Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by RetroZero »

If I connect to original hv inputs, I'll be limited to 20Kw? I have to provide proof for every deviation from the original set up, so am trying to stay as standard as possible... With power split device locked and adapter board as 'only modifications'
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

"gen2 transaxle with gen2 inverter and #openinverter vcu running with full throttle control"

https://twitter.com/EvBmw/status/1301471950930313216
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by SciroccoEV »

RetroZero wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:17 pm If I connect to original hv inputs, I'll be limited to 20Kw? I have to provide proof for every deviation from the original set up, so am trying to stay as standard as possible... With power split device locked and adapter board as 'only modifications'
If you use the original battery input and the boost converter for its original purpose, then you'll be limited to about 20Kw PEAK. I know from Richard Hatfield of Lightning Motorcycles, who developed a plug in conversion for the Gen2 Prius, that the boost converter will go into thermal limit when used for extended periods. You could bypass the boost converter by having the upper transistor on all the time, but you'll still be passing current through the inductor all the time and that will be your thermal limit.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by johu »

SciroccoEV wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:46 pm If you use the original battery input and the boost converter for its original purpose, then you'll be limited to about 20Kw PEAK. I know from Richard Hatfield of Lightning Motorcycles, who developed a plug in conversion for the Gen2 Prius, that the boost converter will go into thermal limit when used for extended periods. You could bypass the boost converter by having the upper transistor on all the time, but you'll still be passing current through the inductor all the time and that will be your thermal limit.
I noticed by default the upper IGBT is ON. Of course current going INTO the inverter will rather go via the upper diode because that only drops 0.3V (I assume Schottky) instead of 2V via IGBT. So that means there is nothing the converter can do to stop current going INTO the inverter. Also the inductor won't heat mut from passing DC through it. Anyone know its ohmic resistance?

My assumption is that you can pass well over 20kW through the converter when it is not being clocked.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Isaac96 »

I'm working on getting my car running with a Gen2 Prius inverter, pending a few more tests with the Volt system.
Starting my testing with a STM32 nucleo F103rb - I can recommend it for basic firmware messing around, the built-in STlink does both programming and serial and all the I/O is broken out.
I'm not going to be using current sensors since the Prius can take care of itself - I'll just turn it up til it dies, then back off a little.

Now I've got a couple of questions before I start the lightbulb tests:
Does the sine firmware have a unipolar PWM setting?
If not, should I use positive or negative polarity, and from which PWM pins?

Thanks!
-Isaac

EDIT Also, my board thinks it's a Model 3, how can I convince it otherwise? I can't set hwver to anything besides 0 - "value out of range."
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Isaac96 »

Seems like my concerns are no biggie, since I just spun an alternator using 24v, the Prius inverter, and the Nucleo board (yes I am using a ULN2001). Next step is to adapt the Volt interface board to Prius use -- the 74ls06 will do the same job as the ULN and I don't need current sensors at all.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Matthew100 »

johu wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:59 am
SciroccoEV wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:46 pm If you use the original battery input and the boost converter for its original purpose, then you'll be limited to about 20Kw PEAK. I know from Richard Hatfield of Lightning Motorcycles, who developed a plug in conversion for the Gen2 Prius, that the boost converter will go into thermal limit when used for extended periods. You could bypass the boost converter by having the upper transistor on all the time, but you'll still be passing current through the inductor all the time and that will be your thermal limit.
I noticed by default the upper IGBT is ON. Of course current going INTO the inverter will rather go via the upper diode because that only drops 0.3V (I assume Schottky) instead of 2V via IGBT. So that means there is nothing the converter can do to stop current going INTO the inverter. Also the inductor won't heat mut from passing DC through it. Anyone know its ohmic resistance?

My assumption is that you can pass well over 20kW through the converter when it is not being clocked.
For compliance easing and to be seen to have less physical modifications. Connecting the HV cables to the oem point and using the converter up to 20kw and than going into a bypass mode. From a Practical standpoint, would that enable better low speed performance and take off / start stop around town. Perhaps with tapping the converter off to not have dull spot on power delivery. With a slight efficiency loss on the higher power loads exceeding 20kw?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by johu »

Isaac96 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:32 am EDIT Also, my board thinks it's a Model 3, how can I convince it otherwise? I can't set hwver to anything besides 0 - "value out of range."
PB1 and PC9 must be grounded and PB5 must be floating. That will detect as "Prius" board.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by tkelly2784 »

Hi everyone, this is my first post

I just got a Gen 2 inverter and I'd like to do some simple tests before moving on to a control board. I would like to spin a DC seat motor with 12V through MG2 U phase. Can you double check my connections before I hook up the battery?

12V to main rail and pin 25 MSDN

GND to main rail and motor -

U phase to motor +

When I want it to turn on I should be able to apply pin 9 MUU to ground and remove it to turn it off.

Has anyone tried U + V, V + W, U + W, or U + V + W in parallel yet? 900A+ DC would be a lot of fun. I have a Warp 9 in an E30 8-)

Has anyone ever made a TIG welder out of one of these?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by mattndex@gmail.com »

Watching this for a reply as well. Would be interesting to know the capabilities of having u,v &w combined into one output.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Isaac96 »

@tkelly - your wiring is correct. I suggest that you use separate power supplies for the motor and the electronics though.
I'm not sure if it will work with 12V, 24V will certainly be fine.

Combining phases should work just fine; you'd get at least 1000A, shutdown current for MG2 is 460A as confirmed by Damien. Some current balancing via PWM might be necessary, as well as current limiting, but you've got all 3 current sensors right there onboard.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by mattndex@gmail.com »

Does this mean MUU,MVU and MWU will be fed with the same pwm signal?
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by tkelly2784 »

Thanks for the reply, I'm going to try it out in DC on one output tonight. I'm not 100% sure that you can apply two or more outputs at the same time. I was reading this document and if you scroll all the way to the bottom the control circuitry adds about 8us of dead time between gate timing.

http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/ginv/i3elec.html

This is important because you don't want to direct short two poles while it is running. On G3+ and some other drivers you have to program that time in yourself. For more information you can watch Damien's video "can't kill a Toyota inverter" I think it's the 3rd one.

I don't have any more of these so I'm not going to risk popping an obscure fuse or resistor in the drive board to test it. If you try it and nothing bad happens I will try it to verify.

I'm interested in the boost converter IGBT too. It looks like it could be useful for a DC motor. What is CL, CN, and CP? Is that like Closed normally and Closed Pulsed?

https://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/ ... SA060.html
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by tkelly2784 »

Hello again,

All the electronics seem to work at 12V, at least in the inverter control module, not sure about the 12V converter.

I was successful in getting MG2 to function with PWM. I was playing with some DC motors at 120V yesterday, very fun! I also tried using two phases of MG2 together. As long as the signal is pulled down at the exact same time the two phases will conduct. If you pull one signal to float then reapply it to ground it will not turn on until the other signal is removed from ground.

I need some more info on how the voltage converter IGBT module works. I would like to use it as a DC motor controller. I have sorted out almost all the pins and their corresponding wires on the main harness

1 12V+ Red
2 GND Blk
3 Boost converter PWM switch signal Blue P13
4 Overvoltage Pink P28
5 Boost converter input voltage signal Purple-White P15
6 ?MG1 Shutdown Green-Red P14 ?
7-9 non-pop
10 Boost converter shutdown signal Brown-White P29
11 Boost converter temperature sensor Brown-Black P20
12 Boost converter fail signal White-REd P30
13 Boost converter over voltage signal Pink-Blue
14-15 non-pop
16 Vbatt Orange

The three output terminals are CL, CP, and CN. In the factory configuration CL is coming from the coil, CP goes to the caps (this is where you bypass the device) and CN goes to ground.


To try this I hooked up a circuit with a light bulb

Battery + -> Pin 1 +12V, pin 6 GSDN, pin 10 CSDN, one side of 12V bulb, Pin 16 Vbatt

Battery - -> pin 2 gnd, CN

CP -> other side of the 12V bulb

Floating/Ground Pin 3

There is no change when pin 3 is grounded.

One thing I did notice is if the bulb is connected to CL and GND to CP it will light up. Bulb on CL, GND on CN no light. Bulb on CP, GND on CN, no light. I thought it would have lit up when the PWM control is engaged but I'm not totally sure how it works. Is there something to do with the over voltage circuit? It goes to the other MG devices and the regular plug.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by geduxaz »

Good day. Sorry for maybe stupid question. I was trying to run through all 17 pages, but..
What board i could buy today to run Gen2 Prius inverter? I cant find this board for bluepill for sale.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by johu »

The Blue Pill board is no longer available.
This is the recent board: https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php ... duct_id=63
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by geduxaz »

johu wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:47 am The Blue Pill board is no longer available.
This is the recent board: https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php ... duct_id=63
Could i use this:
https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php ... duct_id=58
to drive Gen2 Prius?
This board looks more universal. Later i do not know what inverter i will go. Would like to have universal board, but still try to start from Gen2 inverter as got it very cheap.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by johu »

No.
All the Prius glue logic is missing and you'd have to add it externally.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

8 month BUMP / revival.

So, 2+ years ago I ordered this Blue PIll board, and then ordered the components, and then assembled the board. And then started the wiki page for it. And then asked a million dumb questions and made a bunch of diagrams and documented as much of it as I could. And then burned out.

I've finally done some workbench archaeology and rummaged all the way back to flat bare wood again, removing 2 years of clutter and "Maybe I'll fix this later" projects that had accumulated.

I know me asking questions here on an obsolete project with no support might be a long shot, but, I'd still like to pick this up and see if I can get an ACIM motor to spin. So...

...

1 - Can I still use this board? Will it work? Was the Blue Pill ever figured out to be unworkable or not?

2 - I have very minimal understanding of microcontrollers and software. If I were to update this to the latest firmware, would it work? I recall a year ago there was something about moving to a different chip platform or something? Johannes made his own Prius Gen 2 board and presumably some new software too. What/where/etc do I get the software to flash onto the blue pill?

3 - Any idiotproof beginner steps to take, that you would have to explain to a child? For example, I read here earlier this week something about "Oh, if the HV battery pack ever gets disconnected, the inverter fries itself", but I have no idea if that applies to this situation, etc. Any other stuff like that? Limitations/procedures?

4 - Anyone out there ever use or still use their blue pill based board? Wish me luck!
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Well, it's been another month...

I've managed to wire up everything I think needs to be wired up, so, tomorrow is the big day.

If anyone can help answer questions I'd much appreciate it, else, YOLOSMOKE it'll be.

Here's my setup:

I'll be attempting to spin a smaller (forklift pump, 30% the size of the big one) ACIM.

I planned to skip connecting:
- The encoder (I'll expand to this later)
- The current sensors (some extra circuit is needed and no one's written it out in idiotproof format yet).
- Motor or inverter temperature sensors (short test)

For my 12V board input, I'll be using a 1amp bench supply and feeding it 13.8v.

For my HV input, I'll be using a 3A VARIAC with an FWB and a cap across the output, and for starters, a 100w lightbulb in series. I was gonna aim for 80-100v or so.

My Precharge and Main contactors are actually just AC relays on the variac input for now (precharge resistor is a 25w lightbulb).

My wifi is the Wemos D1 Mini, with whatever I installed on it 2+ years ago (does it need updating?).

My Blue Pill has whatever SINE file I put on it 2+ years ago (do I need to do anything to tell it that it's a Blue Pill? Will the latest SINE file also work?).

I have no parameters changed. I've never used the OpenInverter interface before. I went to the parameter database, and it looks like only 9 people in the last 1.5 years have uploaded a parameter block. So, I guess I might be the first for an ACIM.

I'm supposed to connect MSDN (pin 25) to 12v. That is "motor shutdown", but, you keep it at 12v to prevent it from shutting down, and disconncting it would shut the inverter down (not the reverse).

I'm supposed to connect MFIV (pin 27) to its spot on the board. That is some kind of "fault". I presume it stays connected, and if disconnected, triggers some fault?

I'm supposed to connect VDC (pin 12) to its spot on the board. This is how it measures battery voltage, presumably so it knows when it's okay to flip from your precharge to your full power contactor. How does it know what voltage is "full" voltage? How does it know whether I have an 80v or a 400v battery, to know when to switch off the precharge?

I am connecting the HV battery... at the normal battery points? Or further down? Do I need to disconnect the boost converter wires from the terminals?

...

I think that's it. That's my plans, and unless someone advises me otherwise, I'm just going to wing it and see if anything explodes.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by mjc506 »

Have you read the wiki? Some of it won't apply to the bluepill, but the principles will be useful. The software should identify that it's running on the bluepill automagically.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

mjc506 wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:22 pmHave you read the wiki? Some of it won't apply to the bluepill, but the principles will be useful.
I've tried to a few times.

The problem is that this was written for the original OI standalone boards, so it's overly prescriptive in some areas that don't apply.

There's so many different places you need to apply context of a different situation that, chances are I'm going to get at least one presumption wrong.

Also, ugh. It's very much not user friendly. It's (because it is) UI by an engineer :p . In a perfect world of infinite resources, a UI person would take over and do things like, combine the first 4 commands you manually enter, into a button you click that says "10 Hz Spinup, motor should spin at 10hz." Or a procedure you work through. Not just, endless technical jargon.

But I digress. It's mostly just that I'm afraid of guessing wrong, and I know I'll be guessing a few dozen times.

I wish I understood this really well, because I think I could explain it so that everyone could understand. But, can't teach what you don't know :(
The software should identify that it's running on the bluepill automagically.
Okay, whew. One big fear diminished.

I also found an answer to how it knows what to use for pre-charge voltage, you set it, and the instructions say set it to ~80% of your max voltage. That's another easy item checked off the list.

I tried figuring out the part about setting the field weakinging/slip point, not sure what to do.

"Therefor you have to do some math with your motors nameplate values. You need to calculate the frequency at which the motor can be driven with the maximum output voltage. Beyond that point, the motor operates in the field weakening region, therefor the parameter is called fweak. This calculates as follows:

So for a DC bus voltage of 350V, a nameplate frequency of 60Hz and a nameplace voltage of 200V you get fweak=60Hz x (350V/1.41)/200V = 74.5Hz. Now type..."


My small motor says: 33vac 85hz. But, it's a forklift motor and I intend to run it at like, 200-400v eventually, probably 80-100v for testing. So, how do I do that calculation? I can think of multiple ways that might be right or might be wrong. And, my bus voltage is going to be selected to mate with how high a voltage I'll drive my motor, I think.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

Whelp... I went for it.

My bench supply maxes out at 1 amp.

It appears to get really grouchy trying to power the inverter off that. I brought it up gracefully but the current was pegged. Not wanting to fry something, I disconnected the inverter power from the rig, and the control board only draws some 60mA. Maybe even including the main relay.

Anyone know how much current the inverter needs on it's 12V line? I could hook up a jump pack to it, but then I don't have any current limiting at all in the event the inverter is fried.

In any case, the Blue Pill booted up, got its heartbeat back, the Wemos D1 served up a webpage and parameters loaded in. Looks like, logic-wise she's as alive as she was when I abandoned her 2 years ago.

Even my "small" motor here is 100lbs. Eesh. And no bolts for the power cables, might have to wait to tonight until I find some before I do motor tests.

Image
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by mjc506 »

The inverter needs about 1 amp on the 12V rail :-)

Appreciate that it's all rather 'hands on and code-y', but do go through the steps. It should be fairly obvious what doesn't apply (extra sensor boards etc) especially if comparing with the prius controller board page? Type carefully, embrace the tediousness - the lessons you'll learn will be very useful as you start troubleshooting and tuning.
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Re: Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

Post by Isaac96 »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:05 pm Even my "small" motor here is 100lbs. Eesh. And no bolts for the power cables, might have to wait to tonight until I find some before I do motor tests.

Image
Another good test is using three lightbulbs connected across the inverter phases. I used that setup to verify operation of my Gen2 inverter -- basically a 12v bulb across each pair of phases (A-B, B-C, C-A). Then you can get comfortable with the interface, command orders, while being able to see the effects without spinning 100lbs of copper.
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