VW T5 Hybrid

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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muehlpower
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VW T5 Hybrid

Post by muehlpower »

Some people know my 1950 Mercury with a Tesla engine. In normal life I drive an E-Golf and for business I drive a 2006 VW T5 Transporter with a diesel engine. That's what this is about. I have to be able to tow a heavy trailer with it and also cover large distances quickly. The idea is to keep the diesel engine for the front axle and install an electric motor on the rear axle. This is how it becomes a hybrid. Electrical power 100kW-150kW, battery approx. 30kW-40kW. Good for 100km.
Since the T5 is also available as an all-wheel drive, the rear axle is prepared for a drive and there is space.

What components are possible? Has anyone tried that?
eee291
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Re: VW T5 Hybrid

Post by eee291 »

I have played with similar ideas.
100+Kw seems like a lot, tesla rear motor?
qhab
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Re: VW T5 Hybrid

Post by qhab »

Any progress on this?

I was thinking about attaching an em61 or em57 motor from nissan leaf.
I have an experience with electronics and power electronics, so I am not afraid about control.

There is a lot of space just after the front axle where the motor could be mounted.
and connected through modified drive shaft
My assumptions:
- motor is connected to the original rear axle from 4Motion through modified drive shaft,
- the battery is located under the vehicle,
- electric motor and combustion engine works in cooperation or separately,

Issues to be solved:
- battery selection,
- gearbox - the electric motor revs up to 10000RPM. The 4Motion diff has 1:2.5 ratio, which means that the wheel speed is 2.5 times the drive shaft.
If we connect the electric motor directly to the drive shaft then the torque will be reduced significantly, so we need a gearbox. The original gearbox from nissan leaf has 8.2:1 ratio but this may be not enough because after the 4Motion diff there will be 8.2 / 2.5 = 3.28:1 ratio. Moreover the position of the original leaf gearbox will be not aligned with the drive shaft. So we need other solution. Any idea how to couple the engine and the diff?

I divided the project into 3 stages:
- 1st stage - the electric motor works in cooperation with the combustion engine in two modes
mode 1 - the combustion engine is idling to keep vacuum pump and power steering running, the gearbox is in neutral position, the electric motor is moving the car
mode 2 - both engines work together for higher torque, better acceleration and range, no regeneration

- 2nd stage - extended mode 1 and mode 2, added mode 3
mode 1 - the combustion engine is not running, gearbox in neutral position. Vacuum pump and power steering converted to electric. The electric motor is moving the car - zero emission mode
mode 2 - both engines work together for higher torque, better acceleration and range. regeneration is active during breaking.
mode 3 - both engines work together, but the electric engine is used for battery charging while the combustion engine delivers power to move the car and charge the battery (increased fuels consumption, but the battery can be charged).

- 3rd stage
same as the 2nd stage but also fully integrated ESP / ABS


The only real issue is the gearbox, I do not have a solution for it. Once I solve it I start with the project.
Scrappyjoe
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Re: VW T5 Hybrid

Post by Scrappyjoe »

I might try a similar thing with my T3 syncro and an Outlander rear drive unit. The Outlander has a lot going for it - it's much more compact than a Leaf stack.

Seems like you are looking at an either or arrangement. GoWesty demoed a T3 Syncro that functions as a parallel hybrid. How it works is the EV controller received a signal that represents the engine load, and sends torque requests to the electric motor accordingly. When under high load, the electric motor assists. When under low load, the electric motor scavenges power via regen.

What I like about this arrangement is you can get away with a much smaller battery, and you can dispense with a lot of the EV complexity - vacuum pumps, chargers, DCDC etc. And you get resilience. If your EV hardware goes out of commission you can still drive, just as a regular ICE.
jrbe
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Re: VW T5 Hybrid

Post by jrbe »

Would a LS600h transmission fit? It could be ideal for this.

You'd still need to to start the engine if the vacuum got weak or the 12v battery got low.

Also consider all the audi Quattro differentials you could use. They have similar axle flanges and have a bunch of gear ratios around 4:1.
Scrappyjoe
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Re: VW T5 Hybrid

Post by Scrappyjoe »

If you're wondering about appropriate diff ratios, the GoWesty hybrid used a Hyper9 mated directly to a T3 front differential.

That's 233Nm, on a 5.43 ratio, and apparently it happily moves 1800kg at quite a pace.

Eyeballing the T5 4motion drive train, I'm wondering if an Outlander rear unit is the way to go. It's pretty compact, it might fit. Then you don't have to worry about all the mating headaches. And it can move the Outlander up to 120km/h.
modellfan
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Re: VW T5 Hybrid

Post by modellfan »

Looking forward to see your project. As I am also looking forward to convert a T5 , but fully electric.

The range of options for what you want to do , even out of spec :
- Mild hybrid with 15kw Bosch 48v alternator generator. Can really support in all coasting situations. Easy mechanical integration. No fast charging .
- outlander motor as it is quite compact and could replace the rear diff.
- Tesla LDU :

A challenge I see is to integrate the 40kwh besides having a exhaust . And I am wondering what tüv is saying as you change the behavior of a ice .
Best regards from lake Constance
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uhi22
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Re: VW T5 Hybrid

Post by uhi22 »

qhab wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 11:13 am - gearbox - the electric motor revs up to 10000RPM. The 4Motion diff has 1:2.5 ratio, which means that the wheel speed is 2.5 times the drive shaft.
This would be unusual. The diffs I have seen had always lower rpm on the wheels than on the input. Caused by the big ring gear compared to the small gear on the input shaft.
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