Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

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riii
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by riii »

Testing day notes for Tuesday 4/28/2020

On the previous test day Regen was causing BMS to shut down main contact while attempting to drive with full battery. For this test day Regen was disabled by setting Idcmin (maximum output current) from -5000 to 0.

Adjusting Boost
After a few hours of tuning and testing starts and stops motor oscillations during acceleration from stop have not discontinued. Motor oscillations are most consistent at speeds between 1.5-6 miles an hour. After 6 MPH motor runs smoothly. If you engage full throttle from stop there are no oscillations but it’s an aggressive start from stop. Lowering boost below 3700 makes oscillations more forcefully jolty and increasing boost above 4010 seems to induce more oscillations as well. It may be worth going higher to see if it gets any better or worse but I’m unsure of its effect on the health of the motor.

Adjusting Fslipmin
Initial motor turn has consistently been a forceful jolt from stop with no observable feathered ramp of RPM’s. Lowering Fslipmin to .8 seems like the lowest it will go with a very sluggish throttle. Lower than .8 the motor jitters and struggles to start. Increasing Fslipmin to 2, motor jolts on with even higher torque. So as of now for some reason, adjusting Fslip min to get a smooth start has been unsuccessful.

Power steering continues to turn on and off intermittently. Most times when not moving and a couple times when moving at low speeds.

There was one event where both the brake pump and power steering deactivated simultaneously while driving 5-10 MPH and the main contactor did not open, the motor was still able to turn but with compromised braking and no power steering. At stop, I power cycled the ignition key and power steering and brake activated normally.

I’m not clear about how regen and derate may affect throttle travel. Most parameter adjustments regarding those are for the brake pedal.

Fweak is set to 140 rather than 158, adjustment to 150 is not much different or a little worse.

Dead time is at 180 rather than 58.


Parameters posted in link.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f02 ... sp=sharing
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by arber333 »

My answers inline......
Testing day notes for Tuesday 4/28/2020

On the previous test day Regen was causing BMS to shut down main contact while attempting to drive with full battery. For this test day Regen was disabled by setting Idcmin (maximum output current) from -5000 to 0.

Adjusting Boost
After a few hours of tuning and testing starts and stops motor oscillations during acceleration from stop have not discontinued. Motor oscillations are most consistent at speeds between 1.5-6 miles an hour. After 6 MPH motor runs smoothly. If you engage full throttle from stop there are no oscillations but it’s an aggressive start from stop. Lowering boost below 3700 makes oscillations more forcefully jolty and increasing boost above 4010 seems to induce more oscillations as well. It may be worth going higher to see if it gets any better or worse but I’m unsure of its effect on the health of the motor.

I would think motor will not have a problem with anything short of overheating. The clutch part will though. But it is sacrificial thing in any case.
I would encourage you to leave boost as is and first go set "ampmin" parameter. You set it as low as you will be comfortable to driveoff with minimum play in the throttle. This means you observe how you feel about slow and deliberate crawl. When you have set the minimum of what you think is usable for crawl you go and try to vary the boost. Do you use protected drivers? If so, they should shutoff from desat when there is too much boost.
BTW i use 7000 boost, 3.1 Fslipmin, 7.0 Fslipmax and 21 ampmin for my motor with 380Vdc and it drives well in slow traffic. but i have UDCnom set at 320V.

Set brknompedal at 0 or -1 for testing this will eliminate regen.


Adjusting Fslipmin
Initial motor turn has consistently been a forceful jolt from stop with no observable feathered ramp of RPM’s. Lowering Fslipmin to .8 seems like the lowest it will go with a very sluggish throttle. Lower than .8 the motor jitters and struggles to start. Increasing Fslipmin to 2, motor jolts on with even higher torque. So as of now for some reason, adjusting Fslip min to get a smooth start has been unsuccessful.

No Fslipmin you calculate from your motor plate. It is a fixed setting since you also use fslipmin at rotor steary state... If you calculate this and is still jumpy you need to adjust boost and ampmin first.
Also try using Fmin setting of 0.1 for smoother power application


Power steering continues to turn on and off intermittently. Most times when not moving and a couple times when moving at low speeds.

There was one event where both the brake pump and power steering deactivated simultaneously while driving 5-10 MPH and the main contactor did not open, the motor was still able to turn but with compromised braking and no power steering. At stop, I power cycled the ignition key and power steering and brake activated normally.

You may want to check if there is any HV on your chassis!!! This may cause all sorts of problems with 12V and signals. Usually a broken water heater is showing HV to chassis through coolant mixture. if you disconnect it and have no more problems you know where touble is.

I’m not clear about how regen and derate may affect throttle travel. Most parameter adjustments regarding those are for the brake pedal.

Fweak is set to 140 rather than 158, adjustment to 150 is not much different or a little worse.

You show motor 300V no matter what the battery is since you set Udcnom at 300. It is a derating thing. What is the voltage of your battery? You may try to lower this to 280 or lower depends on what the motor is wired for. Can you get a photo of motor plate?

Dead time is at 180 rather than 58.

That is good safe setting for testing. You may change it later.

Parameters posted in link.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f02 ... sp=sharing
[/quote]
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by riii »

arber333 thanks for all your input. I will take all that into consideration in today's driving tests.
The following images are the nameplates of my Siemans Ford motor. My traction battery voltage range is 250V to 330V.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by Kevin Sharpe »

Please post the photos as attachments not via third party hosting sites. I'm trying to stop the forum from being unusable in the future if hosts start charging a fee :(
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by arber333 »

Kevin, isnt that Ford 1PV5133 motor the same as Siemens 1PV5135? Is there any larger difference?

The Ford Ranger EV (Electric Vehicle) was manufactured using the Siemens AC induction motor,
part number 1PV5133-4WS20 W11.

FORD SPECS:
Battery/Motor:
_Voltage: 312
_ Motor Type: 3 Phase AC
_ Horsepower: 90 hp
_ Torque (lb.ft/Nm @ rpm): 140
_ Power: 67 kW
_ RPM: 3500-9700

E Tischer specs
215 - 380 Volt, 282 Amp RMS (400 peak)
4 pole, 3 Phase AC Induction
67 Kw peak (33 Kw continuous)
3500 - 9700 (13,000 Max) RPM
Weight: 178 lbs

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_ ... cts_id=257

See the user manual and observe if motor has another plate which is rating plate where slip and frequencies are written.
Otherwise you truly need to guess the fslipmin parameter. I would recommend you try and set UDCnominal at 310V and set boost at 5000 or more.
Then set ampmin at 10 for testing. If it feels too much you can use smaller value.
Set fslipmin at 1Hz and try to drive off on level ground. Increase this by 0.5Hz until you can drive off steady.
You will probably feel throttle open like rubber cord and then car will jump. This means your ampmin is not enough. Increase is by 3 or 5 points and see if steady driveoff is possible.
If you raise ampmin too much car will jump agressively. Now you need to decrease this a bit and increase boost by 300 or 500 points.

When you are satisfied you need to go and try to run full throttle into a steep hill to determine fslipmax.

See my guide at the bottom of page here:
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Parameters
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by riii »

I spent some hours tuning on level ground yesterday. With boost at 5000 (or higher), ampmin at 20, and fslip at 1.3 the truck starts, stops and cruises at low speeds smoothly while feathering the throttle slowly. However, at that boost level if I press the throttle quickly from stop or at slow speeds the motor lurches violently and is a bit scary. So I have boost at 4100 for now and at that setting the motor flutters from stop, flutters during low speed cruising, and flutters pretty much any time while braking (but not as bad as when boost was at 3990 or lower) Which leads me to believe that Regen settings are still not entirely disabled and are interfering with both throttle and braking performance. I'm confused as to which min and max values in Regen and derate will disable Regen. Please see parameter screenshots and let me know if Regen is actually disabled. 😁

The truck is drivable at the moment. One odd phenomenon I've noticed is when freeway driving the truck can get to 55-60 MPH on a flat, and when I press the throttle to the max the speedometer will jump to 65-70, I can see 65kW (using Emus BMS Bluetooth on Android) coming out of the battery but observe no torque or extra acceleration faster than 60 MPH. Could this be a speed sensor issue? Thanks for all the input. Also I could not find any other name plate or documentation that suggests the proper slip frequencies unfortunately.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by arber333 »

I think lurching is due to motor seeing too much voltage at once. Your fweak setting is too sharp for the motor and it wants to get to weakening further along. Try first changing fweak to 160Hz. This will smooth motor somewhat.
Try also to lower UDCnominal to 300V or even 288V and observe what happens at 5000 boost. I still think boos should be high fo those motors.

Also fslipmin 1.3Hz is very sharp i think. Try increasing it towards 2.4Hz or even 3Hz with more boost and larger fweak.

At high speed frequency works untill weakening depleats torque. Do you use tramsnission? What is the max RPM value? If you use transmission i suggest you set fmax to 230Hz. At that speed you will see 7000rpm. That is plenty enough i think.

Also when you are satisfied with your takeoff you want to get to fslipmax and set it so you get good acceleration into a hill and motor pulls steady. When motor starts to shake under acceleration take off 0.2Hz and that would be your max slip.

A hint; if your max slip ends up more than 3x fminslip your minslip setting is probably wrong. This will show on highway when motor will gain heat or excessively consume power for running at steady speed.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

arber333 wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 8:40 pm I still think boost should be high fo those motors.
Isn't boost only to overcome start from 0 RPM, does it have any function after that?
arber333 wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 8:40 pm At high speed frequency works untill weakening depleats torque. Do you use tramsnission? What is the max RPM value? If you use transmission i suggest you set fmax to 230Hz. At that speed you will see 7000rpm. That is plenty enough i think.
Tested with OBD tester (Ford original NGS tester) give 11500RPM, 76mph (122.3kmt) so you will need to have fmax about 380Hz.
Motor has max 13000RPM, but is governed to max 120km/h.

Not sure how it's geared but I get 917 RPM at the wheel at max speed.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by arber333 »

joromy wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 9:28 pm Isn't boost only to overcome start from 0 RPM, does it have any function after that?

Tested with OBD tester (Ford original NGS tester) give 11500RPM, 76mph (122.3kmt) so you will need to have fmax about 380Hz.
Motor has max 13000RPM, but is governed to max 120km/h.
Not sure how it's geared but I get 917 RPM at the wheel at max speed.
Well if life were that simple. I found out that boost is needed only at start, BUT how smooth your start is performed depends largely on fslipmin and boost sizing. As well as finding correct fweak spot. Fslipmin could be calculated if you have dataplate. If not you have to try various settings.

If he has transmission i recvommend 230Hz, but if he has single speed gearbox i think 10000rpm would be good enough.
There is a graph for this motor and i see a knee is at 4000rpm which would be at 140Hz true. Hm maybe your motor really has such a sharp minimum slip...
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

There is not any specific information on the Ranger motor since it is a OEM.

But I got this from info from Eric Tischer (He has built inverter for the Ranger motor, with a industrial VFD)
http://etischer.com/awdev/

I guess with "base frequency" he mean fweak?

Quoting Eric:
I'm using 157hz as my base frequency which corresponds to 4594 rpm @ 230v. These numbers were derived from experimentation. Good luck, are you planning on doing slip control? Try getting the motor to spin in volts per hz mode first (no feedback or slip control). You may need some DC boost to get torque near zero speed since it needs current to magnetize the rotor.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by johu »

riii wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:34 pm On the previous test day Regen was causing BMS to shut down main contact while attempting to drive with full battery. For this test day Regen was disabled by setting Idcmin (maximum output current) from -5000 to 0.
It's more straight forward to set brkmax=brknompedal=0 to disable regen.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

Edit:
Not very relevant any more, use this: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=186&p=16373#p16373
Changed the pwmfrq back to 8.8kHz
riii wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:22 pm I spent some hours tuning on level ground yesterday. With boost at 5000 (or higher), ampmin at 20, and fslip at 1.3 the truck starts, stops and cruises at low speeds smoothly while feathering the throttle slowly. However, at that boost level if I press the throttle quickly from stop or at slow speeds the motor lurches violently and is a bit scary
Did some test today, with some unconventional settings, and I got the best/smoothest drive I had so far.
Wanted to test with 4.4kHz, because Eric Tischer told me motor is more controllable at lower PWM freq.
Edit: Did some more testing, and small adjustment.

boost 4000
fweak 157
udcnom 250V (my battery is nom:300V)
fslipmin 2
fslipmax 4
fmin 1
fmax 380
pwmfrq 4.4kHz
deadtime 195 (4uS)
throtramp 1
ampmin 13

brknompedal 0
brkmax 0

Rest of the setting are default or standard Ranger settings.
Just remember pwmpol ACTLOW on Ranger!!!!

Changed the pwmfrq back to 8.8kHz and got wery weak start, no torque.
Will probably be possible to get same behavior with 8.8kHz, but need change all settings again.
This is just a experiment, so it will probably be best to stick with 8.8kHz, since the original TIM is using 8kHz.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by riii »

The last set of parameters I tried based on Arber333's instructions were beginning to work fairly well before I had a precharge relay issue. I had boost at 7000, fweak at 210, fslipmin at 3, and flsipmax at 6.2. Freeway performance and uphill torque was noticeably better. I tried the last set of parameters Joromy suggested and those were working well until I stalled on a hill blocking traffic, perhaps because fweak was set too low. Now it looks like I have to focus on building a shop in my backyard to be able to drop the battery to inspect the contactor box so it may be a while until I can get back to inverter tuning on the road.
The jitters were mostly gone yet take off was still a bit of an abrupt start. Also, to prevent roll back on hills since people like to stop inches behind the back bumper at stop signs I set automation to 200 rpm's after break is released.
Udcnom 288V
Pwmfrq 8.8
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

riii wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 6:52 pm precharge relay issue.
I have been thinking about your precharge relay/resistor issue.
Have you done this:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=186&start=40#p6938

If not the IAA module could command the power steering and DC/DC to start and draw power before the HW aux relay has closed.
This will burn the precharge resistor after a while. (I burned mine this way)
This happens because the IAA module has almost immediate startup, much faster than the BMS!!

Now I start (ign. in) the IAA with the BMS relay output, and the IAA is closing the HV aux relay.

Have a look at the connections in Ranger_setup_new_8 - Schematic.pdf here:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=186#p1869

I have done mods internal in the IAA module, then I don't have to route new outside wires.
I use pin 26 as the "new" IAA enable, and cut the outside wire from ignition pin 97. Also cut the "cut trace 26" and put a wire from "42 aux relay control" back to the "26 aux relay status" (this is so the IAA knows that the aux relay has closed)
NB! you don't need the diode at pin 26.
HV_aux_relay_control.JPG
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

Looks like the Ford Ranger section in the Wiki is lost. :(
Will try to find my notes and tables, and put it in the first post in this tread again.

Had the updated pin table there, I hope I can find the latest one.

Sorry about this!
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by mdrobnak »

It was moved, but everything is there:
https://openinverter.org/wiki/OEM_Repurposing

-Matt
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

:) Nice.
There is no link anymore, not for the Tesla either.
Should I make that?
Don't want to change something if you already are on it.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by mdrobnak »

There is. On the main page it's under the 'use an existing power section' - that's a link. I made it clearer.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

Do your self a favor.
Next time you have the inverter out or before you mount it, do this:
Drill a small hole for a cable and connect to the board, this way you only need to open the bottom lid to get to the programming port, if update from wifi fails.
Put a corrugated sleeve on the cable for HV isolation, and a suitable grommet in the hole.

Programmer:
https://www.digikey.no/product-detail/e ... ND/2214535

programming_port.jpg
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

Error wrong post, did reply instead of edit :(
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by OEMEV »

I'm interested in one inverter board (for now) and would like to buy. From your Sep of 2019 post, do you have any update on the first 5 boards? Please let us know how well it did. Also, from the purchase page, it appears to be a completed board. I'm sure there will be DTCs and the wrench light will be on. It would be helpful to know what to expect, such as vehicle drivability issues (if any) once the TIM board is replaced. I see the 2 schematic diagrams and connection table, do you have other support documents?
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

Hi and welcome! Very happy to have another Ranger owner here, regardless if you buy a TIM board or not.

The only change from first version board is chassis GND is moved to a more suitable place. (the internal connector was in the way, on the first ver.)
The board is complete, but you need to reuse the connectors. But this is far from a plug and play solution!

All documentation is here in the Ranger tread. But if there is something you think I should include, please let me know.
There was a Wiki page, but it's removed/moved several times, so will try to keep docs/info in the first post.

What kind of battery BMS are you thinking to use?
If you choose Simp BMS and tesla batteri, then it will be easier for me to support you, because I have the same setup myself.
The instrument cluster, is a different story, you can do it the "easy" way only connect BMS fault output to instument lamp.
Or the complicated way:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=433

The Ranger guys that have rebuild their inverter (TIM) are a small group, compared to Tesla and Leaf inverter.
Remember the board is based on the openinverter, so the functionality is the same.
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by johu »

The original pages are still there, they are now listed here: https://openinverter.org/wiki/OEM_Repurposing
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by joromy »

It's just no link to it when you go to the wiki.
So you have to know the exact address :?
I could fix it, but I don't want to mess up the ongoing cleanup/reorganizing.
I also accept that the Ford Ranger openinverter is not the most popular thing here ;)
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Re: Ford Ranger Inverter board Support Thread

Post by mdrobnak »

joromy wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:51 pm It's just no link to it when you go to the wiki.
So you have to know the exact address :?
I could fix it, but I don't want to mess up the ongoing cleanup/reorganizing.
I also accept that the Ford Ranger openinverter is not the most popular thing here ;)
I think the person that put "all control boards" meant to link that to OEM_Repurposing..so I just did that. Definitely not trying to make this disappear. ;)

-Matt
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