openinverter forum

I'm not sure but i think you need to send kl15 on; it's a gateway message. So the board in the unit switches on the power supply of it.
Not sure if the message is in the logs from Damien you might try with them...

KL15 was mentioned here.

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:35 pm Some progress. Seems 0x3c0 byte2 bit 1 is KL15 via can :
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So we just told it the ignition is on and it wakes and starts sending us messages. Now problem is I'm not firing off the counter and checksum so it don't like me.

Unfortunately Jack (Damien Maguire) has decided to leave the forum.

Put message on the bus like in the logs: 0x3CO.

Then the boards wakes up and starts transmitting the others.

Thanks folks, just wanted to confirm the can bus speed should be 500kbit?

Im looking to get one of these working too, got here via search I knew I could rely on people here to be on it already, I should have checked here first.

If we cant get a CAN log maybe we could do a group buy of one of those tester machines to see what its spitting out?

I did end up buying two from eBay vendor in NJ, both had blown fets, seen here:

here's what each fet should look like. I was able to find a similar package mosfet to swap in if I can figure out how to remove the damaged silicon


It seems that 'the bottom' leg of the inverter is the one that dies, there's some similar indication from a snippet of an auto repair tictok screencap

are you going to grind away the what's left and install on top? I was thinking you could possibly make a breakout box with a heatsink, I hope the gate drivers didn't blow at the same time.

I have ben asking around to see if anyone will share CAN data but have had no luck so far, maybe i should start offering money to see if that would help.

hi all take a look at " MLBevo_Gen2_MLBevo_HCAN_KMatrix_V8.18.01F_20190718_SE "

from viewtopic.php?p=52273#p52273

looks to have can frames from the mild hybrid

Last year I was pondering whether one of these starter-generator systems could be fitted to my Subaru diesel.

Nothing too sophisticated, just delivering power, regenerate or freewheel depending on throttle position and rpm.

Compared to a full EV conversion it would be relatively cheap.

The electronics are outside my skills.

Scubascooby wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 9:22 am Last year I was pondering whether one of these starter-generator systems could be fitted to my Subaru diesel.

Nothing too sophisticated, just delivering power, regenerate or freewheel depending on throttle position and rpm.

Compared to a full EV conversion it would be relatively cheap.

The electronics are outside my skills.

This is actually the reason I've been following the work on few of these belted starter generator units as well - I want to strap them to various engines and play around with developing a (crude) hybrid control strategy. For example, what would a high-revving torqueless wonder like a 90's twin cam vtec honda feel like with electric assist below 5000rpm? Or maybe using torque fill to get some of the low rpm/low load responsiveness back into my 05 Legacy GT that I fitted with a larger turbo.

Even if the belted starter/generator units don't actually have enough grunt to do what I want, they'll still be a good proof of concept that can be applied to a larger assist motor.

Semi-related, I also really want to play with one of the electrically assisted turbos Mercedes is using on the C43 AMG.

Well, I wouldn't expect too much in the low end.
I guess we don't have any torque numbers or graphs, but I am assuming it will be better in higher rpm.

Can't you easily add the Honda hybrid motor to the Civic? I think from the CRZ?

And yes, the electric superchargers would be nice.
You could also buy a TorqAmp kit together with your own battery.

Swing wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:23 pm Well, I wouldn't expect too much in the low end.
I guess we don't have any torque numbers or graphs, but I am assuming it will be better in higher rpm.

Can't you easily add the Honda hybrid motor to the Civic? I think from the CRZ?

And yes, the electric superchargers would be nice.
You could also buy a TorqAmp kit together with your own battery.

Most of these hybrid starter alternator units seem to be intended to make engine stop/start systems less miserable to live with, so if anything I'd assume they have pretty good torque at low rpm and fall off pretty quickly above that. Most of the published numbers suggest 40-60Nm (30-45 ft-lb), with power peaks in the 12-15kW range (call it 15-20hp). If it really can make 15hp in the constant power region, that's still ~26 ft-lb at 3000rpm, ~19.5 ft-lb at 4000rpm, and ~15.75 ft-lb at 5000rpm if you had the thing geared 1:1 with the engine rather than the ~2.5:1 ratio that's much more likely in their original application.

As far as the Honda stuff, the IMA motors are intended to sit between the engine and transmission so I'd have to modify it to mate up with the bellhousing pattern and crank snout of the F/H series engines that accords and preludes run - the Civic hybrid and CR-Z use the L-series engine like what you would find in a Honda Fit. Annoyingly they're basically all different. This would also require modifying engine and/or transmission mounts. Most likely I would start with the IMA unit from an Accord V6 hybrid if I went that route. Better outcome, but significantly more fabrication work vs a bracket to hang a different alternator off the side of the engine.

When you're talking about a low compression turbo motor that feels lazy and probably only makes all of 125ft-lb of torque when it isn't in boost, you would absolutely notice another 15-20lbft in normal driving. The F20B I'm putting in my accord only makes like 120ft-lb of torque below 5000rpm.

The Mercedes electric turbo can act as an electric supercharger, but because the motor/generator is on the shaft between the turbine and compressor wheel you can use regen to control shaft speed/boost while putting power back into your battery.

Hello
I have two 48v hybrid audi a8 can-bus google sheet dokuments where
filter is active, you can select different IDs. Top left(1A) is filter sign.
IDs are in HEX and rest is in DEC
Seems like can message from engine ECU with ID 152 is the main starter-alternator driver.

Hello
My setup for reading 48v starter-alternator CAN BUS messages without the car looks like this: 48V Power supply is not needed if you only want to read CAN BUS signals coming from starter alternator.
GND connection from terminal 31 to 41 or alternator body is needed.
Arduino code: (I only know basic stuff about coding so most of the code copied)

There should be boatloads of these with the blown power section. I can't seem to find any currently though, odd. I wonder if there's a huge core price being offered currently?

It's hard to predict what the market will do with new and problematic parts. If they can be found in large quantities with blown power sections a "drop in" power board would be worth considering. There are these ganFets that could work well size and power wise, https://epc-co.com/epc/Portals/0/epc/do ... asheet.pdf (also a 200v version of these) but they require a special / low voltage gate driver. There's also the mechanical mods required to connect a custom driver board to the motor and fitting a new controller. Those don't seem like they would be too bad.

The 63v capacitor voltage is surprisingly low for a 48v system. There was a note about them running at / below 40v in motor mode. That's an odd thing (bad design "fix") to have to accomplish with a 48v battery to save some component costs. Might need a capacitor replacement mod as well for these to survive long term. I wonder if they used 60v fets too..

Getting these away from ICE engine coolant temps would help in a lot of ways.


https://icanhack.nl/blog/vw-part1/ has a bunch of info on getting deep into firmware and hacking a VW electric power steering. Someone who can do this level of electrical reverse engineering (not me) likely would find some of the info there helpful.

The firmware likely needs to be checked / updated in the starter alternator to avoid blowing the power section if one is found in working order to try to keep the magic smoke in.

There are internet rumors that even with updated firmware these units can still be problematic. Searching Audi / VW forums for info on these is painful.

I bought two starter alternators one Valeo from a Kia and a Ford one
I took a few logs of what they spit out. Do these look like CRC checks to anyone?

im looking to get savvycan working with a due so i have something automated to check ID's as my current dongle is limited to manual inputs.

I also found on AliExpress various different starter alternator and DC-DC and battery testers like this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005361788537.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005255246352.html
the benz ones are the same type used by ford and there are alot of those kicking about, hopefully they would share the same message structure.

Hello.
CAN logs without the starter alternator connected to the car are useless and even CAN logs from car are useless without description what was done at the time logging.
With Audi Belt Starter Generator (BSG) I have some experience. Audi BSG sends out some data like rpm, temp, voltage and that's it. Mimicking engine ECU signals does not help to get BSG to rotate. First engine start is always made with 12v starter, then BSG checks if everything is ok and then it starts engine if needed.
There probably is a diagnostic tool function to activate BSG on the table and this is how the Chinese made tools are driving BSG, this diagnostic tool function is not present in ordinary ODIS -vag diagnostic tool.
The whole project is very coding heavy. A lot of code needs to be written in order to make this BSG useful.
I have had fun written some code and learned a lot. My current setup is based on Arduino Uno R4 WiFi. Currently
I m working on basic diagnostic functions like reading identification, coding, measured values, fault memory. It all takes time to learn, but I'm having fun.

So a typical reflash / OI solution is needed then...

I think it will be simpler than that and with a CAN log you should be able to find either a positive or negative torque request, along with all the diagnostic data like voltage and temperature, you can see the voltage in Byte 7 on the data I sent. the Ford one has dedicated can bus of its own and im not sure they implement a CRC like the Audi ones.

If i had one of these Audi ones i would grab one of these testers off AliExpress and make a log, with some experimentation im pretty sure that's all you would need to get one up and running with a program of your own.

I have now setup savvycan on a due and have been looking what the two BISG that i have are sending.
They both seem to implement a counter i think the valeo one has the counter in the last byte
Is it normal for any reply that is sent to include this counter in the message?
can i setup savvy can to reply on a sequential ID including this counter in one of the bytes?

It's posible to set the trigger as a particular id e.g. id0x102 10ms, trigger is id 0x102 with 10ms delay. To do a counter then use the "Modifications" tab,
e.g. D7=D7+1&0xf will count from 0 - 0xf on data byte 7.

Further info here https://www.savvycan.com/docs/customsender.html

I need to send the data byte that I'm receiving in for example ID 130 data bye 7 back in data byte 7 of the reply ID, Does that make sense?

In the modifications tab of the reply id you need, D7=id:0x130:D7. I haven't tested this but I think it's correct.

This will be very useful, Its a log from an audi test platform, it has the messages for positive and negative torque and an off state, i.e. motoring generating and idle.
does anyone have a working unit we could play this back to? it will need modification probably to work if it has a CRC or similar check.

Its in TRC format.