Subaru e-mpreza (Impreza) 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by arber333 »

I am doing this a lot.
You need to watch out for correct direction of twist though... i found it is better to have a convention of RIGHT twist every time.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Bratitude wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 1:43 pm
Pretty much!

you need:
steering(done!)
Brake(half way there?)
throttle(done)
vss (done!)
radar (easy)

Here’s the open pilot fork for old cars : https://github.com/Lukilink/openpilot
What i figured out is that i need the steering angle sensor, too.
Unfortunately it doesn't fit properly in my steering column.

Any suggestions for easy to install steering sensors?
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Also it seems they use newer versions of the power steering. Is the Prius 2007 EPS working for openpilot, too? Maybe someone knows?
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by arber333 »

Zapatero wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 9:32 am Also it seems they use newer versions of the power steering. Is the Prius 2007 EPS working for openpilot, too? Maybe someone knows?
Hm... you could install clio or corsa epas...rally cars have them installed a lot. But that goes under the steering wheel.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Scubascooby »

Find a legacy diesel, they have eps.
Project: EV Subaru Legacy estate diesel
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I already added eps from a Prius 2007 but it seems you need an eps that already supports LKAS (Lane keep assist)
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by EV_Builder »

Zapatero wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:48 am I already added eps from a Prius 2007 but it seems you need an eps that already supports LKAS (Lane keep assist)
Maybe that's an option which can be activated?
Saying that most diagnosis software wants to see a almost complete car.
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Bratitude »

what crimp tool are you using?
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Bratitude wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:25 am what crimp tool are you using?
i have several, but sometimes also not the appropriate one. Still i can crimp most things :)
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I loaded the car on my trailer to paint it one last time. At one rear fender the metal morphed a bit too much while welding and i had to redo it. So we decided to paint the whole car again for a perfect finish.
PXL_20220608_123037233.jpg
Finally the Impreza is mostly put back together.
Just a few more days of work and then full attention can be paid to the EV-conversion again.
PXL_20220610_163018877.MP.jpg
PXL_20220610_163032757.MP.jpg
PXL_20220610_163042372.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

Meanwhile the long ordered Orion BMS from EV-Shop Europe in Romania arrived. I ordered the Orion the second time with them as they are very reliable and also have the cheapest offer in Europe.
PXL_20220609_190642688.jpg
I then fabricated a proper mount for the BMS:
PXL_20220609_191201694.jpg
PXL_20220609_191209324.jpg
In this position the original boot carpet has a door for the car lift and spare wheel tools. Now one can access the BMS there.
PXL_20220609_191348059.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

before painting the car again i installed the CCS charging port (uninstalled it for painting, again)
PXL_20220603_083202765.jpg
Also i received my custom drive shafts from motomax.pl. I had the contact out of this forum and must say they did awesome work for just 150Eur a drive shaft. I just sent them the two cut halfes of each side. Couldn't be happier with that and definately will let them do the front ones, too!
PXL_20220603_084903922.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by EV_Builder »

Zapatero wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:47 pm Also i received my custom drive shafts from motomax.pl. I had the contact out of this forum and must say they did awesome work for just 150Eur a drive shaft. I just sent them the two cut halfes of each side. Couldn't be happier with that and definately will let them do the front ones, too!
PXL_20220603_084903922.jpg
Yeah just like mine! Perfect price for good product (complete new shafts).
When i'm ready for the fronts they get mine too!
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I'm still assembling the car, but another EV-Detail has been installed today: 3 Phase CCS Charging Socket!
PXL_20220621_205255318.MP.jpg
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I've build another EPAS that has support of can bus controlled driving. The EPAS is out of a 2018 Toyota Yaris:
image.png
I now have a steering wheel from a way newer Subaru that has the cruise control buttons and also radio control buttons.
Also it has the steering angle sensor, that is needed for comma.ai
image.png
This EPAS control unit is out of a 2018 Toyota Corolla and it is compatible comma.ai
image.png
I also bought the radar sensor that will go in the front of the car and is compatible with comma.ai, too:
image.png
image.png
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Bratitude »

im really excited your adding open pilot to this project. definitely one of the coolest builds I've seen in a while
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

I'm test fitting to front motor. In the next few days it should be finally in the car.
image.png
image.png
I'm determining at the moment how i solve the battery-puzzle. I need some opinions here:

I realized that it would be very difficult to put all 96 cells in the car (actually there are 98 in the Kona but the version of the Orion BMS i have can only handle 96 cells).

i can easily fit 86 cells like this:
Batteries.jpg
That would result in:

Kona OEM 98 Cells /// 86Cells
KWh: 64 /// 56
Kg: 333 /// 292
Volt: 294 - 401 /// 258 - 352

Johannes told me that i have to derate KW linear by the amount of cells i'm taking out.
86/98 = 88% of the original capacity.
That would mean the Kona had 160Kw and i could only pull 140 Kw.
The maximum of charge power the Kona sees is 78 Kw so that would be 68 Kw.

What do you think, could i still pull 160Kw out of the 86 cells?
70Kw charge power would be alright for me, so that's not gonna be an issue.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by EV_Builder »

The maximum peak amperage per cell is the same. So if you lower the voltage then Kw peak will be lower. So it depends on the margin/ amperage of the cells.
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

EV_Builder wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:52 pm The maximum peak amperage per cell is the same. So if you lower the voltage then Kw peak will be lower. So it depends on the margin/ amperage of the cells.
Are there specs where a cell starts to deteriorate because of pulling to many amps out of it?
one single Kona-Cell has 218 Wh and can deliver by default 544 Wh (160.000W / 98 / 3) That results in 2,5C
i would pull 620 Wh out of it (160.000W / 86 / 3) That results in 2,85C
That means 14% more...
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by EV_Builder »

Zapatero wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:32 pm Are there specs where a cell starts to deteriorate because of pulling to many amps out of it?
one single Kona-Cell has 218 Wh and can deliver by default 544 Wh (160.000W / 98 / 3) That results in 2,5C
i would pull 620 Wh out of it (160.000W / 86 / 3) That results in 2,85C
That means 14% more...
You can try looking it up but i have no data or reference about that cell.
Do you know whats inside? Who made it?

On internet the best resource i found are: https://www.batemo.de/products/batemo-c ... rary/e66a/
(as per example my TayCan cells).

I guess/think that temperature and SoC have allot of influence on the C rating.
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by arber333 »

Zapatero wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:32 pm
Are there specs where a cell starts to deteriorate because of pulling to many amps out of it?
one single Kona-Cell has 218 Wh and can deliver by default 544 Wh (160.000W / 98 / 3) That results in 2,5C
i would pull 620 Wh out of it (160.000W / 86 / 3) That results in 2,85C
That means 14% more...
I have seen (and heard) Kokam LiPo cells go dead from too much amps. They get quite hot at that but they seem to have a backup. When they die a copper link resolves between electrodes which makes a direct path for the current to go through. I could drive my car further on the highway! A safety measure as alternative would surely mean fire. I dont know if LiIon have similar mechanism. Just be carefull, Kona cells dont have the best reputation.
Maybe better to use Audi etron cells which are similar format but have bigger electrode tabs.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by 4markowen »

Could additional batteries be mounted in the transmission tunnel? given it had an exhaust and prop shaft running down it.

I presume you might have already offered them up to that space though.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by EV_Builder »

I'm packing 16Taycan modules in my tunnel and fuel tank place. Lots of work though because the shape and construction isn't straight forward.
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: Subaru Impreza 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by Zapatero »

EV_Builder wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:52 pm
You can try looking it up but i have no data or reference about that cell.
Do you know whats inside? Who made it?

On internet the best resource i found are: https://www.batemo.de/products/batemo-c ... rary/e66a/
(as per example my TayCan cells).

I guess/think that temperature and SoC have allot of influence on the C rating.
i found it, they have the cell of the Kia Niro which is the same as the cell of the Hyundai Kona:

Kia Niro
The Batemo Cell of the lithium-ion battery cell SKI Kia Niro is a high-precision, physical battery model with global validity. As a digital twin it seamlessly integrates into your research, development and battery analytics by basing your decisions on simulations.

cell report of the SKI Kia Niro.

Cell Origin extracted from Kia Niro (2019)
Cell Format pouch
Dimensions 300.5 x 108.5 x 15 mm
Weight 899.3 g
Capacity C/10 62.3 Ah
Current continuous 120 A peak 284 A
Energy C/10 230.8 Wh
Power continuous 422 W peak 968 W
Energy Density gravimetric 257 Wh/kg volumetric 607 Wh/l
Power Density gravimetric 1.08 kW/kg volumetric 2.55 kW/l


That means that 86 cells are well capable of still delivering the 160Kw, of course not continuously
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Re: Subaru e-mpreza (Impreza) 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

Post by EV_Builder »

Monitor temperature or even better cool it 🙂
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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