Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Hello!
I thought I should start a project thread, to describe my project and open up for some discussions regarding the strategy and components.
The final goal is a 4wd car, very light weight since it will be a space frame chassis with fiberglass body.
Car: Porsche 356 coupe replica, space frame chassis utilizing Corvette C7 suspension front and rear. So basically it will be a scaled down C7 (length and width) with 4wd performance on par with a Polestar 2.
Inverter: Chevrolet Volt with dual motor control
Motors: 2x Leaf MY11 motors with gearbox (one will be flipped over, due to short wheel base, oil gallery will need modification.
Battery: I have a complete Tesla model 3 long range battery, unfortunately its to long for my wheelbase, so if someone (in europe) has a standard range battery and is interested in a trade - I'm interested.
Inverter plans:
Reason for this choice: Good value dual motor inverter, very compact design.
The basic goal is as stated 4wd concept, but the route isn't fully determined, and thats why I'm very open for discussions. I've seen the Chevy-pcb here, but I take it that its just one stage + parallelisation option, so not dual motor.
My initial idea was to utilize two rev 3 boards on an "adaptor" board for the motor controllers, and having an extra controller that handles the demand values to each controller. So for instance, if going full acceleration the main controller would send eg 70% to the rear and 30% to the front, and when going to regen, it sets front to 60% regen and 40% regen in the back, this would make the car behave a little more predictive in slippery surfaces. Also having the controller "externally" would allow for the inverter to be "finalized" quite early on, and then do adjustments and car adaptions in something like a BCM that controlls the behavior and load share.
Motor plans:
Reason for this choice: Good value, readingly available
Since wheelbase is very small, I need to flip one motor over. One other option would be to run it in reverse, but that would make the load in the gears different from the intended design and it would still require modifications to the oil gallery for proper lubrication. So as of now the idea is to flip it over and modify the oil gallery to get proper lubrication.
Battery plans:
Reason for Tesla battery: Was available within my closest friends..
As mentioned I already have a Model 3 Long range battery pack, unfortunately its about 30-40cm too long for my wheelbase to be able to utilize the dual wishbone suspension used for this build. So I will be starting to look for a standard range battery pack, where the modules are way shorter (I would guess about 2/3 of the length of the 75kW pack).
Also ideally I'd like to keep the BMS controller, I only started looking into that yesterday, and found https://ingenext.ca/products/tesla-mode ... controller that seems to be doing what I'd like, however very expensive, but I haven't seen any other options right now that works?
As said, any input is appriciated, specially on the inverter and Battery plans
Who am I?
I'm an engineer in the automotive industry, working with automation systems and HW testing like gearboxes, motors, engines, batteries, etc. My main quality in the industry is complete designs of testbeds - so I'd like to call myself a testbed architect, focusing on finding all components that will fullfil the intended tasks. I'm not the best programmer, but usually I have a quite good idea of how things need to be controlled for the intended application
I thought I should start a project thread, to describe my project and open up for some discussions regarding the strategy and components.
The final goal is a 4wd car, very light weight since it will be a space frame chassis with fiberglass body.
Car: Porsche 356 coupe replica, space frame chassis utilizing Corvette C7 suspension front and rear. So basically it will be a scaled down C7 (length and width) with 4wd performance on par with a Polestar 2.
Inverter: Chevrolet Volt with dual motor control
Motors: 2x Leaf MY11 motors with gearbox (one will be flipped over, due to short wheel base, oil gallery will need modification.
Battery: I have a complete Tesla model 3 long range battery, unfortunately its to long for my wheelbase, so if someone (in europe) has a standard range battery and is interested in a trade - I'm interested.
Inverter plans:
Reason for this choice: Good value dual motor inverter, very compact design.
The basic goal is as stated 4wd concept, but the route isn't fully determined, and thats why I'm very open for discussions. I've seen the Chevy-pcb here, but I take it that its just one stage + parallelisation option, so not dual motor.
My initial idea was to utilize two rev 3 boards on an "adaptor" board for the motor controllers, and having an extra controller that handles the demand values to each controller. So for instance, if going full acceleration the main controller would send eg 70% to the rear and 30% to the front, and when going to regen, it sets front to 60% regen and 40% regen in the back, this would make the car behave a little more predictive in slippery surfaces. Also having the controller "externally" would allow for the inverter to be "finalized" quite early on, and then do adjustments and car adaptions in something like a BCM that controlls the behavior and load share.
Motor plans:
Reason for this choice: Good value, readingly available
Since wheelbase is very small, I need to flip one motor over. One other option would be to run it in reverse, but that would make the load in the gears different from the intended design and it would still require modifications to the oil gallery for proper lubrication. So as of now the idea is to flip it over and modify the oil gallery to get proper lubrication.
Battery plans:
Reason for Tesla battery: Was available within my closest friends..
As mentioned I already have a Model 3 Long range battery pack, unfortunately its about 30-40cm too long for my wheelbase to be able to utilize the dual wishbone suspension used for this build. So I will be starting to look for a standard range battery pack, where the modules are way shorter (I would guess about 2/3 of the length of the 75kW pack).
Also ideally I'd like to keep the BMS controller, I only started looking into that yesterday, and found https://ingenext.ca/products/tesla-mode ... controller that seems to be doing what I'd like, however very expensive, but I haven't seen any other options right now that works?
As said, any input is appriciated, specially on the inverter and Battery plans
Who am I?
I'm an engineer in the automotive industry, working with automation systems and HW testing like gearboxes, motors, engines, batteries, etc. My main quality in the industry is complete designs of testbeds - so I'd like to call myself a testbed architect, focusing on finding all components that will fullfil the intended tasks. I'm not the best programmer, but usually I have a quite good idea of how things need to be controlled for the intended application
Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
And one more thing:
We do have a Model Y and Model S (2017) in the family, so maybe I could do some CAN-logging some time...
We do have a Model Y and Model S (2017) in the family, so maybe I could do some CAN-logging some time...
Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
So the current status is:
Body aquired (frame for VW pan included, but will probably not be used)
Corvette C7 suspension aquired
Model 3 Battery Longrange aquired
2x Nissan leaf MY11 motors aquired
2x Chevy volt inverters aquired
Next week (cw11)
Making a 300V DC Link for the motors to test them on the bench (once I've made a new PCB)
We've been discussing at work if we should make a back-2-back rigg for the motors to be able to tune and test the capabilities of the chevy inverter. But it all comes down to how much "play time" we're allowed at work...
(Note the Lancia Stratos in the background, but that won't be an EV, will be running an Alfa V6)
Body aquired (frame for VW pan included, but will probably not be used)
Corvette C7 suspension aquired
Model 3 Battery Longrange aquired
2x Nissan leaf MY11 motors aquired
2x Chevy volt inverters aquired
Next week (cw11)
Making a 300V DC Link for the motors to test them on the bench (once I've made a new PCB)
We've been discussing at work if we should make a back-2-back rigg for the motors to be able to tune and test the capabilities of the chevy inverter. But it all comes down to how much "play time" we're allowed at work...
(Note the Lancia Stratos in the background, but that won't be an EV, will be running an Alfa V6)
Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Nice project,
for some time also thought about Volt controllers, they looks very compact for power you can get, but do not found way to control them, just somewhere saw Paul Holmes pcs designed for volt inverter, but I suspect that it is totally different from openinverter. Also in my opinion perfect way is to use original Volt inverter board and control it over CAN, but it needs quite a lot reverse engineering
for some time also thought about Volt controllers, they looks very compact for power you can get, but do not found way to control them, just somewhere saw Paul Holmes pcs designed for volt inverter, but I suspect that it is totally different from openinverter. Also in my opinion perfect way is to use original Volt inverter board and control it over CAN, but it needs quite a lot reverse engineering
Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
I actually have Pauls PCB in my office, but I realized it would be better to make something based on the openinverter concept.Linukas wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:44 pm Nice project,
for some time also thought about Volt controllers, they looks very compact for power you can get, but do not found way to control them, just somewhere saw Paul Holmes pcs designed for volt inverter, but I suspect that it is totally different from openinverter. Also in my opinion perfect way is to use original Volt inverter board and control it over CAN, but it needs quite a lot reverse engineering
The inverters are really compact, I really recommend this video:
Currently I'm looking into the schematics of Damiens Prius dual motor controller and the Chevy Volt inverter schematics. Making the two powerstages individual. Then I'll make a decision if I'm going to make the overall controller inside the inverter, or have it externally, I'm leaning towards the latter.
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Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
I have tested Volt inverter with Openinverter brain as well as with Lebowski brain.
Out of the two i find Lebowski smoother to drive but it is a pain to setup and has fewer options of development.
In your case i would recommend you to use the first IGBT with Openinverter brain in master role with precharge and DC contactor control and Lebowski to drive 2nd IGBT. That one will probably needed to be derated a bit do it doesnt cause oversteering issues.
Actual thread....
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=697&hilit=volt+inverter+brain
Out of the two i find Lebowski smoother to drive but it is a pain to setup and has fewer options of development.
In your case i would recommend you to use the first IGBT with Openinverter brain in master role with precharge and DC contactor control and Lebowski to drive 2nd IGBT. That one will probably needed to be derated a bit do it doesnt cause oversteering issues.
Actual thread....
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=697&hilit=volt+inverter+brain
Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Have you by any chance tested the Volt inverted with the latest OI firmware to see if its any smoother?arber333 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:50 pm I have tested Volt inverter with Openinverter brain as well as with Lebowski brain.
Out of the two i find Lebowski smoother to drive but it is a pain to setup and has fewer options of development.
In your case i would recommend you to use the first IGBT with Openinverter brain in master role with precharge and DC contactor control and Lebowski to drive 2nd IGBT. That one will probably needed to be derated a bit do it doesnt cause oversteering issues.
Actual thread....
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=697&hilit=volt+inverter+brain
Im starting to think about a hybrid setup using the zf 8spd deal from BMW and potentially using a Volt inverter to drive the electric motor.
Formerly 92 E30 BMW Cabrio with Tesla power
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Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
No, but like i said OI has much more development potential. Lebowski has much more man hour tuning potential ....
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Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Nissan my11 ? I’m unaware of such motor, any photos?
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Model year 2011
Main difference is that inverter and motor are separated on the units, which suits me well since I then connect the motor power cables to my inverter
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Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
So a em61?
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
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Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Cool project I'm also using the TM3 standard range batteries and have some reference 3D models on the forum here if you need to do any checks...they're still bulkier then we'd like. Did a lot of looking at BMS options and finally had to settle on the Orion 2
Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
Yes, they're bulky, but the modules are way shorter so the pack itself I think would be possible to reduce to the length that matches with the wheel base of the 356... the width of the battery actually seems to fit perfectly, so I just need it to be like 30-40cm shorter, and from the looks of it the standard range battery modules would be working perfectly then... I hopenkiernan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:38 pm Cool project I'm also using the TM3 standard range batteries and have some reference 3D models on the forum here if you need to do any checks...they're still bulkier then we'd like. Did a lot of looking at BMS options and finally had to settle on the Orion 2
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Re: Porsche 356 4WD, Chevy, Nissan, Tesla build
What is the length and thickness of those bricks?
And how much kwh does one get?
And how much kwh does one get?
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.