[DRIVING] 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

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P.S.Mangelsdorf
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[DRIVING] 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

I am working on a 1940 Chevrolet coupe which will be getting a Tesla LDU with Damien's control board, as soon as I have the money for both.

Other planned components:
-LG Chem Chrysler Pacifica batteries
-Orion BMS and Elcon charger, providing CHADEMO and J1772

Goals:
-1st EV Conversion on Hot Rod Drag Week
-NEDRA Record hunting
-local bracket racing

I'll add some photos soon
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

1940 Chevrolet w/ Tesla LDU - "Shocking Chevy" - Completed 2023 Hot Rod Drag Week
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

Picked up suspension parts this weekend, I'll post photos when I get a chance.

I'm going to be using the suspension from a 2004-06 Pontiac GTO, so that I can use the LDU in its original orientation and location.

Now to cut out the old live axle, narrow the GTO stuff, build mounts, pick up a motor, build more mounts.....
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

1940 Chevrolet w/ Tesla LDU - "Shocking Chevy" - Completed 2023 Hot Rod Drag Week
57 Chevy
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by 57 Chevy »

Did you find the LDU cad model online? A lot of effort saved if you build a model first.

I'm doing similar with a 57 Chevy wagon.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:01 am Did you find the LDU cad model online? A lot of effort saved if you build a model first.

I'm doing similar with a 57 Chevy wagon.
Agreed... links now in the Wiki;

https://openinverter.org/wiki/Tesla_CAD_Models
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:01 am Did you find the LDU cad model online? A lot of effort saved if you build a model first.

I'm doing similar with a 57 Chevy wagon.
Yes, and the model is how I threw out a few other suspension options (C5 and C6 Vette, 15+ Mustang).

I was looking at a custom designed IRS but stumbled across a video of a GTO rear suspension and realized that nothing is behind the axle line.

I don't have good measurements of the '40's frame (the service manuals only have a few dimensions) but I'm hoping to get some once I pull the live axle this weekend. I'm only going to have to narrow the GTO stuff by about 3-inches to keep the wheels and tires I want under the stock sheet metal. In theory.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by tom91 »

What sort of configuration are you running on the pack?

As orion currently only support 'single pack' configurations, and to get any sort of energy with the LG bricks you would need atleast 2 packs of 6 bricks.

Are you planning on paralleling the balancing wires at cell level?
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

tom91 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:18 pm What sort of configuration are you running on the pack?

As orion currently only support 'single pack' configurations, and to get any sort of energy with the LG bricks you would need atleast 2 packs of 6 bricks.

Are you planning on paralleling the balancing wires at cell level?
I've been working out the exact set up but yes, it looks like I will be changing the configuration to parallel cells. I've trade a few emails with Michael at EV West, he says they have a part to make that easier.

Frankly, saving the money for the batteries is going to take me a while (and awfully close to Drag Week) so I've partially back-burnered that for the moment.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

1940 Chevrolet w/ Tesla LDU - "Shocking Chevy" - Completed 2023 Hot Rod Drag Week
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by 57 Chevy »

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:23 pm Yes, and the model is how I threw out a few other suspension options (C5 and C6 Vette, 15+ Mustang).

I was looking at a custom designed IRS but stumbled across a video of a GTO rear suspension and realized that nothing is behind the axle line.

I don't have good measurements of the '40's frame (the service manuals only have a few dimensions) but I'm hoping to get some once I pull the live axle this weekend. I'm only going to have to narrow the GTO stuff by about 3-inches to keep the wheels and tires I want under the stock sheet metal. In theory.
I can see the appeal of the GTO suspension, only two mount points each side. The Model S suspension is really neat but a massive pain to fit to a live-axle chassis. I'm persisting for now because I'd like to keep the air-struts... this may change.

You can get surprisingly good results by putting a screenshot of the frame out of the workshop manual in cad and sketching over it by eye in plan and side view then intersecting the two sketches. Add a few waypoint dimensions from your actual frame and it'll be pretty close. I bought a 3d scanner and found it easier to dump .stl files into cad and reference them to the factory manual dimensions
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:36 pm
I can see the appeal of the GTO suspension, only two mount points each side. The Model S suspension is really neat but a massive pain to fit to a live-axle chassis. I'm persisting for now because I'd like to keep the air-struts... this may change.
Its nearly impossible in something narrow like the '40. I bet you'll have a bit easier time in the '57.
57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:36 pm
You can get surprisingly good results by putting a screenshot of the frame out of the workshop manual in cad and sketching over it by eye in plan and side view then intersecting the two sketches. Add a few waypoint dimensions from your actual frame and it'll be pretty close. I bought a 3d scanner and found it easier to dump .stl files into cad and reference them to the factory manual dimensions
I may end up scanning the manual and doing just that. And a 3D scanner... way out of my price range right now, but I have certainly longed for one a few times already.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by 57 Chevy »

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:56 pm I may end up scanning the manual and doing just that. And a 3D scanner... way out of my price range right now, but I have certainly longed for one a few times already.
3d scanning market is changing rapidly- the old style 50k devices are on the way out and the 4k Chinese copycat versions are taking hold. I got a Thunk3d Fisher which is has its faults but it is very effective at scanning stuff into cad. $3800USD delivered. You need a high-spec graphics card to run it, other than that point and shoot.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by slow67 »

If you can fabricate, why not change the live axle into a DeDion? Thats what Ford did for the Ranger EV. Basically connect the hubs on each side with a solid tube, and use half shafts to connect to them.

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/i ... ension.jpg
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

slow67 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:35 pm If you can fabricate, why not change the live axle into a DeDion? Thats what Ford did for the Ranger EV. Basically connect the hubs on each side with a solid tube, and use half shafts to connect to them.

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/i ... ension.jpg
Because it is simpler to swap in a factory setup, and since the goal is to run this on drag week I wanted to have the highest chance possible that I can get parts to fix things I break on the road.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

1940 Chevrolet w/ Tesla LDU - "Shocking Chevy" - Completed 2023 Hot Rod Drag Week
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:06 pm $3800USD delivered.
$3800 is still pretty steep for a single tool, especially when I can use a tape measure to get close enough.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by slow67 »

Another option I’ve considered is making the drive unit part of the live axle. Just make sure your cables have plenty of slack!
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by 57 Chevy »

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:48 pm $3800 is still pretty steep for a single tool, especially when I can use a tape measure to get close enough.
Yep, true.

Only thing I'd say is don't cut anything off the car until you have committed yourself financially- this won't be cheap project. That way when the realities of time, finances and enthusiasm collide at some point in the future and you need to back out, you can still drive away your neat old car. For reference I have so far spent around 40k on buying the vehicle, donor Tesla, tools (laptop, scanner, welders, hoist etc) and am not ready to cut anything off yet. I still have easily another four years to go and will start cutting into the frame later this year once all the structural mods are manufactured and ready to fit.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

slow67 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:51 pm Another option I’ve considered is making the drive unit part of the live axle. Just make sure your cables have plenty of slack!
I was going to need to change the rear end anyways (previous owner put in a later 10-bolt that was poorly installed) so it didn't make sense to mess around with that much un-sprung weight.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:00 pm
P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:48 pm $3800 is still pretty steep for a single tool, especially when I can use a tape measure to get close enough.
Yep, true.

Only thing I'd say is don't cut anything off the car until you have committed yourself financially- this won't be cheap project. That way when the realities of time, finances and enthusiasm collide at some point in the future and you need to back out, you can still drive away your neat old car. For reference I have so far spent around 40k on buying the vehicle, donor Tesla, tools (laptop, scanner, welders, hoist etc) and am not ready to cut anything off yet. I still have easily another four years to go and will start cutting into the frame later this year once all the structural mods are manufactured and ready to fit.
I'm aware of the realities. I'd just rather save money for good parts and make do with more basic tools.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:00 pm That way when the realities of time, finances and enthusiasm collide at some point in the future and you need to back out, you can still drive away your neat old car.
Also, I kind of hit that point last year, then went to a Goodguys show and walked the sea of small block Chevys and decided to make my plans to be different work on my budget.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by slow67 »

57 Chevy wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:00 pm
P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:48 pm $3800 is still pretty steep for a single tool, especially when I can use a tape measure to get close enough.
Yep, true.

Only thing I'd say is don't cut anything off the car until you have committed yourself financially- this won't be cheap project. That way when the realities of time, finances and enthusiasm collide at some point in the future and you need to back out, you can still drive away your neat old car. For reference I have so far spent around 40k on buying the vehicle, donor Tesla, tools (laptop, scanner, welders, hoist etc) and am not ready to cut anything off yet. I still have easily another four years to go and will start cutting into the frame later this year once all the structural mods are manufactured and ready to fit.
If you plan on going fast, be sure and pay attention to antisquat. Most IRS setups are under 100%, not good for dragweek (which will have very little track prep). You might look into C4 IRS setup with custom 4 link mounts and half shaft conversions. You can dial in more antisquat with them.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

slow67 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:13 pm
If you plan on going fast, be sure and pay attention to antisquat. Most IRS setups are under 100%, not good for dragweek (which will have very little track prep). You might look into C4 IRS setup with custom 4 link mounts and half shaft conversions. You can dial in more antisquat with them.
I looked at C4 stuff and it wasn't going to work that well in my situation. The GTO parts fit relatively well, and will be simple to fab mounts. There is also some aftermarket drag racing stuff for them so I can improve it over time.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by 57 Chevy »

slow67 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:13 pm If you plan on going fast, be sure and pay attention to antisquat. Most IRS setups are under 100%, not good for dragweek (which will have very little track prep). You might look into C4 IRS setup with custom 4 link mounts and half shaft conversions. You can dial in more antisquat with them.
That is one of the reasons I'd like to stick with the Tesla gear if possible. If a 2.25 tonne car can do a quarter mile below 11 seconds then something must be ok with the suspension. Hard to beat a solid axle and bars for grip off the line with slicks tho.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by slow67 »

57 Chevy wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:12 am
slow67 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:13 pm If you plan on going fast, be sure and pay attention to antisquat. Most IRS setups are under 100%, not good for dragweek (which will have very little track prep). You might look into C4 IRS setup with custom 4 link mounts and half shaft conversions. You can dial in more antisquat with them.
That is one of the reasons I'd like to stick with the Tesla gear if possible. If a 2.25 tonne car can do a quarter mile below 11 seconds then something must be ok with the suspension. Hard to beat a solid axle and bars for grip off the line with slicks tho.
They also have to ramp power in over a second or two. I like to leave on kill. I can leave on a virgin street with a 500 shot of n2o on a true 28x10.5 (leaf spring). Antisquat and shocks are very important for a killer 60’.
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

One of these days I'll get around to adding photos. Until then, more text updates!

My main rear suspension mounts are done, and the passenger side rear control arm is in place. The driver's side just needs to be bolted in, I ran out of time this weekend. From there, I will just need to fabricate coil spring perches and shock mounts. I hope to switch to coil overs in the future, but right now I just want to get it running.

Further work is on a tentative hold. I need more parts before I can do anything, and I've put a hold on spending due to the covid-19 crisis. Mostly being over cautious and diverting "fun" money to emergency savings. So for now, its just finishing up what I already have, and prepping as much as I can for when I can get the next big items (motor and cage) purchased.
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1940 Chevrolet w/ Tesla LDU - "Shocking Chevy" - Completed 2023 Hot Rod Drag Week
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

Finally an update with photos!

The rear suspension is complete. The shocks will need adjusting once everything is together, and I will likely need to tweak the spring rate once all of the weight is in the car. Good thing vibrations are my field. The plan will be to get everything put together, and then adjust the rear spring rate until everything is compressed the right amount at the right ride height etc. Then I'll se the front spring rate with math so that the vibrational modes are decoupled.

At this point I cannot proceed until I get an LDU in the garage. Likely in the next 1-2 months.

Photos include
-When I bought the car (no nose)
-Moving from my apartment to my house
-the full rear suspension
-the rear suspension from the passenger side
-a cool shot (in my opinion) of the 40 and my daily in the garage
Attachments
20200417_223429131_iOS.jpg
moving the 40.PNG
20200412_195044347_iOS.jpg
20200411_214521195_iOS.jpg
20190119_191509947_iOS.jpg
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Re: 1940 Chevrolet with Tesla Motor

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

I've finally got an LDU on its way! Hopefully some progress/updates coming in the next two weeks.
If at first you don't succeed, buy a bigger hammer.

1940 Chevrolet w/ Tesla LDU - "Shocking Chevy" - Completed 2023 Hot Rod Drag Week
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