[DRIVING] VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf  [FINISHED]

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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

arber333 wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:34 pm Hm... do you want me to send you one LV connector for charger? I have one with wires pins and seal.
Oh sure, I ordered one from aliexpress but yours would certainly be quicker
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

The the charger is in and charging, just one last (any annoying) connection missing, more on that later.

So first of all it turned out that the charger does NOT fit into the exhaust tunnel :( So now I did it the more traditional way, connected it to the DC junction box, rewired the contactors so they can be powered with the ignition off and programmed the VCU to do precharging and contactor closing in charge mode.

Next I'm facing the good old "powering up stuff you need for charging"
1. pump, DC/DC converter, VCU, contactors, BMS => powered while driving (D), quick charging (Q) and AC charging (A)
2. VCU charge signal => powered in Q, A
3. inverter => powered in D

I went the Arber way and am using PP signal to pull down a P-mosfet gate that powers all the components in 1 and 2. Its output first goes to (2) and then via a diode to (1) because otherwise the charge signal would be active in drive also! Another diode brings ignition power to (1) to power them in drive mode. Quite a lot of complexity added there.

I used free cables in the Nissan harness to run signals from left to right.
The DC/DC converter, as predicted charges the battery to 14.5V which is too much for LFP. I connected the sense line straight to the output stud, so maybe while driving I'll get away with it. But I think while charging I'll toggle the DC/DC converter off and on depending on drawn current or something.

Also wired up the new signals in the VCU and found that the Olimex wifi module sits nice and tight on the unused engine harness connector :) So routed all signals there, covered it with some shrink tube and now have a much stronger wifi signal.

Oh, why did I highlight BMS above? Because I forgot about it. It currently does not power up when the charge plug is inserted. I'll have to get to the junction below the rear seats to fix that. So right now: ignition on, plug in charge cable, ignition off.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Check my CAN code for aux voltage sensing. I use DCDC while charging but it is shutoff untill i sense 12.6V then it starts for 5 minutes. It is enough for keeping aux battery alive and not too much to cook it.

As for PP sensing i tried with Pmos but in the end i went with relay. So PP shows GND to small relay which turns on 12V power for other stuff. PP connection is quite enough for that.
Also i use that signal to pull my notaus signal and disable the car.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Can you sense aux voltage from with Outlander DC/DC? I saw the value drop towards 0 as soon as it is disabled...
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

johu wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:38 pm Can you sense aux voltage from with Outlander DC/DC? I saw the value drop towards 0 as soon as it is disabled...
Well you have to keep it ON via its 12V power pin, but you remove Enable signal. So it will turn DC conversion off, but its logic will keep working.
It is the same with charger. If you keep it connected to 12V it will show your HV and temperatures etc...

I dont care if DCDC pulls some parasitic 12V power. What it draws will more than make up with sensing. This is important when i leave my car on airport parking for several days at a time. 12V battery will be happy for a long time.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

arber333 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:46 pm Well you have to keep it ON via its 12V power pin, but you remove Enable signal. So it will turn DC conversion off, but its logic will keep working.
It is the same with charger. If you keep it connected to 12V it will show your HV and temperatures etc...
ok, I have pins 4, 7, 8 powered but as soon as I turn off pin 4 I loose the aux voltage reading. It doesn't vanish, it just slowly drops towards 0. Can try again tomorrow. Is it not like that for you?
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by m.art.y »

johu wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:30 pm So first of all it turned out that the charger does NOT fit into the exhaust tunnel :( So now I did it the more traditional way, connected it to the DC junction box, rewired the contactors so they can be powered with the ignition off and programmed the VCU to do precharging and contactor closing in charge mode.
Hm, the charger does not fit in the exaust tunnel but it's HV output can still be permanently connected behind the contactors, or can't it? Even if that means extending HV cable? Just wondering if the charger is permanently connected and it's caps are always filled with voltage does that affect longevity of them? 😊
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

johu wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:07 pm ok, I have pins 4, 7, 8 powered but as soon as I turn off pin 4 I loose the aux voltage reading. It doesn't vanish, it just slowly drops towards 0. Can try again tomorrow. Is it not like that for you?
Hm.. i would need to inspect my wiring, but i think pin4 is the sense and pin7 is actual enable for DCDC. Also i figured if i connect charger supply pin8 together with DCDC sense pin aux voltage is less. Can you test? If true we have to correct wiki.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

m.art.y wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:14 pm Hm, the charger does not fit in the exaust tunnel but it's HV output can still be permanently connected behind the contactors, or can't it? Even if that means extending HV cable? Just wondering if the charger is permanently connected and it's caps are always filled with voltage does that affect longevity of them? 😊
I have it permanently connected via 20A fuse in my Mazda. No issues to date. Either from charger or dcdc.
Edit: i think charger, heter and inverter are made to be independently connected...
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

m.art.y wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:14 pm Hm, the charger does not fit in the exaust tunnel but it's HV output can still be permanently connected behind the contactors, or can't it? Even if that means extending HV cable? Just wondering if the charger is permanently connected and it's caps are always filled with voltage does that affect longevity of them? 😊
I didn't want to pull permanent HV all the way from the back of the car to the front. It would have facilitated things, like not having to rewire contactors and not needing an extra DC-DC enable signal.

Speaking of which, I found while charging the DC-DC never turned off (I programmed it to turn off when current draw sinks below 15A while charging). The reason was again the freewheeling diodes in the ULN2003. When the car is off they leak into the "ignition" circuit or in other words they always pull all outputs low. Including, once again, the poor main contactor. It is now welded again :?
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Remember when I said that I had colliding CAN messages between the car and the new charger? And I said it didn't matter.
Well, today my wife took off to work and returned 5 minutes later "the car brakes much too hard!". Regen braking that is.

At first I suspected she had been driving in 1st gear or something. I drove around a bit only to find out when I came off throttle the car would continue driving. Or brake really hard. Then I saw the green cruise control light on! So that colliding CAN message was actually the one from the cruise control switches. So then basically cruise control would randomly engage. Say it engaged at 10 km/h and you came off throttle at 50 km/h it would quite aggressively try to reach 10 again as I allow it quite a lot of regen.

So simply grabbing four bits from the CAN bus no longer works and VW wouldn't be VW if they hadn't done this properly, here is a round of CC messages:

Code: Select all

0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	0D	1	0C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	1D	1	1C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	2D	1	2C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	3D	1	3C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	4D	1	4C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	5D	1	5C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	6D	1	6C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	7D	1	7C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	8D	1	8C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	9D	1	9C
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	AD	1	AC
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	BD	1	BC
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	CD	1	CC
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	DD	1	DC
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	ED	1	EC
0000038A	false	Rx	1	4	FD	1	FC
So there are two counters in nibble 1 and 5, cruise buttons as a bit field in nibble 2 (the "1") and a different representation in nibble 0 (the "D"). So now I check for the counters and that both representations match. Fixed!

I also introduced the new CAN module that has floating point gains and allows specifying an offset. See here: https://github.com/jsphuebner/stm32-car
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by EV_Builder »

Well the day that the stars align ..i mean both devices start at the same time , with sending of same id is the corner case that's left .did you check...?
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see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Well said :) The Outlander message is in 100ms period and CC in 10ms if I remember correctly. Also the CC message is only 4 bytes and would win arbitration if they were to send exactly at the same time. Issue was Outlander messages sneaking in between the CC messages and pushing random buttons so to speak.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Wired up the BMS startup wire today, tested, worked. Seemingly.

I then found that the din_charge pin does not go high when the EVSE is plugged in. If I power up the VCU via the charge pin with a lab supply it goes high, if it's powered up via the P-FET it doesn't work. Strange.

So now I gave up on that. In fact the BMS start pin also powers up the CHAdeMO board which in turn supplies 5V directly to the VCU. So power is provided. Now instead of checking the pin I simply check
- inverter off, charger off -> CHAdeMO charging
- inverter off, charger on -> AC charging
- inverter on -> drive mode

Frees up one VCU pin that I could use for something else.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by celeron55 »

It's funny how 12V power distribution in different modes is almost the hardest part in an EV conversion. Unless you plan for it and think it through right from the start.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Absolutely, charging via CHAdeMO which doesn't need cooling or the DC/DC converter is very straight forward in comparison.

I decided to fully power up (like key on) the Audi A2 while charging, it reduces that complexity and only costs around 50W extra
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by Bigpie »

celeron55 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:14 pm It's funny how 12V power distribution in different modes is almost the hardest part in an EV conversion. Unless you plan for it and think it through right from the start.
^^ This

My Beetle went ape sh*t if I applied power to the ignition on circuit without a key in, for charging purposes, it was fine for 10 min or so then all hell broke loose. Alarm going off, dash like a Christmas tree
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Outlander front generator
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Bigpie wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:21 pm My Beetle went ape sh*t if I applied power to the ignition on circuit without a key in, for charging purposes, it was fine for 10 min or so then all hell broke loose. Alarm going off, dash like a Christmas tree
Haha, burglar protection FTW ;) A2 only lights up the key symbol

The fact that the wifi module now sits outside of the VCU lets me connect it to me home network and integrate it in my energy system 8-)
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by JaniK »

That's really cool.
Any opinions are my own, unless stated otherwise. I take no responsibility if you follow my way of doing things and it doesn't work. Please double check with someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

I'd consider myself back from holiday now even though I'm not quite home yet. Read below ;)

So, the latest 3000 km road trip to South France in all its glory.
We took off Monday 3 weeks ago and just did the quick drive to my dads place (360 km). The take off was already delayed. I noticed the DC-DC converter wasn't working. Checked all wiring and found nothing. Then I went for a short drive and saw the converter jump to live - it doesn't turn on above 400V and the fully charged battery is 403V. Strange enough that the charger charges that high. Anyway, quickly fixed after all.

On the first charge stop we walked the dog and had some lunch, after that the battery was back at 100%. We noticed some strange ringing sound from the rear. At the next charge stop we found the rear wheel scorching hot. I removed the wheel (while charging, of course) to find the metal sheet that apparently ducts the air to the disk was so rusty it had come off its mounts and was touching the disk. Also think it was pressing the hand brake lever which created all that heat. Checked the other side to see that the air duct was already removed there ;) We've got regen, who needs air ducts...

Stayed in the region till Saturday and took off Saturday afternoon towards Dijon, another 350 km. Had to wait on the first charger so I took out rich man's charger and set it to charge at 15 kW. Just as it started to overheat the DC charger became free. In Dijon I was looking forward to an AC charge site with 26 outlets. Only to find - nothing at all. So instead we let the extension cable hang out of our cheap hotel room and charged at 2 kW. Needless to say the car wasn't full on the next day. So we went to a nice "Aire" (French for service station) had breakfast there and charged.
IMG_20220917_182238.jpg
Next stop Lyon, charging while grocery shopping.
IMG_20220918_144443.jpg
And finally Yssingeaux where we charged while having lunch.

Then I noticed something strange. As usual the batteries are quite hot after that many charge stops but they weren't "derating hot". But suddenly while hill climbing long after the charge stop I got a 25 kW discharge limit. So what happens is that second battery brick is obscured by the first. So the first is cooled rather well by the air stream from the exhaust tunnel. After a while the first one will sit at 35°C while the other is still at 47°C (or so). Apparently the BMS thinks that is worrying and kicks in that ridiculous limit. So I implemented an override that removes any discharge limit and kind of mimics Nissans charge curve while charging (50 kW to 60%, dropping off to 25 kW at 80%) as long as the highest temperature is below 56°C.

During our two week stay we were allowed to charge at our hosts garage. It takes a whopping 17 hours to charge from near empty to full. Driving electric in hilly terrain is super satisfying, even when descending serpentine turns you can get away without using the friction brakes. Consumption could be as low as 120 Wh/km due to the low average speed.
DSC00492.JPG
On our last trip I was rather nervous when we arrived 30 km away from home with just 15% left - but on top of a mountain! So in the end we arrived home with 13% - due to charging back up to 20% on the hill descent.

Then came the day of return. We covered 500 km without any issues, only had to activate my BMS override at and after the last charge stop. Only thing that did come up was a humming noise from one of the front wheels. Oh well.

Next day there was just 300 km to cover, one charge stop in Nancy and back to my dads place. Sounds easy, right? Well it wasn't. For the first time it was raining heavily which may have been part of the problem. The first charger, a Veefil, reported communication error 122. There were two more chargers just 200m away. They also faulted out within a second of connecting to the car. So I broke out rich man's again and charged at 12 kW for a while until it overheated. At least we had reached 50% by then. Rich man's uses the CHAdeMO port as well, so why was it working but not the regular chargers? Before me a Nissan Leaf had charged successfully. I never found out but we did decide to leave and retry our luck at Metz. To my surprise it was now working again.

While charging I lifted up the front wheels to find the right one very wobbly. The wheel bearing is not in good nick :(
So now I'm here at my dad and decided to not drive back to Kassel on a wobbly bearing.

So over all I was quite happy with how it went but that last day ruined it a bit and it's what my spouse will tell people when they ask about the trip I'm afraid :x

EDIT: the stats
Total km driven 2457, total kWh charged 382 -> 155 Wh/km
DC kWh 212 at 109€ -> 0.51 €/kWh
AC kWh 170 at 42€ -> 0,27 €/kWh
So roughly 6€/100 km
The days of free charging are over. Even our hosts asked us to pay for electricity. Still I'm very happy with over all cost and consumption figures.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Really nice trip to France J.
Dont be afraid of some wheel bearings. It is a used car...
I must say even OEM cars are not immune to all sorts of mechanical trouble. Our Ampera is eating at rear brakes inversly proportional to our driving. If we didnt use it brake discs would rust away!!!

On the issue of battery cooling i would advise you to make underside alu sheet cover sandwich and rivet slightly raised cover under it. This would form the channel for air to blow from the front through to the rear battery. Do you have space for that under the car?
Or you can try to form channels from the sides. Just enough air to lower front-back difference.
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by Zapatero »

I really think it's about time to get rid of the CHAdeMo Port and install a CCS Port ;)
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by m.art.y »

johu wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:29 pm Well it wasn't. For the first time it was raining heavily which may have been part of the problem. The first charger, a Veefil, reported communication error 122. There were two more chargers just 200m away. They also faulted out within a second of connecting to the car. So I broke out rich man's again and charged at 12 kW for a while until it overheated. At least we had reached 50% by then. Rich man's uses the CHAdeMO port as well, so why was it working but not the regular chargers? Before me a Nissan Leaf had charged successfully. I never found out but we did decide to leave and retry our luck at Metz. To my surprise it was now working again.
This is kind of a known problem with Leafs, moisture gets into the sense pins at the back of the Chademo port, it usually starts working again when moisture is cleaned off the contacts, perhaps some sealant would help or other method to prevent water from getting in.

Regarding slow Type2 charging, it can be made faster if more than 10A is allowed but the wall socket has to be able to handle it. 😊
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by Boxster EV »

Sounds like a lot of drama for one trip - keeps it interesting!

Time for some preventative maintenance on all wheel bearings?
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Re: VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf

Post by johu »

Boxster EV wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:20 am Sounds like a lot of drama for one trip - keeps it interesting!

Time for some preventative maintenance on all wheel bearings?
Yes, absolutely. Also the brakes are about due for a final change (they are still the disks and pads from when I bought the car 4 years ago with 40000km less on the clock).

I am now back in Kassel, no further incidents but a very nice and quick CHAdeMO session :)
signal-2022-10-05-180140_002.jpeg
Final stats are 2851 km, 424 kWh, 179€ -> 149 Wh/km and 0.06€/km
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