Subaru e-mpreza (Impreza) 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

arber333 wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:50 am
Zapatero wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:07 am Yesterday i took the battery apart. To get 96 of the 98 Kona-Cells in the Impreza it'll be the same puzzle as it was on the GT86 Project.
Also i have to convert 6 of the 8 10S3P Blocks to 9S3P. Two of the Blocks are by factory 9S3P (8x 10S3P + 2x 9S3P = 98 Cells). The Orion BMS can only support 96 Cells in my version, so i won't use 2 of them which equals in 1,3 Kwh less.
My favourite BMS right now is active balancers from Hankzor store https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002 ... 1802NyGfjM
I bought another Orion BMS 2 as i think it's an awesome BMS, alltough quite expensive.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

First important step: Cut the spare wheel well to make room for the battery box and the motor.
PXL_20220412_155131273.jpg
PXL_20220412_160149650.MP.jpg
then i've cut the rear differential mount to make room for the motor. Luckily it fitted between the screw mounts of the suspension links... BARELY!
PXL_20220412_182333184.jpg
PXL_20220412_190347294.MP.jpg
Fabricated some motor mounts:
PXL_20220412_203806248.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Finally hung the motor in the car, but unfortunately it's 4 cm too far down. So i took it out and cut the mounts off to attach them 4cm more up.
PXL_20220412_221730106.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Now the motor is in its final position in the car. It sits as low as the original exhaus manifold and therefore there shouldn't be any problems with the differential sticking out a little bit while driving. The now weakened subframe needs to be reinforced and then painted, but then the rear Motor is finally in the car. Next goal will be the front motor and then the suspension with the drive shafts.
PXL_20220413_091128782.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by marcexec »

Imprezzive :) there's no going back now.

Is it just the angle of the picture or could it be turned "backwards" (Neigung) around say the motor's axle to improve clearance/overall height?
Even it it means additional fabrication on the vertical face of the subframe to take the original mounts?
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

marcexec wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:52 pm Imprezzive :) there's no going back now.

Is it just the angle of the picture or could it be turned "backwards" (Neigung) around say the motor's axle to improve clearance/overall height?
Even it it means additional fabrication on the vertical face of the subframe to take the original mounts?
Imprezzive :lol: :D

I'm not feeling very happy turning the engine in a position that it wasn't designed for as the gearbox filler screw and drain screw would be in weird positions. Also the room underneath the car seems to be like before :)
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I converted my brake pedal with the Prius brake pedal sensor, so regen can be adjusted properly. Setting regen properly just with the digital brake light switch is impossible in my opinion.

So i took the prius brake pedal apart and threw most if it away. I reused only the mount for the sensor and welded it to my brake pedal.
Also i welded a washer on the pedal that moves the sensor
Imp_Pedal.JPG
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PXL_20220424_161414556.jpg
PXL_20220425_065046304.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I applied the Underbody coating
PXL_20220422_214523648.jpg
Next: I have to build the steeriung column with the Prius power steering motor and pot the axles back in the car and connect the wheels with the motor
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by arber333 »

Zapatero wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:21 am I converted my brake pedal with the Prius brake pedal sensor, so regen can be adjusted properly. Setting regen properly just with the digital brake light switch is impossible in my opinion.

So i took the prius brake pedal apart and threw most if it away. I reused only the mount for the sensor and welded it to my brake pedal.
Also i welded a washer on the pedal that moves the sensor
Hardcore! I never thought of something like it :twisted:. Truly variable brake regen!
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by arber333 »

Zapatero wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:16 am Imprezzive :lol: :D

I'm not feeling very happy turning the engine in a position that it wasn't designed for as the gearbox filler screw and drain screw would be in weird positions. Also the room underneath the car seems to be like before :)
It seems to have worked for a guy here...
https://twingorse.wordpress.com/
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

arber333 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:44 am
Zapatero wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:16 am Imprezzive :lol: :D

I'm not feeling very happy turning the engine in a position that it wasn't designed for as the gearbox filler screw and drain screw would be in weird positions. Also the room underneath the car seems to be like before :)
It seems to have worked for a guy here...
https://twingorse.wordpress.com/
He also mounted the motor in the same position as it was original! Just checked the Page!
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by EV_Builder »

arber333 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:41 am Hardcore! I never thought of something like it :twisted:. Truly variable brake regen!
Very cool :)

I was planning doing this with the brake pressure msg on the CanBus from the ABS unit. 8-)
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Cutting the driveshaft just feels so wrong!
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Determining the final length of the outer driveshaft
PXL_20220429_113754416.MP.jpg
Final length, now i need to have the adaptor milled
PXL_20220429_121720556.jpg
Rear motor is finally in!
PXL_20220429_121732672.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I cut an aluminum adaptor that i first shaped out of cardboard. This will protect the Charging Cable and make it accessible while working on it.
This part will be glued into the car, another part i will cut then that fits over this one as a cover.
PXL_20220426_204927228.jpg
Glued into the car:
PXL_20220429_124002206.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Pete9008 »

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses!

I've had a H6 Legacy in the past, and driven the Impreza, and love the way they handle, the 4-wheel drive transforms the way they corner. An electric version with fully controllable front/back torque should be fantastic :evil:
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Pete9008 »

A question on the Outlander diff/motor if you don't mind. Mounting it the right way up as you have is the ideal but I wondered what you though about the possibility of rotating it 90degrees to bring the motor above the driveshaft? This might suit my install better as it moves the weight forward

I don't have a diff yet but from pictures it looks like the oil fill and drain plugs could be swapped to compensate for the rotation and keep the oil level at roughly the same height on the diff.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Pete9008 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:26 pm A question on the Outlander diff/motor if you don't mind. Mounting it the right way up as you have is the ideal but I wondered what you though about the possibility of rotating it 90degrees to bring the motor above the driveshaft? This might suit my install better as it moves the weight forward

I don't have a diff yet but from pictures it looks like the oil fill and drain plugs could be swapped to compensate for the rotation and keep the oil level at roughly the same height on the diff.
I really can't say if mounting it in another position than it was OEM will work, but i'm happy to share my experiences with the motor and the mounts.

Mounts:
The upper mounts are only in vertical and lateral directions stable. They are not longitudinal stable, that mens forward and backwards they won't be able to absorb any mechanical forces. The one in lower front absorbs longitudinal forces and vertical forces. So if you would rotate the motor in ANY direction, you will definately have to fabricate custom mounts as the original ones will not be able to absorb the forces anymore. Even if you tilt it just like 10 degrees or so, it won't work! In Addition the rubbers in the mounts are very very soft! I expected them to be harder.

Water:
If you rotate the motor in another way then it was originally i would be concerned that there could build up pockets of air in the water flow and parts of the motor could overheat.

Oil
Drain and filler screw are definately different. Even if you rotate it by 90 Degrees, the Drain screw will be further up than the filler screw was before. Also you wouldn't be able to fully empty the oil out of the gearbox. Also i would be concerned that the oil can't be distrubuted as intended and therefore lead in damage.

Over all i would say: Try it out and let uns know if it works and my concerns are wrong ;) The damage is a gearbox at max, so not too bad!
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Pete9008 »

Thanks for that. Shame on the fill and drain plus, from pictures it looked like it might work.

Good point on the mounts too, something that I hadn't considered (although I was expecting to need custom mounts for other reasons too).

Once I get a motor I'll have a look and see. The other option is to run it in reverse but that option makes me uneasy.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by aot93 »

This going to be a very nice car.

For info my Outlander motor has been running upside-down for around 1,000 miles now with out problem.

Mounts I fabricated my own - The OEM rubber is very soft, not what you want in most conversions IMO
Water - I've had no problem with airlock, the water flows well and it does not get hot, but my car is quite light.
Oil - I fill through the drain, and drain through the fill, again seems fine, the oil thrower is basic and keeps the diff oiled. The service life on the oil is so long that I should not need to drain it before I have to take the motor out for something.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Pete9008 »

aot93 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:50 pm For info my Outlander motor has been running upside-down for around 1,000 miles now with out problem.
Sorry to go off topic but that is really interesting, do you have a build thread anywhere, any pictures? Do you actually have the motor down below the level of axle line then?
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Pete9008 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:03 am Sorry to go off topic but that is really interesting, do you have a build thread anywhere, any pictures? Do you actually have the motor down below the level of axle line then?
I would like to see that, too ;)
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

The last few days i worked on the power steering conversion. I use a prius gen 2 power steering and i'm also going to integrate it properly in the canbus so i can adjust power steering support according to speed of the vehicle. The conversion was a lot of work in my opinion but it's the only proper way of doing it, as using the hydraulic power steering is not an option for me.

Most important for me was to keep the ability of the column to retract in case of a crash.

I've cut the impreza steering shaft on the upper part and connected that with the splined shaft of the prius power steering, but i had to have someone fabricate an adapter tube on a lathe:
PXL_20220506_083405205.jpg
Next i've cut the the outside of the steering column and welded it to the prius motor, that i've cut, too. Also here i've had someone fabricate a proper adapter on a lathe. Then i aligned the steering motor under the dash to make sure there is enough room when using the tilting mechanism.

The product then was half a steering column with the motor:
PXL_20220508_101504865.jpg
I cut a prius intermediate steering column shaft apart and welded the splined part directly on the outer hull of the sliding mechanism. Also i fabricated a base plate to screw on the lower half of the outer pipe:
Before:
shaft.JPG
After:
PXL_20220508_092427762.jpg
^

The lower part of the inner shaft consists of a prius sliding inner mechanism and the Impreza lower end part that goes to the steering rack.
The outer hull consists of the Impreza parts that can retract in case of a crash and the inner part can too, due to the prius sliding mechanism.
PXL_20220508_101135291.jpg
Tomorrow i will put it all in the car.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Pete9008 »

Really enjoying the quality of the engineering and the attention to detail on this!
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by aot93 »

No the motor is still above / inline the axle but inverted from standard position.

Not quite up to your standard of engineering!
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Bratitude »

Was it just hard to source a electric Subaru steering rack?

They are like legos…
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
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