Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Topics concerning the Toyota and Lexus inverter drop in boards
sigdigits
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by sigdigits »

I sent Damien a DM, but who knows if I'll get a reply with all the messages I'm sure he receives. I'll dig into this a bit more and report back. I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to EE or circuit design, but I can read schematics and get boards made from github repositories. The issues I've run into are when something was designed in Eagle, or DesignSpark and it becomes a nightmare trying to get components to match what JLPCB (or other manufacturer) has. Going component by component individually searching for equivalents with matching footprints is EXTREMELY tedious
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

sigdigits wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:26 pmI sent Damien a DM, but who knows if I'll get a reply with all the messages I'm sure he receives.
As much as possible, I avoid and encourage everyone else to avoid PM/Email/Etc Damien or Johannes. They have their plates full.

There should be other people in the community who can help answer smaller questions.
Going component by component individually searching for equivalents with matching footprints is EXTREMELY tedious
In the current electronic climate, this is functionally impossible if it's not a full time job. I think both Damien and Johannes have resorted to electrical trafficking and cannibalism, buying products they don't need and then harvesting their organs.

The good news, for this particular project, I think, is that this circuit is simple enough (no microcontroller) that there might be a good chance of everyone having parts in stock.

Give 'er a while and see if you hit any roadblocks.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by sigdigits »

I uploaded the DC boards to JLPCB, and they're small and simple, but still having issues with them accepting the BOM/CPL files. The AC boards are another story since they have a LOT more parts populated. I was able to get the G2_V1 board loaded, but the G3_V2 board (gerbers) won't load, and when I open it in designspark, the routing is all messed up, so I can't create new ones. If a few people want the DC control boards, I'll order them.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by sigdigits »

WELL, they wasted my time before telling me the boards are too big!?!?! and won't make them.... I'm going to see what happens if I try anyway
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

I think there is only interest in the DC boards. The other ones are obsolete, or currently being sold. Some of them, yes, were quite large, but the DC ones were not I don't think.

And, I'm not sure if they were perfect as-is or whether they needed a little tweaking. Usually first run stuff has a few little things that don't go to plan.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Ev8 »

Ok, so my perf board logic board that’ll drive the Prius inverter as a dc controller which runs the code I posted is nothing like the analog logic board that Damien designed, it’s a fully featured board that’ll run the contractors perform weld tests and precharge etc, is a proportional control using throttle and feedback from the inverter current sensors and has a couple of auxiliary pwm outputs for running temperature gauges and a nextion serial display. So not the same thing, having said all that the hardware really isn’t rocket science, it’s a teensy 3.2 with some analog inputs scaled with voltage dividers, some digital inputs that are opto isolated and all the outputs are logic level fet low side switches. It’s really simple arduino I/O type stuff, I’m not a electrical engineer, so if I can figure it out anyone could! I did start on Tying to draw up a pcb design using available equivalent smd components from jclbcp and I was hours into it what I discovered half of the cad files I had found for those components didn’t have Pcb footprints so designspark couldn’t place them, at this point I was all ready so busy with work and other things in life that it got sidelined, even my own project got buried, part of why I’ve not progressed to make this a product for people is that with my own project going ac I no longer have a development bed,
I am now at a stage what I’m about to pull all my dc conversion out of the car and will get to look at my logic board for the first time in many months, at this point I will hand draw a schematic for people to do with as they wish,
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by sigdigits »

I just had a thought.... Would the Open ReVolt cougar DC controller logic boards be used for this? I was trying to figure out if they could work for Damien's IGBT DC controller boards, but he ended up using something else. Something tells me that it would just be a matter of interfacing the logic board to the proper igbt gates
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by CapCarCap »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:24 am A couple more people asked about this, or, something that could do this.

... after a 2 year hiatus from looking at the details of inverters and such, I've been diving back in the last month. I'm not doing a DC build, but over on the DIYEV forums I try to steer people towards the solutions that would work best for them, and, this project is the only sub-$1000 DC controller I know of, hence me encouraging this to go somewhere.

Gave this whole thread a re-read, and embarrassingly, learned something(s) obvious...

Damien already made and sold at least 10 of these boards, from JLCPCB already. About a year ago. And, I presume sold out and he's not making more. So, I presume there's already a... I dunno what it is, the format that would show circuit traces and stuff? I presume that's on the Github, I just don't know what any of those filenames are for or what they do or what the proper software is. But that's not much of a hurdle.

So, if we've got parts from the BOM (very simple), and we've got a schematic from some type of file I don't know about, and we've got code from... someone. Then, what is our current roadblock on doing this? (Also, this makes more sense that EV8 was able to build this on perfboard, as it's very simple, and, a circuit layout already existed in as much as he felt like copying it).

By coincidence, I happen to be building a Prius Gen 2 AC project, and I do have a spare forklift motor, so, I could technically test this myself if need be. The fact that there's like, 3 or 4 exploded inverters in this project is intimidating though, because I have no electronic instincts to fill in the knowledge gaps, I'm likely to add another inverter corpse to the morgue.

----

Anyway, as a state of affairs, for those following along, where are we?

I'm not much good except for cheerleading, coordinating, and documenting it when it's done.

What are the missing pieces we need to know, to have this be a viable option for people?

I would really like this to be *the* DC option.
I was looking at the files on Github vs the picture of the board Damien had made from JLCPCB and I noticed the board on Github says V1 but the ones he ordered and sold say V3. Has anyone actually gotten the V1 board from Github to work?
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by GE11 »

sigdigits wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:25 am I just had a thought.... Would the Open ReVolt cougar DC controller logic boards be used for this? I was trying to figure out if they could work for Damien's IGBT DC controller boards, but he ended up using something else. Something tells me that it would just be a matter of interfacing the logic board to the proper igbt gates
Hey man I have three of these Prius Inverters... We can look at EV8s code and see if we can come up with a way to make this work if you want... If we get stuck we can just ask EV8 and he can answer quick questions...

Thanks
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by GE11 »

Hello,

Any new updates? EV8 have you had time for good schematic? :D :)
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

Alright..... I think I'm ready to finish this project......

GE11 did you get your hardware setup and spinning a motor?

I've got my truck moving on a simple arduino right now.... so no current limiting or fancy feedback loop control. I need to do some more testing to be sure im not going to blow up another inverter. but if it is working well I dont see why we cant built the ev8 controller.... its just a fancy arduino project...

I think my biggest mistake was trying to leave the boost converter hardware in, I think the inductor was causing some kind of voltage spike that was blowing up my inverters. Its removed and I have my capacitor bridged like ev8's old setup now. I managed to pull out of its parking space and do a 500 foot loop but I don't want to push it to far until I renew my AAA lol made it .5 miles before the last one let out the smoke.

what stage are you at GE11??

I really just need to finish this project.....
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

CapCarCap wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:09 am I was looking at the files on Github vs the picture of the board Damien had made from JLCPCB and I noticed the board on Github says V1 but the ones he ordered and sold say V3. Has anyone actually gotten the V1 board from Github to work?
I built a few and they do work.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Since it'd been about a year without anything more usable posted and I'd been telling people "This is the cheapest and easiest way to control a DC motor", sooner or later someone will publish or produce a finished circuit for it, I installed Designspark and opened up the files and took screenshots so they'd be more beginner friendly. And then made a thread on the DIY EC forums just to help get the ball rolling.

Remy pointed out that the PWM controller chip has zero availability anywhere.

I was kinda hoping someone would run off a batch of boards and sell 'em on an eBay store or something, so there was an idiotproof "Just go buy this" solution. Maybe chip some of the profits back to Damien.

I hadn't before ever noticed just how really, really simple the circuit is. And maybe could be even simpler.

Anyway, was just using it as a thread to collect/show the project, since people are still regularly asking about DC motor control:

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... er.207822/

Still a few holes in the documentation that I'm not certain about, and couldn't describe to a beginner.

Not sure how it deviates from EV8's design.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Ev8 »

Hi Guys, i know people were hoping for me to release a full schematic for what I did unfortunately, work, life, my own project, surgery, chronic pain and a whole bunch of less credible excuses got in the way,
What I will say is the code I wrote for the teensy is still there on my GitHub, this tells you what pin gets wired to where on the inverter, all you need to do is think is that pin an output on the teensy if yes the it drives a logic level fet as a low side switch. Is the pin a digital input if yes then it needs an opto isolator in-line to turn a 12v signal (brake etc) into a 3.3v signal for the teensy, is the pin an analog inputs if yes then there will be an appropriate voltage divider network of resistors to condition the signal appropriately.

Further back in the thread I listed the resistance values

None of what I did is rocket science it really is the simplest I/O electronics, I wouldn’t be happy playing with high voltage power electronics without understanding the basics first.

A microcontroller based controller will be vastly better than an analog circuit,

I really would encourage people to pursue ac drive now though it is so much more available and many more choices of oem parts to use, some of which can be controlled with simple can commands
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Ev8 wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:19 amHi Guys, i know people were hoping for me to release a full schematic for what I did unfortunately, work, life, my own project, surgery, chronic pain and a whole bunch of less credible excuses got in the way,
Oh, so you've started a car project before then? :p

No worries. Life happens, this is what it does. You don't owe anyone anything.
I really would encourage people to pursue ac drive now though it is so much more available and many more choices of oem parts to use, some of which can be controlled with simple can commands
Still just can't beat the price of forklift motor and a wrecker inverter. Especially now, people are looking for bargains.

Functionally, I think DC is a great way to get into EVs, and it's simple and barrier free. Doesn't need any tuning.

My DC motorbike I had spinning in minutes, soon as I figured out how to wire a series DC motor. My AC motor I'm at 2+ years of not quite figuring out, hundreds of posts, and a heavily documented wiki. I'm a bad example, but, low cost and beginner friendly aren't really something that's out there right now.

That said, anyone can buy a Teensy and you're right, it's a pretty simple circuit.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Ev8 »

Yes my car project is back on the road was originally dc drive now ac, hence my urging people to go ac from the get go, if I put the money and effort I put into my dc motor setup only to have it burn out the brushes and commutator straight into ac drive then things would gone easier, I have learned a huge amount along the way though!
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by GE11 »

JackTerminus wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:44 am Alright..... I think I'm ready to finish this project......

GE11 did you get your hardware setup and spinning a motor?

I've got my truck moving on a simple arduino right now.... so no current limiting or fancy feedback loop control. I need to do some more testing to be sure im not going to blow up another inverter. but if it is working well I dont see why we cant built the ev8 controller.... its just a fancy arduino project...

I think my biggest mistake was trying to leave the boost converter hardware in, I think the inductor was causing some kind of voltage spike that was blowing up my inverters. Its removed and I have my capacitor bridged like ev8's old setup now. I managed to pull out of its parking space and do a 500 foot loop but I don't want to push it to far until I renew my AAA lol made it .5 miles before the last one let out the smoke.

what stage are you at GE11??

I really just need to finish this project.....
Oh wow you are much further than me! I have 4 of these inverters sitting in my garage. I have not done anything yet. I am still using the Paul and Sabrina controller. If you do need to use one of these inverters I can send you one if you want to push it to see how it does... Yes Current sensing would be the next step.... My question is, what is the electrical interface between the Arduino board and the IGBTs in the inverter?
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Ev8 »

The inverter igbts are controlled by the intelligent gate drives in the inverter all you need to do to switch them is to pull the appropriate inverter pins to ground, all that’s required to do this is a low side switching most fet/transitor controlled by a pwm pin on the microcontroller, but you need to make sure you are generating pwm at about 4khz this can be done on an arduino by adjusting one of the timers, on a teensy it’s different code and easier to run pwms at different frequency’s on different pins, useful if you want to include code to switch on relay’s ect
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by GE11 »

Ev8 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:24 am The inverter igbts are controlled by the intelligent gate drives in the inverter all you need to do to switch them is to pull the appropriate inverter pins to ground, all that’s required to do this is a low side switching most fet/transitor controlled by a pwm pin on the microcontroller, but you need to make sure you are generating pwm at about 4khz this can be done on an arduino by adjusting one of the timers, on a teensy it’s different code and easier to run pwms at different frequency’s on different pins, useful if you want to include code to switch on relay’s ect
Thank you EV8 :)
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

Ev8 wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:42 am So I’ve been driving the dc gen2 for the last couple of weeks at a much more ear friendly 6khz with no ill effects
Just about to clock over 300 miles on the Prius inverter DC controller, I am happy to call it a success, as soon as I get time to finish a schematic on my board I will share it
You did end up going with 6khz right? just want to make sure lol.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by Ev8 »

I did yes, both seemed to work fine but 6khz was kinder on the ears
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by GE11 »

Hello Team!

Long time no here from. Hope everyone is doing well. I have NOT made any progress on the DC inverter : :cry: . I have spent at least a 1000 dollars on MOSFETS and Diodes trying to Modify a Open Revolt to at least 700 Amps and have failed Miserably. I have been just blowing up MOSFETS... have ordered boards spent money on Bus Bars Capacitors... Nothing but blowing up MOSFETS :( My feeling are really hurt..

So what's the lates on this?? Is anyone running a DC version of the Prius? I sure Hope so, I need something encouraging and something to look forward to.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

GE11 wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:26 amSo what's the lates on this??
One user back at the end of page 1 of this thread, warns that perhaps Damien's design as-is will blow up the inverter in some cases. Not immediately (as can be shown by Damien using it) but eventually under load.

He links a webpage of someone who also figured this out:

https://nicjam.es/projects/derptruck/part_2/

Scroll down until: "Finally Destroying Part of the Prius Brick"

I'll quote a tiny bit, but read the whole thing for better context:

Because the old brushed motor in this truck never really wants more than about 120VDC, the duty cycle never goes higher than about 30%. The half bridge always spends more time in state 2 than it does in state 1. Given a duty cycle of 20%, the low side switch will be conducting 4x longer than the high side switch over a single switching cycle. Operating at such a low duty cycle puts disproportionate thermal stress on the low side switch.

The half bridges of the Prius inverter were not designed for prolonged operation at constant extreme duty cycle. The electric motor/generators in a Prius are three phase permanent magnet synchronous machines (PMSM). The only time you have this killer condition is when the motor is stalled. Any time it is rotating, the six switches share the load evenly. Even when the brushed DC motor in DerpTruck is rotating, the majority of the thermal load is still on that low side flyback diode.

Now, both PWMs are centered at 50%. To make the motor spin, the duty cycles are drawn apart to put a voltage across the motor. This spreads load more evenly between the upper and lower switches.


This blog predates Damien's use of the hardware by several years and seems to be unrelated to it. So, the lessons he learned maybe weren't applied.

It's mostly still black magic to me but if his explanation makes sense to you and you can make the appropriate changes then full speed ahead.
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by GE11 »

Thanks Matt for this update!!
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Re: Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller

Post by JackTerminus »

ahhh yes it has been a while.... I put this project on hold for a while, but I think I'm ready to either finish it or get rid of it lol. I had a cell go bad in my pack due to neglect so I had to pull one of my modules, which is 10s.... So now im only running a 30s pack so hopefully that will help me not blow any more inverters lol. It's been quite a while since i've played with this so i'm trying to remember where we are..... Last i recall i pulled out the boost module hardware from my 3rd inverter and was able to spin the motor up but haven't tried driving it yet. I need to come up with some way to charge my pack, I think im going to use the remnants of my last inverter to throw together a rudimentary charger, then I need to install an old DC-DC as the one onboard the prius inverter wont work at the 115v of my pack currently. thennn I need to clean off the 5mm of dust that is completely blocking the windshield and we will take it for a test drive.....

I'm going to play with it here in a minute.


@GE11

Where are you at with your build? You are likely going to want to use an arduino instead of the damien dc board. I did get the dc board working but my inverter blew up shortly after, that may be because i tried to leave the boost converter hardware in.... what part of the world are you in? I'm on the west coast US. would be happy to help anyway I can.
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