Tuning the small drive unit with charts

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RiPower
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Okay, i make a new thread with my LDU question, thank you.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

As announced in the other thread, my settings on the SDU were not so successful. I first lowered fweak from 230 to 220 so it ran better and took about 545 amps of battery current. Since I wanted to be careful, I lowered fweak to 215 the next time I tried it. This reduced the maximum current to 420 A. So I set fweak back to 220 and settled with that. Afterwards I made a trip to see what speed the SDU turns at 150 kmh, which is the maximum speed for the LDU, and then enter this speed as the maximum speed in the parameters of the SDU. Unfortunately, the SDU went out during this trip at around 138 km/h, the main contactor fell off. In the menu item lasterror it said Overcurrent. After a restart, overcurrent current sensor 2 immediately appears when I turn it on. If I then step on the gas, it goes immediately without the engine starting in overcurrent. Now I first have to remove the controller, which is not that easy because I have to remove the front batteries and then I can see what's next.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by Romale »

RiPower wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:33 pm ...the main contactor fell off. In the menu item lasterror it said Overcurrent. After a restart, overcurrent current sensor 2 ...

didn't you know that the contactor setting should be: ALWAYS ON! ?? otherwise, in case of an error, opening the contactor at speed will actually always lead to burnt transistors in the inverter. now you need to either look for a new LDU or disassemble and try to fix it by replacing the failed power IGBTs . in case of repair, also check all the gate resistors, they could also fail
evil neodymium :twisted:
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by catphish »

RiPower wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:33 pm As announced in the other thread, my settings on the SDU were not so successful. I first lowered fweak from 230 to 220 so it ran better and took about 545 amps of battery current. Since I wanted to be careful, I lowered fweak to 215 the next time I tried it. This reduced the maximum current to 420 A. So I set fweak back to 220 and settled with that. Afterwards I made a trip to see what speed the SDU turns at 150 kmh, which is the maximum speed for the LDU, and then enter this speed as the maximum speed in the parameters of the SDU. Unfortunately, the SDU went out during this trip at around 138 km/h, the main contactor fell off. In the menu item lasterror it said Overcurrent. After a restart, overcurrent current sensor 2 immediately appears when I turn it on. If I then step on the gas, it goes immediately without the engine starting in overcurrent. Now I first have to remove the controller, which is not that easy because I have to remove the front batteries and then I can see what's next.
Unfortunately, if your main contactor opened at 138km/h and now you get overcurrent errors as soon as you touch the throttle, you have almost certainly destroyed your inverter. This is a very well known problem with the SDU, they simply do not survive if the HV gets disconnected for any reason when the vehicle is moving. This is why it is essential to set tripmode=1 if the SDU is controlling the contactors :(

I'm also confused that your maximum current reduced from 545 to 420 when you reduced fweak. This suggests that most likely the drive unit ran into another limit (probably iacmax or idcmax), but it seems to have a bigger problem to worry about for now.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Yes we will see, does anyone know where I can get a new controller from or who would fix the controller for me?
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by EV_Builder »

I know in the USA is a breaker he sells inverters his company name had something Todo with road and Germany...ahh now I know again.: Autobahn...
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Autobahn?
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by catphish »

RiPower wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:20 pm Yes we will see, does anyone know where I can get a new controller from or who would fix the controller for me?
Unfortunately, the cheapest way to deal with a damaged SDU is usually to buy a whole new unit. The inverters are rarely sold separately, but it's worth looking.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by EV_Builder »

RiPower wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:34 amAutobahn?
Yes did you Google?

http://www.autobahnparts.com/carmodels/tesla
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Yes, I also suspect that I will not get a single controller.

@EV_Builder Thanks for the link
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Now it's time to report back, I installed a new controller for the SDU and did some test drives again today. First I took the default values ​​that have always been suggested for the SDU, the engine didn't run with them at all, I had to reduce Fslipmax to below 4, but even then it always went back into the current limit. Now I've tried your parameters and I didn't have success with that either, again and again currentlimit. I then went down to 2.8 with Fslipmax and the engine ran smoothly. However, the maximum battery current is far too low. I have now reduced fweak step by step until I had a decent value here, but I also had to lower the boost because otherwise it kept going into the current limit when I started driving. I got down to 150 with fweak and had a peak current (battery current) of about 550 A. I was even able to go back up to 3 with Fslipmax by lowering the boost. That's how I was satisfied.
When I then turned off the engine completely to eat something and then turned it back on again, all the values ​​were still in the controller, but it didn't run properly with these values, I've tried this several times, you feel your way to the ideal values ​​step by step , ict satisfied, saves everything and after a restart all values ​​are in there, but the car no longer drives like it did before the restart.

Here are the parameters with which I can currently drive best even after a restart, but these values ​​are not good in terms of performance:

{
"boost": 2400,
"fweak": 180,
"fweakstrt": 300,
"fconst": 300,
"udcnom": 300,
"fslipmin": 1.5,
"fslipmax": 2.75,
"fslipconstmax": 4,
"sincosofs": 2048,
"fmax": 320,
"dirchrpm": 100,
"dirmode": 3,
"ocurlim": 1200,
"potmin": 25,
"potmax": 4000,
"pot2min": 0,
"pot2max": 0,
"potmode": 0,
"throtramp": 10,
"throtramprpm": 20000,
"ampmin": 10,
"slipstart": 50,
"brakeregen": -2,
"regenramp": 100,
"regentravel": 20,
"offthrotregen": -75,
"cruiseregen": -30,
"regenrampstr": 40,
"brklightout": -50,
"bmslimhigh": 50,
"bmslimlow": 0,
"udcmin": 240,
"udcmax": 350,
"idcmax": 5000,
"idcmin": -5000,
"idckp": 2,
"idcflt": 9,
"tmphsmax": 110,
"tmpmmax": 300,
"throtmax": 100,
"throtmin": -100,
"iacmax": 900,
"chargemode": 0,
"chargecur": 0,
"chargekp": 80,
"chargeki": 10,
"chargeflt": 8,
"chargepwmin": 0,
"chargepwmax": 90,
"idlespeed": -100,
"idlethrotlim": 50,
"idlemode": 0,
"holdkp": -0.25,
"speedkp": 0.28,
"speedflt": 4.5,
"cruisemode": 0,
"udcsw": 240,
"udcswbuck": 540,
"tripmode": 1,
"bootprec": 0,
"pwmfunc": 0,
"pwmgain": 100,
"pwmofs": 0,
"canspeed": 1,
"canperiod": 1,
"nodeid": 1,
"fslipspnt": 1.5,
"ampnom": 9.53
}
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by catphish »

RiPower wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:36 pm When I then turned off the engine completely to eat something and then turned it back on again, all the values ​​were still in the controller, but it didn't run properly with these values, I've tried this several times, you feel your way to the ideal values ​​step by step , ict satisfied, saves everything and after a restart all values ​​are in there, but the car no longer drives like it did before the restart.
I absolutely can't understand this. Are you really sure the values are saving? Your settings look reasonable, and more aggressive than mine, you should be getting 550+ amps peak with these settings, though your boost is rather low.

Can you check whether the measured udc correctly matches your battery voltage?
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by johu »

Did you get the "Parameters saved" message? If you're not using special software it will not save in run mode
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

UDC correct

The parameters are saved and are also in the controller, I have checked the whole thing again and again.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by Peter »

You could try setting udcnom to 0 so it does not adjust anything whilst testing.
I agree with catphish, Boost seems low.
In my setup your Fweak setting would be too low and cause overcurrent so I raise Fweak and raise Boost to compensate for a good start off the line.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by catphish »

Peter wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:48 pm You could try setting udcnom to 0 so it does not adjust anything whilst testing.
I agree with catphish, Boost seems low.
In my setup your Fweak setting would be too low and cause overcurrent so I raise Fweak and raise Boost to compensate for a good start off the line.
Correct,
I run fweak=240, your lower value of 180 is very aggressive, you should have huge performance at higher RPM (like 40-50MPH)
I run boost=3200+, so your value is rather low, this isn't really a problem, just means you won't get strong acceleration from stationary

I'm confused by your larger question though. The same config should produce the same results after a restart. It's absolutely impossible to suggest recommended changes to your config when you're finding that the *same* config isn't giving consistent results :(
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Thank you for that information. With a higher boost I have problems with overcurrent in the lower speed range. If the controller is running properly, I can easily increase the boost to 3000, but I always have problems after a restart, which is why I set the boost so low.

I had Fweak even lower 140 to get at least over 500 A which is then at about 90 kmh. Unfortunately, this doesn't always work after a restart and that's why I raised fweak to 180. With your parameters fweak 240 I can hardly reach 400 A.

Yes, and to get to the main problem, I drove about 380 km (voltage range 280V - 340V) with about 5 stops today with these parameters. After 2 of the 5 stops, the engine was no longer running properly and went into "current limit" even with low acceleration, but if you then drive on carefully, I found that after a few minutes everything is fine again and you can even accelerate fully again without any problems to get. Maybe I can increase the values ​​a bit, i.e. increase boost and decrease fweak until it runs properly again and then drive the first 5 km very carefully. I have the feeling the controller adapts.

Or I'll actually try Peter's tip and set the udcnom to 0. I have no idea what I'm going to do next.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by Peter »

Increasing Boost and decreasing Fweak puts you further into a possible overcurrent event.
With the intermittent issue you are having I would start plotting values and record them.
Did you have the exact same overcurrent issues with the previous inverter ?
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by catphish »

I'd be inclined to focus more on what specifically is different after a restart, as this seem a major problem. Try to always change one thing at a time.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by johu »

All I can say is there is not wanted "adaptation" in the code.
A json dump in the "good" and the "bad" state might reveal something. You obtain that by browsing to 192.168.4.1/cmd?cmd=json%20hidden

Perhaps also a 1000/1000* plot of il1 and il2 while driving slowly. Also in "good" and "bad" state

*Limit data points to 1000, Burst length: 1000
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Please excuse me for not getting in touch for so long, but we first had to complete two vehicle conversions for customers before I could take care of my car. The problem persisted, the current limit appeared sporadically after driving off and disappeared on its own after a few minutes. I decided without further ado to remove the controller again and check the soldering points on the current sensors. Visually, there were no defects to be seen, but I resoldered them and installed the whole thing again. Since then the engine has run flawlessly. I have now changed the parameters during test drives to get a little more power out of the engine. I lowered fweak to 170 but had to lower the boost to 3500 otherwise it would go into the current limit when driving off. With these parameters I get a maximum current of 550A. I'm quite happy with that. Sure you could take the whole game further and increase the power, but I think in combination with the LDU on the rear axle the 550 A is a good thing. Here is the complete set of parameters:

{
"boost": 3500,
"fweak": 170,
"fweakstrt": 300,
"fconst": 300,
"udcnom": 300,
"fslipmin": 1.5,
"fslipmax": 3,
"fslipconstmax": 4,
"sincosofs": 2048,
"fmax": 322,
"dirchrpm": 100,
"dirmode": 3,
"ocurlim": 1200,
"potmin": 25,
"potmax": 4000,
"pot2min": 0,
"pot2max": 0,
"potmode": 0,
"throtramp": 10,
"throtramprpm": 20000,
"ampmin": 10,
"slipstart": 50,
"brakeregen": -2,
"regenramp": 100,
"regentravel": 20,
"offthrotregen": -75,
"cruiseregen": -30,
"regenrampstr": 40,
"brklightout": -50,
"bmslimhigh": 50,
"bmslimlow": 0,
"udcmin": 240,
"udcmax": 350,
"idcmax": 5000,
"idcmin": -5000,
"idckp": 2,
"idcflt": 9,
"tmphsmax": 110,
"tmpmmax": 300,
"throtmax": 100,
"throtmin": -100,
"iacmax": 900,
"chargemode": 0,
"chargecur": 0,
"chargekp": 80,
"chargeki": 10,
"chargeflt": 8,
"chargepwmin": 0,
"chargepwmax": 90,
"idlespeed": -100,
"idlethrotlim": 50,
"idlemode": 0,
"holdkp": -0.25,
"speedkp": 0.28,
"speedflt": 4.5,
"cruisemode": 0,
"udcsw": 240,
"udcswbuck": 540,
"tripmode": 1,
"bootprec": 0,
"pwmfunc": 0,
"pwmgain": 100,
"pwmofs": 0,
"canspeed": 1,
"canperiod": 1,
"nodeid": 1,
"fslipspnt": 1.5,
"ampnom": 9.53
}
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by catphish »

RiPower wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:45 pm Please excuse me for not getting in touch for so long, but we first had to complete two vehicle conversions for customers before I could take care of my car. The problem persisted, the current limit appeared sporadically after driving off and disappeared on its own after a few minutes. I decided without further ado to remove the controller again and check the soldering points on the current sensors. Visually, there were no defects to be seen, but I resoldered them and installed the whole thing again. Since then the engine has run flawlessly. I have now changed the parameters during test drives to get a little more power out of the engine. I lowered fweak to 170 but had to lower the boost to 3500 otherwise it would go into the current limit when driving off. With these parameters I get a maximum current of 550A. I'm quite happy with that. Sure you could take the whole game further and increase the power, but I think in combination with the LDU on the rear axle the 550 A is a good thing. Here is the complete set of parameters:
I'm very glad to hear you were able to persist with this and solve the instability, and thank you for posting your parameters. I definitely agree that 550A is a good limit.

Your boost value sounds correct, very much in mine with what I use. I'm surprised you have fweak so low, as I get a peak current of 500A with this set to 240, but definitley use whatever works for your unit. Your peak power must come in quite early.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by catphish »

Now that winter's here, I've been doing more low speed driving, and I noted that with a higher value of fslipmin, driving is a lot smoother at very low speed (in particular pulling off and holding steady on a slight incline).

Taking this to the extreme, I got extremely smooth results with the following:
fslipmin=3
fslipmax=3
slipstart=99

However, I suspect this sacrifices a lot of efficiency in normal driving, so I don't currently recommend this, but an interesting thing to research further, particularly if you find low speed throttle response to be jerky.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

Thank you very much for your further information, yes, I now reach my top performance at around 70 km/h, which I find very good for overtaking in our rural area and I have limited the top speed to 145 km/h anyway because of the change in the LDU ratio. Also more than sufficient for the car, for me acceleration and towing heavy loads on the trailer is important and that fits very well with my settings. What surprises me is their high fslipmin, I can't cope with high fslipmin at all, the engine starts to jerk when driving slowly, but that's probably due to the heavy vehicle.
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Re: Tuning the small drive unit with charts

Post by RiPower »

@catphish
May I ask in which car do you use the SDU?
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