openinverter forum

Posted: **Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:21 pm**

Hi guys
I just watched a video on Youtube where a guy put a Mini Cooper electric power steering pump into his Hot Rod.
This is interesting enough but while reading the comments he mentioned at one point he changed the fluid to normal power steering fluid and the pump started drawing crazy current. When he put in fluid that was correct for the mini the problem stopped.
The reason I found this so interesting is my Zafira pump went mad drawing crazy current and I was using standard power steering fluid.
Could it be the problem was the fluid I was using? Unfortunately my EPAS pump met with an accident involving a soldering iron being accidently turned on so unless I buy another I won't be able to test this.

Here is the video.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:56 am**

What exactly was the "standard" power steering fluid you used?

The Mini usually takes the green Pentosin CHF11S (or equivalent) and the TRW pump needs the same.
I've read that people used ATF, but as there are maaaaany different ATFs with different viscosities, it's probably better to use the fluid the pump was designed for.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:06 am**

crasbe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:56 am What exactly was the "standard" power steering fluid you used?

The Mini usually takes the green Pentosin CHF11S (or equivalent) and the TRW pump needs the same.
I've read that people used ATF, but as there are maaaaany different ATFs with different viscosities, it's probably better to use the fluid the pump was designed for.

I used Dexron III atf which I was told was standard PS fluid for a Landrover Freelander. It was only after the soldering iron incident that I discovered the fluid may have been the issue.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:52 am**

I'm hopefully going to be removing my Zafira pump it some point in the next few months, you are welcome to it once it's out. I measured it's draw while turning the wheel at 14amps btw, it's just too loud for my liking.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:58 pm**

Bigpie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:52 am I'm hopefully going to be removing my Zafira pump it some point in the next few months, you are welcome to it once it's out. I measured it's draw while turning the wheel at 14amps btw, it's just too loud for my liking.

Thanks for that but I'm going to go ahead with the alternator motor and Freelander PS pump. It may be stupid and I might regret it but it's fun and something a bit different. I already have the brackets made up so it should just be a matter of bolting it all together when I'm ready.
BTW what are you going to replace it with?

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:09 pm**

I just looked up the Datasheets from Rowe for Dexron IIIG and IIIH and their ZH-M hydraulic liquid and the dynamic viscosity of the ATF is about 50% higher. That might certainly increase the resistance for the pump and therefore the current drawn.
Maybe there's a combination of your pump being faulty AND the wrong fluid. In the Freelander thread you wrote it draws 25A, which would be waaaay too much.

I don't know how the Freelander steering rack deals with the CHF11S CHF202/equivalent. It might be worth a shot since the pumps are not that expensive

They can be found in Astras as well.

Your other setup with the alternator looks interesting, but it possibly needs a dynamic tensioner as well for the Multi-V belt.

Edit: I previously wrote CHF11S, but the Zafira actually calls for CHF202 with Opel requirement 19 40 766.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:25 pm**

I've been given a VW electric steering rack from a later model Beetle, I'm hoping it fits without any modification. I've read it has a failsafe mode, but I'm hoping all the can messages I already have will be enough to make it happy.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:53 pm**

Yes it works without CAN or with the 0x280 message containing engine rpm. If so, rpm must be greater some threshold (600 or so) for it to work.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:23 pm**

Don't suppose you know the pin out? My googling isn't coming up with much

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:06 am**

Bigpie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:23 pm Don't suppose you know the pin out? My googling isn't coming up with much

Can you take a shot of connectors on the rack? I will see if 5hey are the same on my Ampera epas. I have wiring for that.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:16 am**

Big one has to be 12v supply. Pin 1 looks like ground, so 2 must be 12v.

Found some info, I'll not paste an image as it's probably copyrighted.

Of the large 2 pin connector 1 is GND, 2 is 12v through an 80 amp fuse.
Of the 5 pin connector, pin 1 is CAN L and 2 is CAN H, pin 4 is ignition 12v though a 10 amp fuse.

It connects to the powertrain CAN.

*EDIT*
I applied 12v to the big connectors and to pin 4 and no failsafe mode, will see if anything comes out of the can pins tomorrow..

* EDIT *
No can coming out, I noticed the manual has the pin numbers opposite to marked on the socket for the 5 pin, either orientation yields no can or failsafe mode.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:26 pm**

crasbe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:09 pm I just looked up the Datasheets from Rowe for Dexron IIIG and IIIH and their ZH-M hydraulic liquid and the dynamic viscosity of the ATF is about 50% higher. That might certainly increase the resistance for the pump and therefore the current drawn.
Maybe there's a combination of your pump being faulty AND the wrong fluid. In the Freelander thread you wrote it draws 25A, which would be waaaay too much.

I don't know how the Freelander steering rack deals with the CHF11S CHF202/equivalent. It might be worth a shot since the pumps are not that expensive
They can be found in Astras as well.

Your other setup with the alternator looks interesting, but it possibly needs a dynamic tensioner as well for the Multi-V belt.

Edit: I previously wrote CHF11S, but the Zafira actually calls for CHF202 with Opel requirement 19 40 766.

I made a couple of videos

The alternator motor shows up at 4:20

Good point about the tensioner but I'll worry about that later. It seems to be OK for now.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:57 pm**

I like your plan 'B'. Bravo.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:12 pm**

Also got the VW rack working. Will document on the wiki.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:19 pm**

RetroZero wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:57 pm I like your plan 'B'. Bravo.

If I ever manage to fit Hall sensors to the altymotor I will be able to use a Sinewave controller which will be SOOO much quieter than this one.
If I can fit a permanent magnet I'll loose the losses in the rotor and do away with the brushes.
But these are upgrades for the future.

Bigpie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:12 pm Also got the VW rack working. Will document on the wiki.

Well done.

Posted: **Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 pm**

I would think its the banjo bolt who lets the pump think the wheels aren't straight, and then it keeps working.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:46 am**

EV_Builder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 pm I would think its the banjo bolt who lets the pump think the wheels aren't straight, and then it keeps working.

I thought that too but even with the proper connection it still wouldn't spool down.
I still think it was either faulty or the wrong fluid.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:57 am**

Ok, mhhh i would think that fluid don't have that much short term influence.
i have the same pump so i hope i will have a better experience.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:45 pm**

There is a Volvo CanBus controlled look a like pump "on the market" might be a plan C.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:34 pm**

Why not just use a Prius/Etc full electric power steering? No hydraulic at all. IIRC it's one wire, and without communication defaults to a comfortable value.

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:26 pm**

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:34 pm Why not just use a Prius/Etc full electric power steering? No hydraulic at all. IIRC it's one wire, and without communication defaults to a comfortable value.

In my case my cars steering was designed to be hydraulic assisted so to use a Prius EPAS motor to force the steering from the column would probably not be a good idea. It was never designed to work that way and could shorten it's life considerably.
For older cars that did not have power assistance then EPAS should work well.

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:50 pm**

Has anyone used the Bosch (MINI Cooper) pump and found a fitting to adapt the high side pressure fitting to -6AN? Any advice on the connecting the pressure lines would be a great help

openinverter forum

Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini

Re: Electric Power Steering pump from Mini