UK IVA Modifications

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UK IVA Modifications

Post by steveknox »

Hi All,

I'm nearing the completion of my RX-8 build and am nervous that the modifications I've made to my car require me to get and IVA or not. Given that an IVA is not an option due to the need for my battery boxes to be certified, I'm a bit concerned. Yes, I should have checked before I started cutting.

The modification I have made is to cut a hole in the boot floor, and build a battery box in the void. The box is professionally fabricated and installed, and supported by the chassis rails.

The quality / strength of the box is not in question here, but rather whether simply cutting the boot floor in the first place classifies as significant enough modifications to require an IVA. The fabricator assured me that this is thin sheet and therefore not structural, but i'm concerned that that doesn't matter if the IVA criteria is very rigid.

I believe that this is likely to be a continuing problem in the UK, and so I believe it would be good to have a discussion here on what does / does not warrant IVA classification.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by tom91 »

I would be more worried about dealing with the change of tax class as an rx-8 falls right in the "None Changeable Years" 2001-2017.

So I suggest reaching out to the DVLA first, they will probably just down right refuse the change any of the paperwork thus forcing you to go through IVA if you need it changed.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Bigpie »

IVA sounds impossibly expensive.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by golfdubcrazy »

i would just take the car for a normal mot and see if it passes first
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by janosch »

Hi,

our vehicles are IVA'd and passed without too much hassle, we haven't cut the chassis. DVLA tax class change is much more of a headache for us.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Bigpie »

I was thinking of cutting out the spare wheel well and replacing it with a square box for a second battery pack, would be good to get an answer before I get cutting :D
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by steveknox »

I just got off a web chat with the DVLA. Their position is: "If you have made alterations regardless of the degree of which to any of the components mentioned in the pamphlet then you would need to submit the application with the IVA."
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by steveknox »

That's interesting, thanks Janosch. I'm not concerned right now about the tax, although that's a battle I'll fight when the time comes. First I want to make sure I can legally drive the car. Did the IVA test not require some sort of certificate for the batteries which cost a fortune? If not, then i'd have no problem doing an IVA. At very least it would give me some peace of mind that i haven't created a death trap!
janosch wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:36 am Hi,

our vehicles are IVA'd and passed without too much hassle, we haven't cut the chassis. DVLA tax class change is much more of a headache for us.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by steveknox »

steveknox wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:53 pm I just got off a web chat with the DVLA. Their position is: "If you have made alterations regardless of the degree of which to any of the components mentioned in the pamphlet then you would need to submit the application with the IVA."
The pamphlet in question is the 'INF26', attached
Attachments
INF26.pdf
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by LRBen »

Oh yeah that might sting me as well since I cut out the very flimsy spare boot compartment in the front of the MG. I was hoping since it was not structural at all I would get away with it. From what I have heard these days the DVLA are sending out someone to check the car over. So it's up to the person who inspects it as to whether you would have to get an IVA or not.
It does seem a bit of a risk to get all that way only to be denied at the last hurdle.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by nkiernan »

If random brackets are welded onto parts of the chassis or monocoque, any idea how they'd be treated? Is it clear if that would be considered an altered chassis? I presume so but different to cutting sections out of a chassis!
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by steveknox »

nkiernan wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:40 pm If random brackets are welded onto parts of the chassis or monocoque, any idea how they'd be treated? Is it clear if that would be considered an altered chassis? I presume so but different to cutting sections out of a chassis!
This is the thing. I asked what *degree* of modification constitutes "radical" and got the response above. Which implies even a drilled hole in some sheet metal could be construed as radical. It's really hard to know.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Bigpie »

DVLA Kits & Rebuilds office would be the best bet, 01792 782818, they've been unhelpful getting my V5 updated to electric on a 2003, but maybe they can give good advice on this matter.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by catphish »

I hadn't given this any thought until now! Using a Tesla SDU means that I immediately lose the engine, transmission, and drive axle! Fortunately, I still have the other 3 items unmodified: chassis, suspension, steering, which gives me just enough points to keep my registration.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by arber333 »

nkiernan wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:40 pm If random brackets are welded onto parts of the chassis or monocoque, any idea how they'd be treated? Is it clear if that would be considered an altered chassis? I presume so but different to cutting sections out of a chassis!
If welded piece would interfeere with chassis impact mechanics in a crash this would be a major modification and would require frame redesign.
A big no-no to indiscriminate welding of large brackets especially in the front part of carryframe. I would get away in TUV by drilling a hole to the reinforced frame and putting rivnuts in it to bolt on a T-mount for battery box on each side. I would connect them with a straight U channel which would then carry the battery box load to the chassis. No welding in front.
However no one ever told me it is not alowed to cut the trunk out and weld a box there. I have done it multiple times and no inspector complained... yet.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by SuperV8 »

catphish wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:37 pm I hadn't given this any thought until now! Using a Tesla SDU means that I immediately lose the engine, transmission, and drive axle! Fortunately, I still have the other 3 items unmodified: chassis, suspension, steering, which gives me just enough points to keep my registration. I am working under the assumption that simply bolting things to the chassis (in my case a battery tray) does not constitute a modification of it.
PXL_20220216_161325060(1).jpg
This is the IVA manual:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... l-vans.pdf

P241 - is probably the page we would be interested in:
69 Electrical Safety
Application: All Vehicles equipped with one or more traction motor(s) operated by electric power

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles
You will not be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:

it has fewer than 8 points
it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)
Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number.
And this is an interesting discussion on alerting chassis:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... 98436&i=20
Q) Would the modification of wings to allow clearance for larger wheels fall foul of the regulations?

We presume not as the common fitment of sunroofs does not create issues as this is a non stressed item of the monococque, the same as wings?"

A) When considering a monocoque structure, it is necessary to consider what constitutes cosmetic panels that do not significantly add to the structural strength and which panels provide structural integrity. In general front wings modified in this way would not constitute a modification to the monocoque structure.

With reference to the further query, VOSA have advised that they would prefer the following statement:

What constitutes a monocoque is that of how an OEM manufacturer would view it. The chassis or `cage` assembly and all components that form it, less any cosmetic panels or infills that make no structural consideration to the monocoque or its component parts.
However, we must emphasis that this information is given for general guidance and each case will be judged on its merits.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

steveknox wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:55 am Hi All,

I'm nearing the completion of my RX-8 build and am nervous that the modifications I've made to my car require me to get and IVA or not. Given that an IVA is not an option due to the need for my battery boxes to be certified, I'm a bit concerned. Yes, I should have checked before I started cutting.

The modification I have made is to cut a hole in the boot floor, and build a battery box in the void. The box is professionally fabricated and installed, and supported by the chassis rails.

The quality / strength of the box is not in question here, but rather whether simply cutting the boot floor in the first place classifies as significant enough modifications to require an IVA. The fabricator assured me that this is thin sheet and therefore not structural, but i'm concerned that that doesn't matter if the IVA criteria is very rigid.

I believe that this is likely to be a continuing problem in the UK, and so I believe it would be good to have a discussion here on what does / does not warrant IVA classification.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve
hi Steve, new here and interested in this thread as I have to put my car through Iva having fallen foul of the dvla.
Was historic but due to some holes being drilled in the chassis I lost the v5. Section 69 states to submit satisfactory documentary evidence of compliance to the required standard for electric vehicles. After speaking to someone, the son in law of a group member, he said finding the accreditation that Tesla have for their modules. Is it not as easy as that, I guess not. Are you saying you cannot get certification for your battery boxes. This stumbling block if not possible to overcome may be the end of my conversion. A load of money spent and now more to get it registered plus maybe going back to an engine to get through Iva. It’s total madness
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

janosch wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:36 am Hi,

our vehicles are IVA'd and passed without too much hassle, we haven't cut the chassis. DVLA tax class change is much more of a headache for us.
interested to know what’s required as satisfactory documentary evidence of compliance to required standard for electric vehicles
Has me worried. I’m working towards Iva due to losing my v5
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by janosch »

Pop103electric wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:53 pm ...

IVA is the one to do!
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by tom91 »

In the IVA manual it states that a required document that proves R100.1 compliance of the HV battery. Only certain places can create the documents and I have had quotes back of 7-10K gbp.

Also just needing to have a system that meets the requirements might be a a big ask for certain builds. Also I believe documentation is required per battery box.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

janosch wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:41 pm
Pop103electric wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:53 pm ...

IVA is the one to do!
iva is what I’m talking about. So you have put conversions through Iva. Did you have to do anything to do with section 69
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

tom91 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:18 pm In the IVA manual it states that a required document that proves R100.1 compliance of the HV battery. Only certain places can create the documents and I have had quotes back of 7-10K gbp.

Also just needing to have a system that meets the requirements might be a a big ask for certain builds. Also I believe documentation is required per battery box.
is that making your own battery pack. I have 5 Tesla modules in a frame clad with sheet steel, does that require documents or does the Tesla accreditation work for Iva.
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by tom91 »

Pop103electric wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:16 pm
tom91 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:18 pm In the IVA manual it states that a required document that proves R100.1 compliance of the HV battery. Only certain places can create the documents and I have had quotes back of 7-10K gbp.

Also just needing to have a system that meets the requirements might be a a big ask for certain builds. Also I believe documentation is required per battery box.
is that making your own battery pack. I have 5 Tesla modules in a frame clad with sheet steel, does that require documents or does the Tesla accreditation work for Iva.
You put battery modules in a box, so you made a battery pack. However I would inquire with someone who actually works on doing IVAs
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

janosch wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:41 pm
Pop103electric wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:53 pm ...

IVA is the one to do!
How do I get certification for the battery boxes
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Re: UK IVA Modifications

Post by Pop103electric »

tom91 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:01 pm
Pop103electric wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:16 pm
tom91 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:18 pm In the IVA manual it states that a required document that proves R100.1 compliance of the HV battery. Only certain places can create the documents and I have had quotes back of 7-10K gbp.

Also just needing to have a system that meets the requirements might be a a big ask for certain builds. Also I believe documentation is required per battery box.
is that making your own battery pack. I have 5 Tesla modules in a frame clad with sheet steel, does that require documents or does the Tesla accreditation work for Iva.
You put battery modules in a box, so you made a battery pack. However I would inquire with someone who actually works on doing IVAs
that’s not as easy as it sounds. I can’t find anyone that is doing Iva on ev conversions. So far those converting cars to 8 point rules are getting away with that. I wonder for how long, then this ev converting will be dead
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