Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info Topic is solved

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vwjim
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Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by vwjim »

Morning,

As said in my other thread, I needing to order the SDU so I'm researching options and suppliers as much as possible.

What's the general view about the claims made by 057 Technology? Fair comments or pure marketing BS?

I can see the advantages of not breaking the seals / opening up the SDU. But are the claims about efficiencies accurate too? Is their controller as good as / better than other options? Are there compromises for using an "external" control unit like theirs?

Thanks for any knowledge you can pass on.

Regards,
Jim


Here's the section from the email I received -

All of that said, our control systems are designed to be easily utilized in any conversion. They can be used to run our Tesla drive unit packages with as little as a HVDC connection (main battery), a 12VDC connection (12V battery), accelerator pedal (included), and two simple 12V inputs (brake pedal switch, DRIVE gear button). A full base set of wiring is included, and the controller has several predefined wired inputs for gears and other control as well as outputs for basic status (brake light, reverse light, current gear, etc). They can also be used with more advanced features and control via a CAN interface, and the 12V level inputs and outputs are fully configurable via the CAN interface. Our system is so simple to use out of the box that many of our customers have their drive units up and running for testing the same day they receive it!

Please keep in mind that, unlike systems seen elsewhere, our drive unit packages do NOT replace the Tesla inverter controller. This is a huge benefit over every single other "solution" claiming to control Tesla drive units.

Why? Because replacing the inverter controller is not only bad for performance and efficiency compared to the correct original unit, it can also be dangerous and result in damaged components or worse. We've had several customers come to us after trying inverter replacement setups for Tesla drive units, only to run into either a complete disaster (blown inverter, for example), or when they find out they can't get anything close to the performance or efficiency these drive units are capable of even in stock Tesla vehicles.

No one knows Tesla's hardware better than, well, Tesla. Removing their hardware and software from the drive unit means you're throwing away nearly a decade of R&D into making the best possible controls for these motors. Tesla's inverter controller is the best in the business with the best reliability, safety, performance, and efficiency available.

Our control system retains the original Tesla inverter controller hardware. In most cases we never have to open the drive units at all, ensuring the coolant seals, high and low voltage connections, and other components remain in their original factory condition. We've completely reverse engineered both the hardware and software of the Tesla drive units and are able to offer our packages, including our unique SPORT PLUS package, with truly astounding performance that actually delivers, without removing and replacing a core component that makes these drive units the best to begin with.

We have several customers who have already put 50,000+ miles on vehicles running our drive unit packages. Our setups are geared towards performance while retaining long term reliability.

Long story short, don't fall for inverter replacement solutions. For the highest performance and most reliable electric motor setup for your project, there simply is nothing better than our Tesla drive unit packages.
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by johu »

negative marketing I'd say. Of course they do have a point that the replacement board is more likely to blow up the inverter if misconfigured.
The replacement board gives you more freedom (including blowing yourself up) but also in terms of power output and other customization. It's open source after all, theirs is not. I'd only believe they get more power from a drive unit if they prove it on a dyno.
Breaking seals... well maybe you don't wanna go diving with broken seals but even broken seals hold off spray water.
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by vwjim »

Thanks. Like all good marketing, they're going to say they're the best. But a good point about the safety factor vs replacing the board and messing the inverter up.

Thanks.
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by mjc506 »

A real advantage of open source solutions like openinverter.org is that any potential "customer" can look at the support provided before handing over their hard-earned cash. I'm sure we've all experienced poor after-sales service from many businesses (not saying that 057 Tech have poor after-sales, but by the time you find out, it's probably too late!) Especially in the case of reuse of salvage automotive components, it's far too easy to show running inverters on a company YouTube video and then blame "damaged" components when customers experience issues with the product...

Anyway, how easy would it be for Elon to take exception and change the firmware... :-)
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by collin80 »

I know WK057 who is behind that company. I think it'd be fair to say that he's one of the most knowledgeable people out there when it comes to Tesla hardware. He's got a proven track record. I believe I was the first person to spin a Tesla Model S drive train outside of a car and he was the second. I wasn't able to continue to use the drive trains without doing hardware mods, he was and is. So, I would vouch for the technical expertise behind that company. Also, he/they aren't entirely wrong. Tesla is likely to have done a lot more tuning than anyone else is going to do. They built the motor, they likely know all the nitty gritty parameters that otherwise the rest of us have to guess at and/or manually tune. Also, they have a long hardware warranty and so probably have done absolutely everything possible to not let the inverter blow up. So, yes, there is some validity to the arguments presented. But, let's say the Tesla drive train is 98% efficient as is. The drop in replacements may be 96% efficient. Will a 2% difference in efficiency be a deal breaker? No, probably not. This whole topic could turn into a book so I'll just leave it there. My point is that performance differences will likely be subtle.

Now, one thing you can certainly argue is that a control board replacement is more "future proof" as Tesla can't code around it. Sure, you can argue that 057's solution could be disabled by Tesla. It can... sort of. But, they know how to flash the inverter and I'm sure they have several different firmware revisions stored. So, if Tesla updates a drive train they just flash it back to the older firmware.

So, it really boils down to what your goals are and your beliefs. I would say it is perfectly valid to buy something from 057 if it fits your criteria and you don't mind a commercial solution. It's perfectly valid to buy the OpenInverter board instead. The target audience is different for both solutions. One is more plug and play but you get what you get. The other takes more to get set up but gives you unlimited freedom. Neither side should look down on the other.
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by mikesail »

collin80 wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:45 pm

Now, one thing you can certainly argue is that a control board replacement is more "future proof" as Tesla can't code around it. Sure, you can argue that 057's solution could be disabled by Tesla. It can... sort of. But, they know how to flash the inverter and I'm sure they have several different firmware revisions stored. So, if Tesla updates a drive train they just flash it back to the older firmware.

So, it really boils down to what your goals are and your beliefs. I would say it is perfectly valid to buy something from 057 if it fits your criteria and you don't mind a commercial solution. It's perfectly valid to buy the OpenInverter board instead. The target audience is different for both solutions. One is more plug and play but you get what you get. The other takes more to get set up but gives you unlimited freedom. Neither side should look down on the other.
How is it possible for Tesla to disable a drive unit that is no longer in a Tesla vehicle?
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by EV_Builder »

They can't.
But they do control the second hand 'waste' stream. So if firmware or things change it might but 057 back to the drawing board. Same for us though if pins aren't assigned the same tomorrow as in the past.

I don't think that representation is correct. Simply because there is no freedom to setup the drivetrain. I see their solution as a PPP one..PAY PLUG and PLAY. But assumptions have been made somewhere. No doubt.

The open-source version here can be made to outperform 057 but that will cost substantial user effort. For us to compete Johu should build an car with this drive unit IMHO :D
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by sebastian35554 »

vwjim wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:52 am Morning,

As said in my other thread, I needing to order the SDU so I'm researching options and suppliers as much as possible.

What's the general view about the claims made by 057 Technology? Fair comments or pure marketing BS?

I can see the advantages of not breaking the seals / opening up the SDU. But are the claims about efficiencies accurate too? Is their controller as good as / better than other options? Are there compromises for using an "external" control unit like theirs?

I am also looking for a coworking space and I found https://intersect.au/ online, what do you think?

Thanks for any knowledge you can pass on.

Regards,
Jim


Here's the section from the email I received -

All of that said, our control systems are designed to be easily utilized in any conversion. They can be used to run our Tesla drive unit packages with as little as a HVDC connection (main battery), a 12VDC connection (12V battery), accelerator pedal (included), and two simple 12V inputs (brake pedal switch, DRIVE gear button). A full base set of wiring is included, and the controller has several predefined wired inputs for gears and other control as well as outputs for basic status (brake light, reverse light, current gear, etc). They can also be used with more advanced features and control via a CAN interface, and the 12V level inputs and outputs are fully configurable via the CAN interface. Our system is so simple to use out of the box that many of our customers have their drive units up and running for testing the same day they receive it!

Please keep in mind that, unlike systems seen elsewhere, our drive unit packages do NOT replace the Tesla inverter controller. This is a huge benefit over every single other "solution" claiming to control Tesla drive units.

Why? Because replacing the inverter controller is not only bad for performance and efficiency compared to the correct original unit, it can also be dangerous and result in damaged components or worse. We've had several customers come to us after trying inverter replacement setups for Tesla drive units, only to run into either a complete disaster (blown inverter, for example), or when they find out they can't get anything close to the performance or efficiency these drive units are capable of even in stock Tesla vehicles.

No one knows Tesla's hardware better than, well, Tesla. Removing their hardware and software from the drive unit means you're throwing away nearly a decade of R&D into making the best possible controls for these motors. Tesla's inverter controller is the best in the business with the best reliability, safety, performance, and efficiency available.

Our control system retains the original Tesla inverter controller hardware. In most cases we never have to open the drive units at all, ensuring the coolant seals, high and low voltage connections, and other components remain in their original factory condition. We've completely reverse engineered both the hardware and software of the Tesla drive units and are able to offer our packages, including our unique SPORT PLUS package, with truly astounding performance that actually delivers, without removing and replacing a core component that makes these drive units the best to begin with.

We have several customers who have already put 50,000+ miles on vehicles running our drive unit packages. Our setups are geared towards performance while retaining long term reliability.

Long story short, don't fall for inverter replacement solutions. For the highest performance and most reliable electric motor setup for your project, there simply is nothing better than our Tesla drive unit packages.
Hi Jim,

I'm not familiar with 057 Technology or their products, but their claims seem interesting. It's good to know that their control systems are designed to be easily utilized in any conversion, and their Tesla drive unit packages retain the original Tesla inverter controller hardware. It makes sense that replacing the inverter controller can be dangerous and result in damaged components or worse. The fact that they have several customers who have already put 50,000+ miles on vehicles running their drive unit packages is promising.

That being said, it's always a good idea to do your research and compare different options before making a purchase. Have you looked into other suppliers and their products? It might be worth checking out some reviews and getting feedback from other users who have installed similar systems.

Best of luck with your research and decision-making process!
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Re: Comments please on 057 Tech' marketing info

Post by muehlpower »

I assume you live in the USA, if not the shipping will be added. Tesla motors are easy to find in Europe, however WK057 wants the motor with them and does not sell the controller separately.
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