openinverter forum

HI GUYS today I WAS TRYING TO ORDER GS450H VCU.V3 FROM JLC PCB WITH SMT Assembly
BUT THE PAGES ASKES ME TO Fill in layer sequence THAT I DONT KNOW
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME WITH THIS
THE PAGE ASKES ME for ALL 4 layers sequences
L1(Top layer)
L2(Inner layer1)
L3(Inner layer2)
L4(Bottom layer)

thanks

Why are you trying to have it built by JLCPCB? You can order it built from Damien.

I am on a tight budget to be honest i want to do some experiment with these boards and i might need more then 1 to do so

damion is kind enough to make it opensorced and i am a fan of hem and what he hes been doing
Thanks

Amoor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:56 pm I am on a tight budget to be honest i want to do some experiment with these boards and i might need more then 1 to do so

damion is kind enough to make it opensorced and i am a fan of hem and what he hes been doing
Thanks

****edit***

Lol v3 vcu. That’s in active development. It’s not a production design...

***


This is a hard game to play.

damien (+others) have sunk enormous time and risk into developing these projects. Everything is open, but setup in a way for some what stable economic way of keeping development going.

giving step by step on how to by pass that is a hard thing I think for many of us todo in this case.

That being said:

Have you checked if the gerber files are complete? Design files should just load into jlc and be viewable in their gerber viewer. Along with the bom and placement files


****edit***

Lol v3 vcu. That’s in active development. It’s not a production design...

I think if you are serious about this you will have to spend time studying the whole process, nobody is going to do it for you.
A year or two of hard work should be enough.
From your other posts it sounds like you know a lot less than I do and I wouldn't know where to start but I suspect getting JLC to build it for you is the easy bit.

Bratitude wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:15 am

Amoor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:56 pm I am on a tight budget to be honest i want to do some experiment with these boards and i might need more then 1 to do so

damion is kind enough to make it opensorced and i am a fan of hem and what he hes been doing
Thanks

****edit***

Lol v3 vcu. That’s in active development. It’s not a production design...

***


This is a hard game to play.

damien (+others) have sunk enormous time and risk into developing these projects. Everything is open, but setup in a way for some what stable economic way of keeping development going.

giving step by step on how to by pass that is a hard thing I think for many of us todo in this case.

That being said:

Have you checked if the gerber files are complete? Design files should just load into jlc and be viewable in their gerber viewer. Along with the bom and placement files


****edit***

Lol v3 vcu. That’s in active development. It’s not a production design...

Hmm thanks i know what i am doing i am a subscriber to damion since 2014
Or maybe longer then that when he was doing EV ZF automatic gearbox
And i have had some comments here also
I am not a new member
All those years i was learning from hem about converating gas to ev

after this i wathced damions video again and I realised that gs450 vcu.v3 is unfinished

Alibro wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:15 am I think if you are serious about this you will have to spend time studying the whole process, nobody is going to do it for you.
A year or two of hard work should be enough.
From your other posts it sounds like you know a lot less than I do and I wouldn't know where to start but I suspect getting JLC to build it for you is the easy bit.

I have joined here in 2019 and and at that time the gsvcu.v2 was ready and done and i put it in my jlc cart but i got bussy with life and things got messy
I decided to wait and when i came back i opend jlc and the order expired as it hasn't been submitted for a year
I redownloaded files and i didnt notice that the v3 is not done i thought this was the same version

I have a question
From what damion was saying its an update that can work on the older pcb design
So if i order the older version of the pcb with sam3 microcontroller i can update the software Later when its ready right?

Amoor wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:23 pm \
I have joined here in 2019 and and at that time the gsvcu.v2 was ready and done and i put it in my jlc cart but i got bussy with life and things got messy
I decided to wait and when i came back i opend jlc and the order expired as it hasn't been submitted for a year
I redownloaded files and i didnt notice that the v3 is not done i thought this was the same version

I have a question
From what damion was saying its an update that can work on the older pcb design
So if i order the older version of the pcb with sam3 microcontroller i can update the software Later when its ready right?

I think Damien (or someone else) is going to port the STM32 code back to the SAM3X, but of course that won't happen until the STM32 code is complete and tested. The SAM3 control board still makes sense for a lot of people, so I'd just go for it if I were you.
-Isaac

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:22 pm

Amoor wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:23 pm \
I have joined here in 2019 and and at that time the gsvcu.v2 was ready and done and i put it in my jlc cart but i got bussy with life and things got messy
I decided to wait and when i came back i opend jlc and the order expired as it hasn't been submitted for a year
I redownloaded files and i didnt notice that the v3 is not done i thought this was the same version

I have a question
From what damion was saying its an update that can work on the older pcb design
So if i order the older version of the pcb with sam3 microcontroller i can update the software Later when its ready right?

I think Damien (or someone else) is going to port the STM32 code back to the SAM3X, but of course that won't happen until the STM32 code is complete and tested. The SAM3 control board still makes sense for a lot of people, so I'd just go for it if I were you.
-Isaac

Thanks isaac for you advice i have some time to gather other components battery chargers bms's ect and when i am finished i think new version will be out

Thanks again for your advice and your time best regards
amoor

Thanks to everyone on this thread for the question and conversation!!
A few things:
1: Ordering from JLC or another vendor, not to mention the 5 or so places you'll have to hit up for connectors and out-of-stock components, is a reasonable part of validating this entire process is feasible and might want to be encouraged in my completely irrelevant opinion. I did it myself and now have extra boards to break and experiment with as a little bonus to myself. Call it lack of faith or low budget, doesn't matter, but I'll be contributing to Johannes and Damien via patreon sometime AFTER spinning my first motor. Taken purely as entertainment, I've already gotten quite a bit out of this, so I wouldn't mind contributing now. It's just a matter of personal preference, circumstance and priority. Comments like the very first one the OP got are the sort of thing that turn people away, which is not one of the stated goals of the project.

2: I figured out/inferred the what I hope is the "correct" stack-up (layer ordering) by doing some reading (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=124&p=2264&hilit=layer+order#p2264 and viewtopic.php?f=14&t=396&p=7347&hilit=layer#p7347 for example) of this forum and was foolish/lazy enough not to document it for myself and others since I haven't soldered and powered a board yet. Some of that reading implies you can't really get it wrong (as long as you put top at the top and bottom at the bottom,) but I ordered my boards with vcc as 2nd layer and ground as 3rd since that was the answer for the VCU board.

3: Step-by-step instructions are not something to be avoided to protect your borders or "test" who is worthy or intelligent enough to participate, which is the feeling those responses gave me. In my Megasquirting days, I was on the edges of a _truly_ encouraging and vibrant community that saw these kinds of contributions as welcome and helpful, which was exciting and brought on even more users and contributors. I hope that this project has aspirations to be as helpful and beloved as that one was. Just based on his words, I get the impression Damien would appreciate the help and option to be as hands-off as B&G were. If you're putting in useful work, it doesn't matter what flavor it is.

Good luck to all of us...

Step-by-step instructions are not something to be avoided to protect your borders or "test" who is worthy or intelligent enough to participate, which is the feeling those responses gave me. In my Megasquirting days, I was on the edges of a _truly_ encouraging and vibrant community

It would be super vibrant if you wrote a guide: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Ordering_From_JLCPCB

The lack of a guide means nobody (including me) could be bothered to write one. Not that we* want to actively keep people from making their own boards.

Layer stackup is a bit of a challenge to me as well because I don't design 4-layer boards myself. I used to answer "Top - 5V - GND - Bottom" but last time they said "Sorry to say your answer is not clear, because the inner layer names are Tesla_V4B - Layer 2 (Powerplane) ... and Layer 3". I bailed out and said "do it like last time" which worked.

*we - who is "we"? Now you are we as well

angusmf wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm Thanks to everyone on this thread for the question and conversation!!
A few things:
1: Ordering from JLC or another vendor, not to mention the 5 or so places you'll have to hit up for connectors and out-of-stock components, is a reasonable part of validating this entire process is feasible and might want to be encouraged in my completely irrelevant opinion. I did it myself and now have extra boards to break and experiment with as a little bonus to myself. Call it lack of faith or low budget, doesn't matter, but I'll be contributing to Johannes and Damien via patreon sometime AFTER spinning my first motor. Taken purely as entertainment, I've already gotten quite a bit out of this, so I wouldn't mind contributing now. It's just a matter of personal preference, circumstance and priority. Comments like the very first one the OP got are the sort of thing that turn people away, which is not one of the stated goals of the project.

2: I figured out/inferred the what I hope is the "correct" stack-up (layer ordering) by doing some reading (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=124&p=2264&hilit=layer+order#p2264 and viewtopic.php?f=14&t=396&p=7347&hilit=layer#p7347 for example) of this forum and was foolish/lazy enough not to document it for myself and others since I haven't soldered and powered a board yet. Some of that reading implies you can't really get it wrong (as long as you put top at the top and bottom at the bottom,) but I ordered my boards with vcc as 2nd layer and ground as 3rd since that was the answer for the VCU board.

3: Step-by-step instructions are not something to be avoided to protect your borders or "test" who is worthy or intelligent enough to participate, which is the feeling those responses gave me. In my Megasquirting days, I was on the edges of a _truly_ encouraging and vibrant community that saw these kinds of contributions as welcome and helpful, which was exciting and brought on even more users and contributors. I hope that this project has aspirations to be as helpful and beloved as that one was. Just based on his words, I get the impression Damien would appreciate the help and option to be as hands-off as B&G were. If you're putting in useful work, it doesn't matter what flavor it is.

Good luck to all of us...

You're right of course and if my reply offended anyone then I apologise however for many of us (me included) it is still the correct answer. If saving money for the OP is the priority then it would likely end up cheaper buying a working tested kit from Damien. At least that way when things don't go to plan (which lets face it is almost guaranteed) at least one part of the puzzle is known to be OK.

Having said all that It would be very interesting to follow the process of ordering these boards as we all have to start somewhere.

johu wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:50 pm

Step-by-step instructions are not something to be avoided to protect your borders or "test" who is worthy or intelligent enough to participate, which is the feeling those responses gave me. In my Megasquirting days, I was on the edges of a _truly_ encouraging and vibrant community

It would be super vibrant if you wrote a guide: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Ordering_From_JLCPCB

The lack of a guide means nobody (including me) could be bothered to write one. Not that we* want to actively keep people from making their own boards.

I do understand that and am in no way critical of the state of the project or docs or think that anyone really consciously wants to be discouraging--just wary of comments or tone that could discourage ppl from those sorts of contributions or questions. Perception counts for at least as much as reality.

Thanks for the additional feedback about the stack-up stuff. Also, challenge accepted! Will be thrilled to take at least a first pass at that blank doc after I've had some verifiable success with my boards.

Thank you (we) for this amazing project!

---- edit-----
Might as well capture this now:
On the JLC order page, there is a (maybe normally collapsed) section for specifying the stack-up. I was unable to get them to complete my order by replying to the email, but re-submitting with that section filled out as desired got me thru the process with no emails from them at all.

angusmf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:41 am On the JLC order page, there is a (maybe normally collapsed) section for specifying the stack-up. I was unable to get them to complete my order by replying to the email, but re-submitting with that section filled out as desired got me thru the process with no emails from them at all.

Thats a good one! Wonder if it's always been there or they recently added it.
Looking forward to the instructions.

I'm not the one putting in any work, so, my opinion shouldn't matter for much.

That said, my opinion is a mixed bag.

On one hand, the community has only a few leaders who are really pushing projects from nothing, into something. They do this for free, (or minimal donations), in their spare time, to some not-moderate amount of stress, often at a loss. It would be nice if you'd just buy their products. It doesn't require them to do any extra work, and it puts some change back into their pockets, which encourages further work.

On the other hand, to 98%, both Damien and Johannes share what they do. Only a minor paywall delay for some things. They want people to copy their designs, to build on them, etc. That's what them supporting the open source movement means. Ideally, they didn't start from scratch, they had the opportunity to build on knowledge before them, and, after their efforts, other can continue to build. But realistically, they did mostly start from scratch, and, the only efforts that happen after them are usually from professionals who keep all future improvements as proprietary secrets on the products they sell.

I'd say certainly, if you're making money off open source efforts, you're morally obligated to pay a tithe.

I do like the idea of contributing after you've taken their efforts to a finished project. I also like that that encourages everyone to carry documentation through to completion. How many people would do that, after they've already gotten all the benefit? Maybe not enough.

The thing about asking for help to use JLPCB to save money instead of paying for a product from its creators is... those efforts are taking away from them doing future projects. And, you already have a working option... just buy one.

I mean... suppose this happens...

Suppose I pester for advice on how to use JLPCB to duplicate Damien or Johannes' designs. Then when I do, I decide, aha, I can make these for less than they are selling them for, I'll start selling them too! Open source? Yep? Allowed? Yep. Undercuts Damien or Johannes' efforts and is a bit of a slap in the face having them teach you how to compete with what minimal monetary return they used to get? Yeah.

Where is the like button? .. @MattsAwesomeStuff

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:36 am I'm not the one putting in any work, so, my opinion shouldn't matter for much.

That said, my opinion is a mixed bag.

On one hand, the community has only a few leaders who are really pushing projects from nothing, into something. They do this for free, (or minimal donations), in their spare time, to some not-moderate amount of stress, often at a loss. It would be nice if you'd just buy their products. It doesn't require them to do any extra work, and it puts some change back into their pockets, which encourages further work.

On the other hand, to 98%, both Damien and Johannes share what they do. Only a minor paywall delay for some things. They want people to copy their designs, to build on them, etc. That's what them supporting the open source movement means. Ideally, they didn't start from scratch, they had the opportunity to build on knowledge before them, and, after their efforts, other can continue to build. But realistically, they did mostly start from scratch, and, the only efforts that happen after them are usually from professionals who keep all future improvements as proprietary secrets on the products they sell.

I'd say certainly, if you're making money off open source efforts, you're morally obligated to pay a tithe.

I do like the idea of contributing after you've taken their efforts to a finished project. I also like that that encourages everyone to carry documentation through to completion. How many people would do that, after they've already gotten all the benefit? Maybe not enough.

The thing about asking for help to use JLPCB to save money instead of paying for a product from its creators is... those efforts are taking away from them doing future projects. And, you already have a working option... just buy one.

I mean... suppose this happens...

Suppose I pester for advice on how to use JLPCB to duplicate Damien or Johannes' designs. Then when I do, I decide, aha, I can make these for less than they are selling them for, I'll start selling them too! Open source? Yep? Allowed? Yep. Undercuts Damien or Johannes' efforts and is a bit of a slap in the face having them teach you how to compete with what minimal monetary return they used to get? Yeah.

Matt, thank you for putting that all clearly into words. I think you're expressing what some of the posters above were feeling/getting-at, but without implying that everyone who builds their own stuff is a scroungy scammer. Should be talked out. I'll start by saying that, not least because of the kind and content of some responses I've already seen on the forum elsewhere, that stuff has all occurred to me. Perhaps the OP also. But to further summarize the "conflict":

1) Damien and Johannes, as the only obvious-from-first-glance leaders, seem overworked and maybe sometimes frustrated by the amount of work. Giving them money might help and at the same time make us feel a little better about slowly killing them.

2) There's nothing (apparently) to stop someone with the design files for one of the working designs attempting to build and sell the work while giving nothing back to anyone.

To add a bit more, I've noticed some design files are there, some still require Patronage, some are probably not yet available at all. So it seems like we're playing the field a bit, seeing what works. I've also tracked down (and as of last night, the GF soldered) all the little missing bits and pieces to build a complete board. It's annoying and time-consuming. If I was a betting man and someone asked me to put it all on whether or not these guys really want to be spending their time putting kits together and mailing, even at 350-400 euros a pop, I'd bet NOT without hesitation. Even if it paid the bills...yuck.

Might've happened when I wasn't looking, but I've never seen/heard either of them express any dismay over losing that "income." To put it another way, in the absence of anyone saying "you must/should buy from the webshop", we (as I said, I had these same pangs) are ascribing these thoughts to them, or "putting words in their mouths." I reckon the projects are structured the way they are because, smart as they are, the guys don't actually know what's the best way to keep their projects alive so the options are somewhat open. Damien is pretty clear that documenting builds and asking questions count when folks ask how they can contribute. It's not up to anyone here to further protect him from his own good nature.

So...I completely agree that anyone profiting on the project owes some of that back to the fellas. If that's all it takes to get them out of the manufacturing and shipping businesses, I bet they'd jump at it. But I'm putting my own thoughts and words into their mouths now. Referring back to Megasquirt again, third party designs, software, tools and shops made MS into something pretty huge that helped and educated a lot of people. But maybe it also destroyed the project...? I didn't stick around forever...

I have extra boards, and if someone local to me sees some cool electric conversion I complete and wants their own, I hope I can just give or sell them a board, thus suckering them in to our world! Right? Is that not what we want? If that became my or anyone else's business, we would absolutely zero (negative, in fact) incentive to cut J&D out. But if I did and they wanted to stop me, all it takes for them to shut off my source of income is further restrict support and new designs/revisions.

Now add all that to the fact that Johannes has specifically commanded that I write up some "How to JLC" doc, and I feel pretty good about what I'm doing. Folks, my opinion here, but ordering your own crap is how you move this project forward, not backward.

So I for one welcome people to make their own boards. Yes some design files will require a minimum one month, 10 Euro, Patreon contribution. I'll dump them up on Github once I've milked those crazy enough to support me for every cent I can get:) 98% of my work here is opensource. Yes selling kits helps my Lanzarote retirement fund and lets me buy cool new stuff to play with but the number one goal has and is to help YOU build YOUR car on YOUR budget. I've built 8 in the past 11 years. Enough for anyone......... The stuff not opensource is that way for a reason. Usually someone has helped me behind the scenes and wants it to stay off the radar for a while.

Now one problem that I face is that quite a few people seem to think I am their ticket to a free/easy/cheap/no work conversion. Sorry, not the case. I answer as many questions as I can and in fact the more someone annoys me asking the same thing over multiple platform the LESS likely I am to assist. Yeah, I am that a$$hole.

JLC are a great resource for us here. A guide on how to use them would be great.

Will do a screen recording of the process of ordering an assembled board from JLC and upload if that'll be useful. Starting from downloading the files from Damiens/Johannes GitHub and uploading etc.

Also JLC have a great circuit/board designer that makes ordering from them super simple. https://easyeda.com/editor, you can either order assembled with a few clicks or order the boards from JLC and the components from LCSC. Also checkout https://oshwlab.com/ as a side note.

rstevens81 and myself have used it to design a 4 can board for a teensy 3.6 for simpbms (will open source once we've corrected the error, as seen in the assembled board and done some more testing)

Brilliant!

Nice Bigpie!

Great to have so many people doing documentation here.

Bigpie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:43 pm Will do a screen recording of the process of ordering an assembled board from JLC and upload if that'll be useful. Starting from downloading the files from Damiens/Johannes GitHub and uploading etc.

I learned how to JLC from Stuart Pittaway's YouTube video on DIYBMS, which would be the basis of the docs I'll write up. Suggestion based on that and Damien's attempts to avoid the aforementioned crush of repeated questions by making videos: Whatever length the videos are (love you Damien, you crack me and the GF up), keep the topic focused and short, do many videos. Trying to pack it all into one means you have to edit, reshoot, re-upload and re-release every time the info changes.
As someone that has tried the YouTube--it's about as much fun as assembling your own JLC stuff. Not much. So I'll still do a wiki write up as a companion with links and include whatever information I can glean from your video(s), add clarification or corrections, and so on. Hopefully someone will get excited to maintain it, cause I know from experience I'll drop the ball sooner than later.

Hey, another philosophy threat.... er thread
Like they say on airplanes: first put your own mask on, then help others. When choked you're no help to anyone.
Well, it's not quite that serious, but that simple: if I can get my income (=pay bills, save some retirement money) from openinverter sales and support alone, I can dedicate myself fully to that. If I cannot, I am forced to go hunt for money elsewhere and can therefor dedicate less time to openinverter.
Of course it's not money alone, if somehow "the project" drives me into burnout thats no good either.

Good news is that I currently am getting enough revenue from sales, Patreon and occasional support requests. I am inclined to think it would be beneficial to everyone when it stays that way. And I'm not burned out (yet)

Interesting, I am just yesterday & today getting deeper into JLCPCB and KiCAD and was wondering if others might be discussing this here somewhere.

KiCAD, gerbv is the preferred stack, right?

My understanding:

Designing your own board:
1) make a schematic *
2) assign footprints
3) draw traces in the PCB viewer, marvel at it in 3D
4) export gerber files, BOM and placement file
5) make sure JSCS numbers match up what JLCPCB expects **
6) upload to JLCPCB, pay them, they even double check your placement!
7) once you get your PCB, flash the microcontroller with the correct firmware(if any) using an STLink Adapter
8) ???
9) drive an electric car

Using a premade board:
start at step 5/6.
But even then, understanding steps 1 to 4 will help a lot in making sure the rest makes sense.

* = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zESNgh9TAQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3rDhJqMu0
** = https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/84-h ... from-kicad

Welp, I deserve this, so please flame away--my feet are cold anyway. Under 12V, our board's power LED lights up briefly, then settles to a dim glow. Checked the various DC rails and none are remotely correct except the 26V. Strongly suspect that the part I ordered as a MP2359DJ-LF-Z while they were out of stock everywhere reputable simply is not the right part. So there you go...more evidence that nobody should ever try anything, but especially not ordering from JLCPCB.