openinverter forum

For those of you who keep your finger on the Charging Standards Wars CSWs pulse [aka Tesla vs the rest of the world] you know that recently there have been some $urpri$ing developments. Some of you may be old enuff to recall the VHS vs Betamax battle, and we all know who won that. Well Tesla winning is what it would have been like if Betamax prevaled.

Having said that, here's the question so can regular folks, us mere mortals, non Tesla owners pull up to a Tesla public charger with our _____________ fill in the blank flavor EV Conversions and charge, or do we have to own a Tesla (or is it pretentious: "Tezla" with a 'z' ? lol)

In Europe, partially, Yes. Modern European Teslas are fitted with a CCS 2 socket (not sure when they started), so most (all?) Tesla Super Chargers will have CCS2 plug. Older Teslas can be retrofitted to support CCS communication but require the use of an adaptor also.

So some of the Super Charger sites allow 3rd party use, but not all. None have Chademo, so CCS only. You have to use the Tesla app to pay at the moment, there's no card machines I believe.

The short answer is "Not yet" in North America.

The longer answer I've spent a lot of time thinking about and trying to plan for.

Here's what we know:
- The publicly published NACS standard from Tesla confirmed that they are now using the CCS communication protocols.
- Stations with the "Magic Dock" can charge any car with CCS
- The automakers that have made deals with Tesla for Supercharger access have mentioned app integration
- The automakers that have made deals with Tesla for Supercharger access have mentioned that next year they will offer NACS-CCS adapters for their cars.
- Nearly all Tesla stations do not have a way to initiate charge on the physical station
- There have been sightings of newer Superchargers with a card reader.


Here's what we don't know:
- Once the NACS-CCS adapters roll out, will it be possible to add cars to the Tesla app that are not from a company that has made a deal with Tesla? i.e. can you add "other CCS car" or will you only be able to pick "Ford Lightning" or "Chevrolet Bolt" etc.
- If you can add an "other CCS car" to the app, will it allow you to initiate charge at a non-MagicDock station?
- Will there be more stations rolled out with card readers for charge initiation?
- Will there be more magic dock stations?


In short, based on what we know about the standard as it currently stands (its CCS with a different port shape), the major question is How can we initiate a charging session for a non-Tesla? Otherwise, it looks like we could, in theory, hook up an i3 LIM to a NACS port and charge successfully.

We won't really know this until they actually start rolling out these adapters and allowing other manufacturers' access sometime next year. I'm hoping that by that point, I've got a test rig ready and can start trying to figure this out.

(I'm really hoping we'll be able to make this work because there are so many classic cars where the NACS port will fit so much better than a CCS port)

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:13 pm - Once the NACS-CCS adapters roll out, will it be possible to add cars to the Tesla app that are not from a company that has made a deal

In Europe, that's pretty much how it works, it's all though the app.

Bigpie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:24 pm In Europe, that's pretty much how it works, it's all though the app.

That's what gives me hope, but I'm concerned by the phrasing in all these announcements of deals here in the states that they may do something different and only open it to cars from manufacturers that have made a deal with them.

Oh yes, I see what you mean, but they opened the standard, so anyone could use it without a deal with them. I would take that as something to be hopeful about

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:53 pm That's what gives me hope, but I'm concerned by the phrasing in all these announcements of deals here in the states that they may do something different and only open it to cars from manufacturers that have made a deal with them.

Then we need to figure out how to pretend you're charging a Ford F150 or other "deal" car

johu wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:21 pm Then we need to figure out how to pretend you're charging a Ford F150 or other "deal" car

One step at a time! We've got to see if it's an issue first. Then shenanigans.

(also, the issue there will likely be that the standard does support plug and charge (though it sounds like they may not currently use it) and if we need to emulate some other car, we may have a payment/identification problem)

glad to see the discussion happening, here is the video that planted the seed of curiosity in my noggin

First of all not all Tesla charger were created equal, I think most of us think of these types of see through beauties when we think of Tesla chargers

and rightly so, but these are not just chargers, these are SuperChargers, and they are NOT for us, non Tesla owners!

Besides Tesla Superchargers, Tesla owners can also take advantage of the company’s network of Destination Chargers. Destination Chargers are installed by Tesla’s ‘Charging Partners.’ pronounced "Hotels"

Charging Partners are usually business or land owners who choose to install a Tesla Wall Connector on their property for public use.

Destination Chargers have a slower charging speed than Superchargers. Depending on how much charge is left on your Tesla’s battery, a Destination Charge can take anywhere from one to 12 hours to fully charge your vehicle.

Gregski wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:53 pm Destination Chargers have a slower charging speed than Superchargers. Depending on how much charge is left on your Tesla’s battery, a Destination Charge can take anywhere from one to 12 hours to fully charge your vehicle.

It's my understanding that the destination chargers are AC charging using the onboard charger, vs the Supercharger's DC fast charging.

Effectively:
Destination=J1772 for Teslas (and others with adapter I think?)
Supercharger=CCS for Teslas (and soon others)

We already have CCS to NACS adapters (allowing Teslas to charge at a CCS station) so presumably the reverse would be relatively simple.

oh great, so now there's a Third Type of a Tesla Charger, TToaTC


We Tested Tesla’s NEWEST V4 Supercharger In the United States!