openinverter forum

johu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:24 pm at that build quality who is even going to notice you cut the floor out Hats off.

This is a public forum and it's naive to think that everyone has our best interests at heart. Several people (including you?) have posted about disgruntled customers and it's a small step for them to start making trouble by complaining to the authorities. I'd advise everyone to be cautious in this area and under no circumstances should Open Inverter be endorsing anything that is illegal**

I have personal experience in this area; we had a vendetta against a UK charity that I ran that cost us thousands of pounds and hundreds of man hours to defend when a baseless complaint was made, and I've also won a case in the US using evidence posted by a third party on a website.

**I'm making a general point here, I have no detailed understanding of the laws in Sweden regarding vehicle modification.

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:02 am Once done properly vehicle modifications be they for ev conversion or otherwise are perfectly legitimate.

That's the point we are all trying to make and some of the glib comments here are undermining that IMO.

It's important to remember that many people joined Open Inverter because of the failure of DIY Electric Car to protect the years of effort we had invested in posts on that platform. We do not want to see Open Inverter suffer the same fate but as you and Johannes are aware from my US attorneys advice it is, in their opinion, extremely vulnerable today.

You may have noticed that we post as a Limited Liability Company and avoid many topics. This is the result of advice from our EU Lawyer. Make of that what you will.

New Electric Ireland wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:35 pm

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:02 am Once done properly vehicle modifications be they for ev conversion or otherwise are perfectly legitimate.

That's the point we are all trying to make and some of the glib comments here are undermining that IMO.

How's that then? You're intimating that the modifications done by the OP aren't 'legitimate'. They may well be legitimate in his location or the car may be intended for off road use, so what's the issue in appreciating his work and the interesting content?

I don't see any glib comments. Folk expressing interest in the OP's build and thanking him for sharing seems reasonable, no?

Boxster EV wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:09 pm I don't see any glib comments.

johu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:24 pm at that build quality who is even going to notice you cut the floor out

How do you think a Judge would interpret the comment from Johannes who is legally "Open Inverter"?

Boxster EV wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:09 pm Folk expressing interest in the OP's build and thanking him for sharing seems reasonable, no?

The issue is the liability that people face when posting on this public forum without adequate legal protection. This has been raised with Johannes and Damien in the past following the advice that we paid for from our US attorney (and was later reiterated by our Irish Lawyer) at their request. Several threads briefly touch on this issue if you want some history.

When someone burns down their house with an Open Inverter BMS or crashes a car with an Open Inverter VCU then questions will be asked by the authorities. Anyone who modifies cars for a living understands this and carries appropriate insurance and audit trails that are deigned to protect them. When we run courses we apply the same principals.

In the UK where you are based electric car converters have been flouting the rules which is why you now have a clamp down. Open Inverter is a soft target for anyone with a grievance including disgruntled customers which both Johannes and Damien have posted about.

In Ireland we have a formalised process that includes an inspection and report by a registered automotive engineer. I've no idea about the process in Sweden but it's clear the OP is new to this as well;

fredd90 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:06 pm In sweden we have an organisation that will help with the build, its called Sfro, I have bought their handbook with guidelines and information on how to proceed the build.

We actively support Open Inverter with donations of cash, parts, and PR. We want to see it survive into the long term and that requires a more professional attitude to issues like liability. This is an issue for the Open Inverter community not just the founders because I doubt many people on this forum understand how little legal protection they have today.

Edit: In brief here's the advice we received from our US attorney which IMO is perfectly reasonable;

(1) get a Lawyer in the EU (preferably Germany)
(2) turn "Open Inverter" into a Limited Liability Company
(3) publish forum/wiki T&C's that meet local legal requirements
(4) publish forum/wiki disclaimer that is highly visible and meets local legal requirements
(5) moderate forum/wiki content that does not meet published guidelines
(6) review product liability, T&C, and disclaimers

What's going on here?!?!?

Do i read it correct that you give a private advice publicly?
Why?

A judge doesn't care if you ask a question?

[DISCLAIMER]:
allegedly, while speculating, my opinion which could be wrong, flawed, maybe i was drunk.. etc.. etc..

EV_Builder wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:22 am Do i read it correct that you give a private advice publicly?

No, the advice that NEI paid for has been discussed in other threads on the subject. I included a summary in this thread for new members in the hope that the community would start taking the issue of liability seriously.

EV_Builder wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:22 am [DISCLAIMER]:
allegedly, while speculating, my opinion which could be wrong, flawed, maybe i was drunk.. etc.. etc..

Are you three years old? Do you think the opinion of two legal professionals and the concerns raised by forum members are irrelevant?

Cookie6000 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:40 pm On the other concerns raised here, it is one thing that has been in the back of my mind with the details and content I have put up and if anyone was to take them as a 'how-to' guide and then blow their garage up... would it come back to bite me in the arse?

celeron55 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:49 pm Which country allows a modification like this? Around here this would be considered basically making a new car and you'd have to either get special permission (you won't unless you're the military or something) or go through all the hoops that car manufacturers do with crash testing and all.

EV_Builder wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:20 pm Regarding The Netherlands you will loose the type certification and will need to apply for complete new certification for one vehicle.
(Single Vehicle Approval). This means that there are no crash tests but it does mean all the rest.

arber333 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:47 pm Well i saw at TUV Sud they immediately observed i cut the trunk out and welded a box in the back. First question was if i also cut any structural elements. I asked them what they mean by that since the cars today are semi monocoque anyway. But he just said if i cut any tubular consoles. I actually only put box between both main tubes in the car and i stated this in the report. So i was OK.

New Electric Ireland wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:25 am Are you three years old? Do you think the opinion of two legal professionals and the concerns raised by forum members are irrelevant?

Age is irrelevant and as far I saw only YOU, a commercial interested party, are raising concerns in for me a to blunt way.

For sake of this being public i leave it at this. But i don't agree with HOW you approached it.

IMHO we, the community should focus, more, on the safety side of the designs and open a forum section for it instead of trying to cover our asses.
We should make sure that good safety practices are easy accessible by the community and that safety is our nr.1 product priority.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to start with a "build safety" section?

Because in the end every big case you don't need to fight, because of proper/better safety design or what ever, is a case won!

And if you ask me we don't want to have cases, not only our asses covered. Because when enough chit hits the fan that never holds.