can to this post.

• 2010 Toyota Prius Engine Controls - Hybrid System Circuit (Powertrain Management) aka Inverter Wiring Diagram

• 2010 Toyota Prius MG1 Wiring Diagram Dumbed Down Edition

Putting the LEAF stack into a VW Golf seems very tempting if you look at Bratitude's cabrio conversion. It seems with his stub axles, you might be able to use the factory VW axles. This combination might make for one of the easiest FWD conversions given that you need to do zero precision fabrication work. I like the idea of a conversion where possessing only basic welding skills is enough to be successful.

I need to ask if those stub axles work with a variety of VWs - I think an EOS with the retractable hard top would make a wonderful little EV if all the LEAF stuff fit under the hood and if there was room for batteries.

lsh3rd wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:26 am Putting the LEAF stack into a VW Golf seems very tempting if you look at Bratitude's cabrio conversion. It seems with his stub axles, you might be able to use the factory VW axles. This combination might make for one of the easiest FWD conversions given that you need to do zero precision fabrication work. I like the idea of a conversion where possessing only basic welding skills is enough to be successful.

I need to ask if those stub axles work with a variety of VWs - I think an EOS with the retractable hard top would make a wonderful little EV if all the LEAF stuff fit under the hood and if there was room for batteries.

Leaf stack fits very well with the stock axles using my stubs, outlander rear motor would work great too (have stubs for also)

But! I vote Prius…. There are just soooo many available…. I’m too busy to dive into Prius stuff, but there should be more real world r&d on these things… seeing if they are really worth the time! greg documentation would be awesome

Definitely it needs to be Prius! In think gen2 with welded psd and powering mg1 and 2 would be my choice. It will be simpler than gen3, purely because once the psd on gen 2 is welded both mg1 and mg2 will spin as the same speed and more evenly contribute torque to the reduction gears,

The gen3 uses an additional planetary reduction on mg2 and less of a reduction between the psd and diff , if you weld gears in the spider on mg1 on a gen 3 you loose the planetary reduction at that motor meaning it is forced to run approx 4 times slower than mg2 and contribute a 1/4 of the torque that it could….
I remember seeing a build thread where this was tried and mg1 barely had the torque to move the car… I’ll go looking for this in a min. Now you could potentially lock the input shaft on mg1 instead of welding the psd and then mg1 planetary reduction is intact and mg1 and mg2 will run at similar speeds the 2 reductions are different so they aren’t quite the same. The issue with locking the input shaft however is that this is what drives the oil pump so oiling for the bearings would need a solution, my idea would be to remove the oil pump from the end of the casing, withdraw the oil pump drive shaft grind the slpines off the end that interface with end of the input shaft then create a friction fit sleeve the can be fitted on the shaft and press into the internal bore of mg2, this would make the oil pump drive from mg2 instead.. alternatively you could use and electric pump,…

viewtopic.php?t=1735

I take it you were thinking of using gen3 because the gen3 inverter is supported by the zombie? Make senses

Twin motors using oi boards are no longer supported with the latest firmware (used to be able to use one oi board with analog throttle and slave the second via can) now you’ll need an additional vcu to handle the throttle and spit out suitable can messages.

Tesla small drive unit between rear wheels? Too much work?

mane2 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:53 am Tesla small drive unit between rear wheels? Too much work?

Yes. The rear axle setup of the Rabbit is not at all made for RWD.

Note To Self: Wow, people really seem to like these cars, don't screw this up!

Lessons Learned: UHAUL Sucks !!!

so get this, after I bought the car me and the seller drove around his town and none of the UHAUL (U-Haul is an American moving truck, trailer, and self-storage rental company) places would rent us a car dolly to transport this beauty home. They said these dollys were only for people who would return them to the same UHAUL location they borrowed them from. Please make that make sense. So I want to move from California to Tejas and then I have to drive back to return this stupid thing?

Have any of youz had similar experience?

Top Tip: when buying a car on the InterWebs in a remote location tell the seller you live far away and can't see it in person and ask for more pictures, this will tell you two things:

1. How willing is the seller to work with you, is she difficult, does she have the personality of a serial killer?

2. You get to see more of the car!


and then you will get more quality vertigo shots like this:

Ev8 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:19 am viewtopic.php?t=1735

I take it you were thinking of using gen3 because the gen3 inverter is supported by the zombie? Make senses

Twin motors using oi boards are no longer supported with the latest firmware (used to be able to use one oi board with analog throttle and slave the second via can) now you’ll need an additional vcu to handle the throttle and spit out suitable can messages.

thank you for that info, yes I own two EVBMW Zombie Verters one will go in the car the other will be for bench testing, I learned this on my truck as it became a PIA to keep moving the GS450h VCU circus board back and forth and it really took a beating, I think I actually knocked the little resistor off of it cause it was sticking up like a foot off the board, ha ha

I used the "I already own all this extra EV crap" to justify buying this car so I might as well use it


Supported OEM Hardware
Nissan Leaf Gen1/2/3 inverter via CAN
Nissan Leaf Gen2 PDM (Charger and DCDC)
chademo
VW PHEV EBox shunt
BMW SBox module
CCS DC fast charge via BMW i3 LIM - currently type 2 only, type 1 under development
Lexus GS450h inverter / gearbox via sync serial
Toyota Prius/Yaris/Auris Gen 3 inverters via sync serial
outlander obc (on board charger, dcdc converter)
Mitsubishi outlander motors/inverter
subaru can support
1998-2005 BMW 3-series (E46) CAN support
1996-2003 BMW 5-series (E39) CAN support
2001-2008 BMW 7-series (E65) CAN Support
Mid-2000s VAG CAN support
Opel Ampera / Chevy Volt 6.5kw cabin heater

Gregski wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:05 pm if we could get Mr. Johannes Hübner to implement a vote feature on this ol' forum we could have us all come up with a bunch of different motor/vcu/charger/dc-dc/battery pack combos and then we would all vote on it, and once all the votes were in, I would go ahead and install whatever I found a good deal on at the junkyard regardless of your input, ha ha, jk

If you edit your opening post you should find a tab called Poll next to Attachments

Gregski wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:34 pm Lessons Learned: UHAUL Sucks !!!

so get this, after I bought the car me and the seller drove around his town and none of the UHAUL (U-Haul is an American moving truck, trailer, and self-storage rental company) places would rent us a car dolly to transport this beauty home. They said these dollys were only for people who would return them to the same UHAUL location they borrowed them from. Please make that make sense. So I want to move from California to Tejas and then I have to drive back to return this stupid thing?

Have any of youz had similar experience?

I've had all sorts of fun with UHaul rentals. Typically I've gotten the full trailer not the dolly, but still plenty of difficulty.

What I have heard, and frankly I don't remember quite when/where, is that the auto trailers (and I guess dollys too) are owned and/or leased by the individual locations, and while UHaul does have a method for accounting for/transferring them when someone needs to move long distance, its strongly discouraged and there is a ridiculous rate attached.

I have also experienced that UHaul's corporate systems and customer service leave much to be desired, and if you get the right person at the location, and catch them in the right mood, they can help with things that corporate won't. There are still some things the system just will not let them do.

Ev8 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:58 amIt will be simpler than gen3, purely because once the psd on gen 2 is welded both mg1 and mg2 will spin as the same speed and more evenly contribute torque to the reduction gears,

You two posts here sum up YEARS worth of various threads that I've never been able to keep track of and that no one has bothered to summarize or document. Thank you for the excellent state-of-affairs post.

Looks like the Gen2 transaxle and maybe the Gen3 inverter is the way to go? Or, I guess if you don't need the extra power, Gen2 of both is fine.

Gen3 inverter is apparently more fragile and you're slightly more likely to buy a dud.

I'll add that the Gen3 inverter allows (requires) setting some dead time between the on/off inverting cycles, where the Gen2 inverter does not and, in fact it would ignore this because the Gen2 does not give you control over both sides of the cycle, it automatically mirrors the negative side to whatever the positive side did when its its turn. This doesn't matter at their current development, but, IIRC it's a reason that the Gen2 inverter will never be a universal inverter that doubles as a charger at all voltages and the Gen3 might be? Which doesn't matter really, because I don't think Damien's done any development on the Gen3 in 4+ years. Johannes likewise hasn't done any development on the Gen2 since his initial run. Though, documentation being the inspiration, perhaps that may change (versus, Damien's elbow-deep reverse-engineering anything he can get his greasy Irish fingers on and 10 projects deep already).

Also, the Gen2 inverter pairs with the Gen2 A/C system, its pump has a 3-phase motor but the inverter for it is inside the main inverter. This versus the Gen3 A/C has its inverter built into the motor/pump and only requires a simple PWM signal to run. There's some documentation on the signals (I think there's an A/C thread), but neither is implemented anywhere that I know of.

Gregski wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:34 pm once all the votes were in, I would go ahead and install whatever I found a good deal on at the junkyard regardless of your input,

I'd almost just do the exact opposite of whatever the poll said. You're not the boss of me!

Lessons Learned: UHAUL Sucks !!!

UHaul is a mixed bag.

There are some big corporate-owned locations, but like, 90% of the small locations are just run by whatever business puts them on their lot and staffs the counter.

They may care about customer service, or they may be surly losers that wouldn't lift a finger if it didn't benefit their specific location.

When I bought my cars in Arizona, my plan was to use a car dolly to tow them home. Didn't really think anything of it, there's usually a small relocation fee for not returning a UHaul back to the same location.

When I actually got to Arizona and called around, it was something like $25/day to rent the car dolly, and like $450 relocation fee to dump it in Canada as I'd planned to. It's all built into the UHaul website, it's certainly a thing you can do, but apparently expensive, maybe depends on traffic flows to/from those locations.

What I ended up doing was just buying an old car trailer, the one my car was already sitting on, for $500.

The thing about a car trailer is, it's probably worth the same amount anywhere that you buy or sell it. Plus, who couldn't use an extra car trailer?

In my case I could've flipped it for $3000 the day I got back, but, I sold it to a dollar to a friend who's always helped me in the past.

...

Either white, it seems to have made it to your home. Cute little thing.

Need to drop some LSD and cue up some Alice in Wonderland and Jefferson Airplane every day you work on her. Here, I'll help:

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:35 pm I'd almost just do the exact opposite of whatever the poll said. You're not the boss of me!

I just spewed coffee out of my nose...

Gregski wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:43 pmI just spewed coffee out of my nose...

I almost quoted that.

Also you're too quick, I was busy adding more info to my previous post.

The 1.something fire breathing diesel enjin, coming to a Craigslist near you !


with more enjin crap in the trunk... [ahem, pardon me] the boot