openinverter forum

LRBen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:46 am
I'll take a look tomorrow when I am there and get back to you on that. I can't remember off the top of my head.
I found that on throttle my motor is a bit more unsteady, it will also sometimes not move and draw a bit of current. But I am not sure how much of that is to do with the PWM wires on the control board being wired wrong at the moment.

Thanks, meanwhile I've figured it out. Made a "mistake". took the colors and pinout from Arber333, but its seems they correspond with wiring colors from the black connector (outside motor), while I looked at the colors from the white resolver connector(inside motor), they have the same colors, but when the white connects to the black connector it switch colors. but we are good, we have a really nice signal right now.

About the PWM wired wrong, was MWU always high and didn't swing as the other 2 phases, with the adjustment its all good.

found also something about throttle set up, that maybe helps, ingnore the can. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=683&hilit=manualid&start=20#p10700

will start tomorrow with the throttle myself.

Looks like bad news on the inverter and motor connectors after about 2 months on back order digikey have just cancelled the order stating that they are no longer being made but replaced by a different part number. The new part number is totally different

So, update on getting the Outlander inverter to drive the motor. Need to have pin 13 (IGCT) on the Grey connector (D-211) connected to +12V to wake up the inverter. Inverter also appears to monitor pin 12 (RSDN), and reports this on CAN 0x289 byte 8 (not connected is 04, connected is 00)

Have got the inverter hooked up with the motor and can see CAN messages from the inverter.
If we put HV on the inverter, can see this reported on message 0x289 byte 5&6
If we rotate the motor by hand, can see values changing on 0x289 byte 3&4
If you apply force to the motor shaft, you can see values on 0x732 byte 7&8

From info I found on the outlander forum, there appears to be a CAN message which is Torque request - 0x11F, but sending values on this message don't appear to have any effect.

I suspect either I'm sending the incorrect command message, or I'm missing an interlock message or status message from another controller. Have also got the BMU hooked up and can see messages from that, but have tried spoofing those IDs with various values to no avail. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers

If you rotate the motor with your hand, that would be same as regen right? So my guess is that it will show as negative torque to ask for regen? I know nothing but it sound like that to me consider my option and please correct me if I am wrong, everybody wins

I have done a little messing with the rear inverter here's some of the output messages I have figured and found on other places on the Web and semi comfirmed. (I gave up typing in and just took a photo sorry for being lazy)

Does anyone have the intermediate gear reduction ratio?

I know the combined ratio if 7.065:1 but I cant find anything about the intermediate ratio?

I've just scored a couple of the Outlander rear drive units, which should arrive in a few weeks, and I want to get things setup so I can test them on the bench to make sure they work.

I'm starting out, so I don't have an inverter, controller, pedal, or anything, except I do have an old Prius battery that I'm not sure of the condition of.

To get them up and running for testing, what would be the minimum that I'd need? I am considering grabbing a Camry Hybrid inverter from a AVV50R (Gen 3), as they're quite cheap (under $250 AUD), and a suitable board from Damien. Is that a good route to go? What else might I need?

Thanks

Jamie

Obtained my own complete motor + gearbox to take apart so I can investigate the layshaft ratio and construction.

Gears are,
Primary
23:45 = 1.9565
Secondary
18:65 = 3.6111

TOTAL = 7.0652
Motor + Gearbox

Locating pin rusted in place.

Innovative pry-bar improvisation. I did something similar for getting the Toyota Gen 3 inverter case apart.

Gearbox off motor.

Gearbox split apart.

Gears

Close up of spline

Magnets

Magnet Gooo. Nothing I wouldn't expect to see on a used gearbox.

Nice pictures of the transmission,
The diff certainly doesn't look like conventional Mitsubishi diff.
Does it have a part number or any kinda of details on it?

seanyt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:09 am Nice pictures of the transmission,

Thanks.

seanyt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:09 am The diff certainly doesn't look like conventional Mitsubishi diff.

I guess it's designed by the motor manufacturer and bought in by Mitsubishi as a single transaxle unit, but that's only a guess.

seanyt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:09 am Does it have a part number or any kinda of details on it?

Sadly not, no markings at all. Here's a couple of close up photos of it. There were also no identifiable markings on the gearbox castings other than a sticker containing two bar codes.

Think the gearbox itself is made by GKN wonder if there's an lsd that might fit

That was my next question, what from the parts bin will fit, so far nothing i can think of visually.
I know miev evolution 3 uses imiev motors running 300nm and 112kw.

So im hoping these motors will take 120kw for brief periods and an LSD would be ideal.
Otherwise its straight to quaife for another custom EV ATB

I'm hoping that this motor is as overengineered as the leaf motor, which has been able to produce around 3 times the rated 100hp.

Assuming that I am planning to see how it would take the upper ends of what my inverter can put out. Somewhere around 140kw. I was thinking about maybe getting an LSD for it also. Would be good to know if there is anything off the shelf that would fit.

I think motor is capable of at least 100kw for sure. My Acim can dish out 80kW and is the same dimension and specd for 30kW continuous.
If you get properly rated battery you can try to push Prius inverter to 500A and see what happens.
I see one obstacle beeing battery rating and the other rather thin rear driveshafts. I don't really have a lot of confidence in them. Maybe 100kW...

I'm only interested in the primary gear and layshaft. So I'm not planning on using the diff it's self and that part is going to end up in the scrap bin some time reasonably soon. if anyone wants it to measure up let me know and we can exchange some tokens to get it posted off when I'm finished with it.

arber333 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:10 pm I think motor is capable of at least 100kw for sure......
I see one obstacle being battery rating and the other rather thin rear driveshafts. I don't really have a lot of confidence in them. Maybe 100kW...

We won't know until someone winds one up with a few to many amps until it pops.

@bram since I am new member I cannot dm you. Could you pls send this fellow Dutchie a message?

Mouse wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:34 pm

LRBen wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:37 pm Has anyone found a source for those connectors so far? I just got quoted 150 quid for one by a breakers.

Have you tried the samples form I linked to a couple of posts above? (You might have to register an account)

Another alternative might be to order the harness cable from Mitsubishi or one of their OEM's. The Mitsubishi part number for the harness is 8556a131. It appears to be the same part number for models from 2013 and up. They are about $220 USD new though.

Jamie

jalovick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:48 am Another alternative might be to order the harness cable from Mitsubishi or one of their OEM's. The Mitsubishi part number for the harness is 8556a131. It appears to be the same part number for models from 2013 and up. They are about $220 USD new though.

Jamie

I am working on my Pug battery right now, but i intend to replace motor/MTX/inverter in Mazda with Outlander motor/gbx/inverter combo.
I would like to perform control via DUE CAN interface, throttle and some switches.

To grab inverter positive control i intend to cut and splice cables on the inside and make a grommet on the outside of inverter with rubber seal. That way i will not need that unobtanium connector at all.
Also the second connector could be adapted the same way, but those resolver cables can be found more easily.

jalovick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:48 am They are about $220 USD new though.

Thats about half what I paid for the entire motor and gearbox combo.

arber333 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:46 am To grab inverter positive control i intend to cut and splice cables on the inside and make a grommet on the outside of inverter with rubber seal.

For me this is just about the only way forward. Only I was thinking of cutting the actual connector bits out of the middle of the connector and fitting (glueing) a waterproof cable gland in it's place so it kind of bolts in place using the original bracketery.

The adaptor I linked in page 2 works pretty well as a replacement for the motor connector. It uses the O ring from the original connector so it should be just as water tight. The stl file I linked is blank as well, I only added the vanity logo for my own part.

I haven't done anything with this motor since about September though as I was busy on other parts of the project. I am starting to make up a higher voltage battery for some further bench testing though, although how things are going it might be on the gearbox by then.

arber333 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:46 am I am working on my Pug battery right now, but i intend to replace motor/MTX/inverter in Mazda with Outlander motor/gbx/inverter combo.
I would like to perform control via DUE CAN interface, throttle and some switches.

Nice. They're a good cheap option, and seemingly fairly easy to control.

arber333 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:46 am To grab inverter positive control i intend to cut and splice cables on the inside and make a grommet on the outside of inverter with rubber seal. That way i will not need that unobtanium connector at all.
Also the second connector could be adapted the same way, but those resolver cables can be found more easily.

I was wondering if there was a similar connector that was common, such as some GM or Deutsch connector? At least it means it can be disconnected easily, and it's an off the shelf part.

Jamie

LRBen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:11 am I haven't done anything with this motor since about September though as I was busy on other parts of the project. I am starting to make up a higher voltage battery for some further bench testing though, although how things are going it might be on the gearbox by then.

Lack of time is the enemy of progression. I've made a wooden frame for mine, to assist me in moving it around and to make bench testing easier.

Finally got this motor tuned and running on a Prius gen 2 inverter. My syncofs was 65000.



I have taken the differential apart in order to get the input sleeve the motor shaft would normally connect into. My plan with this is to get it machined and attached to the clutch hub of the gearbox. On first inspection this gear doesn't look as hardened as previous gears I have worked with. So machining should be easier.

LRBen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:56 pmFinally got this motor tuned and running on a Prius gen 2 inverter.

Yes!

Spinning!

That's a feelgood milestone.