[DRIVING] The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Ok, thanks lads. Seem.to have a consensus here. I'll rejig my setup and give it another go. Makes total sence to have stable 12v as you are going through the motions in the start up sequence. Cheers.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by johu »

Yes makes sense to have a separate current path. I burned multiple precharge resistors by running DC/DC over the resistor even with no 12V load. Now I enable it once the main contactor closes and rely on the battery to provide stable 12V until then.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Jack Bauer »

Not in any way trying to be confrontational here.I'll just ask one question if I may. What could go wrong?
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by johu »

You mean when enabling the DC/DC converter after closing the DC switch?
Of course in that case there is no precharging. Do they need that? The Meanwell power supply I use does precharging internally. Apart from that if the 12V battery is nearly depleted you'd have issues starting up because there's not enough voltage to close the switches. Anything I forgot?

The reason why I did this is to have no hot wires between front and back when the car is turned off. It's not a TÜV requirement though, just something I wanted.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by SciroccoEV »

I and others used to use a 'bootstrap' switch in conversions in the 90's to manually power up the DC/DC from the HV battery if the 12v battery was flat.

A little known fact is that the GM EV1 had just such a switch hidden under the dash.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Isaac96 »

I hope those were double pole switches? Else there's no isolation between LV and HV systems.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by zippy500 »

Are the HV and DC plugs available to buy ? (for the DC/DC converter )
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

zippy500 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:40 am Are the HV and DC plugs available to buy ? (for the DC/DC converter )
For the TDK? Will need a bit of searching but here is the spec sheet for the Yazaki 7325-6795-51 HV plug
https://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/3735954895071245097

I got a few of the grey 10 way plugs from Alibaba.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 25a0hNCmPd
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Ok, update time.

The one job I kept putting off... well two. Drop the rear pack and get it seated with no movement, bond EVA foam to point of contact locations between pack and chassis rails to help, paint the battery straps and seal the interface between pack and spare wheel well. Easy!! Ha! When it was all complete, I was well happy though. The pack now sits snuggly where the petrol tank used to sit. No movement. The boot/pack interface was made from a electrical box and some more aluminium fabrication. Main aim here was to seal the void between the hole in the battery box and the boot space but making it servicable. Now, If I need to drop the pack, I can do just that. I know its a bit of a bodge but, If I had a better budget (reminder... I have none left :lol: ) I would have fitted nice and shiny HV plugs and sockets...ooooh.... shiny!
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I do still have a bit of a gap where the BMS wires come in but, that's for another day... when I drop the pack and swap the BMS I think (I know) has one or two fried chips. No dip though....
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Next up, the decision to run coolant front to rear. Frowned upon, possibly but were not dealing with ICE temperatures. I did ponder having a mini loop for the charger here in the back with associated rad where the rear silencer used to be but, I thought I would try this first. I also added a 2nd aux pump to run while charging separate from the main pump up front. 1st pump (Golf) I fitted rattled... bin. 2nd pump (BMW 3 series) stopped working... bin. 3rd pump 5 series.... annnnnd breath. We are good. The breakers yard were great though. Ended up with a far superior part then I originally I paid for :lol:
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So, Tesla HVJB in. Plumbing in. Batt pack in. Next up, how to fix the charger in place. Ladies and gents, please say hello again to upcyled Leaf battery pack parts! Yes. They are 2 pack module end plates, chopped, bent and welded to form... a Tesla Gen 2 charger chassis and voila! Here it is in all its glory.
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Up front, I have tidied up all the loose signalling wiring and with the help of Kevin, worked out my brain block of how to enable the DC/DC after main contactor.
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To get ready for the upcoming NCT (MOT) I needed new tyres and my bro stepped up and made a donation. Thanks man!
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All wired up, we set up for the first charge. I have put a bit of detail in the Tesla Charger thread but, all went fine. I have it kind of manual at the mo. I flick a switch in the boot which turns on the charger and pump then I plug the J1772 into the port. I kept the charge slow at first, around 1.2kW to monitor the cooling effect of my setup. I bumped it up to 3.4kW for a while and found the temps raised a good bot to ~65 degrees on the 3 x phase modules, 35 deg on the casing and 25 deg on the output flow. I played around with the cooling setup again today, recharged the coolant system with a venturi pressure fill system and today, the flow/return barely went past 15deg after an hour. One thing I did notice and that I will need to amend is the 12v supply. The pump running after 3 hours finally drops below 11v and then the charger starts to flick on/off ending the session. WIll need to look at some others setup to see how to overcome this on long slow charging sessions.
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Now back on its wheels and pretty much there, I had the auto engineer call by for the final sign off. After an hour of looking top to bottom, he gave it a thumbs up! Delighted! I swear... it was like a final exam. I was bricking it before he came to look it over. Nothing to worry about in the end. Gave it full marks from a build perspective. Done!
Last thing though to get ready for the NCT is the brakes. If you remember, I had the TRW ps pump feeding the steering and hydraulic brake accumulator (bomb) used in Audi's from about 88' to '95. They went back to regular vac servo boost much like the rest of the world. Well, there has been very little in the way of any brake boost, unless you turn the wheel at the same time... So, as luck would have it a former New Electric course attendee who knows his brake systems came to have a look and after a number of hours, we concluded... swap it out for the 10" vacuum servo from the same era, a vac pump from one of many VW/Audi/BMW's of any time, 3 chamber vacuum reservoir and associated valves, bits and bobs. Ah well... I would like brakes so, I'll haggle with the breakers to see what I can come up with. If anyone though does have a '95 Audi A6 C4 lying about, let me know! PN# 4A0612105P ;)
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by johu »

Nice work, maybe good thing you didn't have funds for connectors - one thing more to go wrong ;)
Couldn't you just add a tiny 12V/5A switch mode power supply to keep your 12V up and running?
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Thanks johannes. You're probably right😁
Yeah, I resorted to an external power supply after to get me over the line. I'll look into something simple like that in the boot later on.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Jack Bauer »

Just activate the dcdc during charge. Done:)
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Argh.... back to divisive the before/after contactors debate.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Alibro »

Great update. Good to hear you're still making progress.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Jack Bauer »

Nothing should be connected to the hv battery before contactors. Period. No oem does that.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Jack Bauer wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:15 am Nothing should be connected to the hv battery before contactors. Period. No oem does that.
Yep. Agree with you and I remember we discussed this on the course and its how I wired my set up. I am in the dark however as to how you enable dcdc to provide 12v power to the charge circuit when the contactors are open.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Jack Bauer »

Are you using the vcu for contactor control? If so just use either in1 or in2 as a charger hv request. precharge and close contactors but disable can messaging to the inverter so no fear of a drive off. I'll be doing similar in the E46 touring soon.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

Gotcha. Yes, I am using V1.5 with contactor control. I'll give that a go using IN2 but may end up keeping an eye on how you get on with the E46 and VCU software update.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

SO, while I wait for the motor tax office to make up their mind about reclassification to an ev (at this point, it is an exercise in me proving in the form of confirmation from Audi main dealers that of course they will not sign off and certify Japanese and Wexford parts in one of their marques... ) and waiting for the new brake boost system to arrive, I have been investigating a little issue surrounding the Leaf BMS.

If you will remember, I decided to stick with the Leaf BMS as the layout I was going for would enable me to retain the voltage tap layout with the addition of 2 x BMS adapter cables from the front pack to the rear, linking up to the main unit back there. I painstakingly picked apart the Left and RIght hand 24 modules and associated BMS wiring and rearranged in the 20 modules up front and the 4 in the mini pack where the airbox used to be.

During this process of wiring up the pins in the plugs... well... let's just say there might have been a little short between two pins. A second of a spark and a facepalm. Thought nothing of it until I came to plug it all together and attach the Packsniffer 2 from Wolftronix which had originally given me 93.7% Health and 50% SOC from this 2015 24kWh pack. Well now, it's giving me very different results! :?

So, here is the layout, Packsniffer 2 results and Pack Schematic with broken orange boxes showing the break up of the modules around the car
Audi8eBMS1.JPG
Audi8eBMS2.JPG
Audi8eBMS3.JPG
Audi8eBMS4.JPG
I packaged all this detail together and contacted Wolf himself. He had been really helpful in the past getting me setup and in turn, me testing some things out for him to create a new version of the firmware.
So here is his bit of insight. He identified that the 511V = 0x1FF in hex... So he reckons my BMS no longer has a working LIN bus, highly likely due to either A: that little issue I had or B: a greater issue in the 'mini pack' which I rearranged a number of times has resulted in a wiring mistake more than likely damaged one (or more) of the balance/monitor chips.

Therefore, I have to embrace the fact, I need drain coolant system, remove charger, disconnect the hv cables to allow me to to drop the rear pack, prise it open and, take the BMS out, investigate and hopefully, using the locations of the parts that died, identify the point where the voltage taps are mixed up :cry: I have already decided to rewire the BMS so it sits in the spare wheel well for easy access next time.

So, the call goes out... does anyone have Leaf BMS they could sell me?? Thanks all!
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Jack Bauer wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:15 am Nothing should be connected to the hv battery before contactors. Period. No oem does that.
Well... not exactly. Ampera Volt has main contactors separated from the 3x small 10A HV relays. They bring power to DCDC, precharge and charger. Charger and DCDC +HV connection is additiuonaly fused by 20A fuse.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by johu »

I feel your pain :(
I have a partly damaged "black" Leaf BMS (i.e. where one of the cell voltage input jacks is black) that you could use for parts. It works fine on its logic side but I think 2 balance chips and a few passives need swapping to make it good again.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Cookie6000 »

johu wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:18 pm I feel your pain :(
I have a partly damaged "black" Leaf BMS (i.e. where one of the cell voltage input jacks is black) that you could use for parts. It works fine on its logic side but I think 2 balance chips and a few passives need swapping to make it good again.
Thanks for the offer Johannes. Appreciate it :) I'll get the BMS out first and confirm the PN's to make sure they are similar.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Boxster EV »

arber333 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:19 am
Jack Bauer wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:15 am Nothing should be connected to the hv battery before contactors. Period. No oem does that.
Well... not exactly. Ampera Volt has main contactors separated from the 3x small 10A HV relays. They bring power to DCDC, precharge and charger. Charger and DCDC +HV connection is additiuonaly fused by 20A fuse.
So is it acceptable to stick the Volt APM module behind the main contactor, as I would prefer that - clearly safer. However when I tried last time it had a tendency to occasionally pull more than 20 amps and fry fuses.

Been running it in front of contactor for past 6 months and had no issue.

Sorry for the thread hijack Cookie.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Boxster EV wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:29 pm So is it acceptable to stick the Volt APM module behind the main contactor, as I would prefer that - clearly safer. However when I tried last time it had a tendency to occasionally pull more than 20 amps and fry fuses.

Been running it in front of contactor for past 6 months and had no issue.

Sorry for the thread hijack Cookie.
Like i said in your thread, i too use APM and charger connected to input side of main contactor with a 20A fuse on the line. i use 6mm2 cable for better state of mind. The other side is connected directly to -HV.
My DUE is sending CAN telegram for DCDC as soon as i start 1st key position and i trigger APM ON with enable signal in 2nd key position. This allows me to have all 12V stable and working before i turn the key in START position and actually start the inverter, HPAS pump and vacuum pump.
This also means DCDC is actually ON together with inverter precharge, but it doesnt matter since all the current runs directly to DCDC and precharge is over in like 2s.

I do have a connector in the back to disconnect DCDC from HV but it is under cover and i use it only for servicing. Beware ! you need to protect that connector from direct touch!

Also i made a contact box in the back where i assemble all HV lines in the back for better routing. There i connect small wires with a 10A fuse and connect 5A 12V ACDC PSU. It is allways connected and usually voltage on the aux battery is over 13V. But if aux voltage sags below 12V this keeps the smallish battery up when car is not in use and i forget door lights or something. It also gives the power for the coolant pump and other aux elements in charge mode.
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Re: The Audi 8e - Powered by Leaf

Post by Extremetaz »

Howdy Cookie - Alibro got your distress call to me.
I have a couple of ZE0 BMS's here. Both functional at the point of removal.
Better to attempt the repair using Johu's 'parts' offer first rather than risk frying another one though would be my initial thinking though.
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