Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Nissan Leaf/e-NV200 drive stack topics
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CaliMountains
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Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by CaliMountains »

[revised as I learn]
Premise:
Calling all the nearby junkyards has me convinced that Gen1 Nissan Leaf battery packs purchased as cores are the cheapest EV modules available in the USA, and probably will be for several years. Leafs die from heat in California, but less than half of the modules are damaged (middle of back row). I have the related training and experience so properly rebuilding packs for other people sounds like a good side project, and will get me my batteries, for dead Nissan Leaf cars and offgrid systems as I live offgrid and so do many neighbors. This led to the idea; might as well buy a dead Leaf and bring it up to modern standard with Leaf parts, and then sell it. That is not profitable. [So what are the options?]
Problems upgrading Gen1 Leaf:
Unobtanium newer Leaf parts at inflated prices.
Finished car not worth the cost of parts.
Leaf motor and inverter upgrades currently cost much more than better solutions. [edit: don't need to, use EM61 with aftermarket]
Current junkyard prices show Leaf motors and related cost four times as much as Prius parts.
Have to trick the stock computer with CAN-Bridge

[edit; Stock 24kWh battery can only supply 80kW, which is why everything is limited.]

Possible solution:
Swap VCU to openinverter, Zombieverter
[drive the stock EM61 motor with a better inverter]
Swap radio head to regular Android
Stock or modified battery pack can be used, as Nissan should quit checking. Otherwise, install CAN-Bridge.
[Needs battery upgrade in order to have more juice]
Sell the unused Nissan parts.
Problem with solution:
[Determine if Nissan computer stays and gets tricked, or gets removed, CAN messages needed either way]

Could this save a bunch of 10-12 year old Nissan Leafs?
CaliMountains
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by CaliMountains »

Not to derail the request for the cheapest solution, but I'll bet a Tesla Model S front SDU with a Zombieverter would fix things right up! Those Tesla drive units cost $1500 shipped on ebay; which is less than a 160kw Nissan Leaf motor and inverter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204006449841?e ... R-SL9rrvYA
Alibro
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by Alibro »

Not to be a kill joy but is a 10-12 year old Leaf worth saving. They have got to be one of the ugliest cars on the road.
I need a bigger hammer!
CaliMountains
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by CaliMountains »

Yeah, the Leaf is a piece of crap. But I see these pieces of crap for sale for as much as $9K locally if they can go over 50 miles, and sometimes $1K because they 'quit working.' That's a large margin. I will not drive an 80kw car, and 110kw is only a bit better. 160kw is unobtanium, and cost more than $2K if you do find a motor and inverter stack. Tesla's least expensive option costs $1500 and has over 200kw. So if I can install a Tesla motor, inverter, and openinverter drop in VCU for under $3K; that's a bargain, and a chance to make a profit. A Leaf with over 200kw and better mileage. That will appeal to someone.
Besides, should the project Leaf crash, more the gear to another car.
arber333
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

CaliMountains wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:02 am Yeah, the Leaf is a piece of crap. But I see these pieces of crap for sale for as much as $9K locally if they can go over 50 miles, and sometimes $1K because they 'quit working.' That's a large margin. I will not drive an 80kw car, and 110kw is only a bit better. 140kw is unobtanium, and cost more than $2K if you do find a motor and inverter stack. Tesla's least expensive option costs $1500 and has over 200kw. So if I can install a Tesla motor, inverter, and openinverter drop in VCU for under $3K; that's a bargain, and a chance to make a profit. A Leaf with over 200kw and better mileage. That will appeal to someone.
Besides, should the project Leaf crash, more the gear to another car.
Well...
I think you do an injustice to leaf drivetrain. I think those components were made for 200kw power. The main limit is the battery which is not capable of providing more than 80kW, hence the limit.
I use gen1 leaf motor with ampera inverter 600A and i get like 400A from the batteries.
No need to fret about the motor. It is capable enough. You need to have good battery first...
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by Alibro »

This guy did a lot of testing Gen 1 Leaf motors.


If I recall he got it over 200kW
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

Alibro wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:14 pm This guy did a lot of testing Gen 1 Leaf motors.

If I recall he got it over 200kW
This is aftermarket $$$ inverter. You can get a lot from your normal OEM inverter. Like i said, you need to have a good battery first.

Also see here in the old days when Arlo tested his Honda CRX on dyno - 300Hp!
CaliMountains
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by CaliMountains »

Thanks you two! I thought there was no support for the EM61 motor. Of course I'll use the original EM61, that's awesome! They are cheap enough to abuse and replace if it comes to that. Is there a thread on installing openinverter on a Leaf?

As for a battery, I made a long project of figuring out my market. I called junkyards (breakers) and kept asking for EV batteries until their answers all sounded about the same. (In California, at this time) Presenting myself as a battery builder, they'll sell me a core for $500, whether some 1kw hybrid or a 24kw Leaf. Call as a regular customer and for a 24kW Leaf pack that barely works, they want a minimum of $2K, but more like $4K - for junk! So I'll buy cores and rebuild them (reader: don't kill yourself copying me). I already have professional high power experience, and yet that's not particularly needed here. But I digress. For this subject, the battery is covered. For my next car body, probably BMW, using Leaf modules.... I'm trying to get help with a complex battery system, but so far am just getting naysayers and demands for qualifications: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... st-1099949

@arber333: "I use gen1 leaf motor with ampera inverter 600A and i get like 400A from the batteries."
Excellent, please please please tell me more or please point to the threads where I can learn from your projects. How many kilowatts does your traction motor get peak? Is the Ampera inverter better/cheaper than Toyota? Your responses make all the difference in the world, thanks.

Then...
Stock car, stock battery (rebuilt, maybe upgrade or add a second one in the back), stock EM61 motor, openinverter VCU, a powerful inverter compatible with openinverter... The Nissan computer needs to be dealt with; tricked or removed. What else is there to the project?

Does this look like it can come together cheap? I frankly would like to do such a project now before building an EV from scratch, especially if I can actually profit from the build. Flipping a few a year would give me all the side income I need. Add building offgrid systems, and maybe a little consulting, and suddenly Nissan Leaf 'death prevention' looks like a good business for me. I anticipate a large supply of 'core' Leaf batteries for the next several years.

As is my manner, whatever I learn I'll share. It would be great to write up a cheap method of refreshing 2010-2012 Nissan Leaf cars that are coming off the road right now, so anyone can have it done at a local shop.

Oh yeah, is Dalah on here? He has some interesting Nissan Leaf solutions and does Nissan Leaf repair, but refers to his code being available to his customers. Dalah, care to share?
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by arber333 »

CaliMountains wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:49 pm @arber333: "I use gen1 leaf motor with ampera inverter 600A and i get like 400A from the batteries."
Excellent, please please please tell me more or please point to the threads where I can learn from your projects. How many kilowatts does your traction motor get peak? Is the Ampera inverter better/cheaper than Toyota? Your responses make all the difference in the world, thanks.
viewtopic.php?t=73
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/

I am really not sure about KW, but like i said i start with 600A and have battery limit 400A. As i have 2P96S IPACE cell modules (60Ah) their rating would be 5C = 600A. But that is with cooling which i havent implemented yet. I must say that if i set motor winding resistance in Lebowski brain to a low value i can spin tires at 100km/h!

I consider Volt inverter superior to Toyota. But the latter is more robust. Volt control logic is 5V which is easier to reverse engineer.
And did i mention they are 2x mirror IGBT? In theory you could just parallel both power sections for 1200A power.
CaliMountains
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by CaliMountains »

original post updated to reflect responses
Alibro
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by Alibro »

I don't know about Gen1 Leafs (up to 2011 or so) but Dala has a lot of experience upgrading Gen2 Leafs.



If you haven't already then watch all his videos.
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CaliMountains
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Re: Building a modern EV from a Gen1/2 Nissan Leaf

Post by CaliMountains »

He does. I watched most of his content. I mentioned him above. I'll use some of his tricks. He does things right, upgrading to a 40kw battery and a 160kw inverter; all Nissan Leaf, keeping Nissan happy. Nah, that's not my style.

I guess this thread should be limited to a Gen1 with an EM61 motor, where the way to go is openinverter and another inverter, also allowing battery options.
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