BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Development and discussion of fast charging systems eg Chademo , CCS etc
remy_martian
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by remy_martian »

This is a fast DC charging thread and people are focused and pulling their hair out as a team in an effort to make that work.

You don't need a LIM - there's no support for AC right now and there may not be for a long time.

Test your AC charger with an EV. If you have R&D money to design and test a commercial AC charger, your boss can buy a used EV to test the prototype.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by mikeselectricstuff »

tomasvilda wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:15 pm Hello, to all, I'm new here, read all this topic from the beginning as a novel. That was fascinating. I'm working on the AC charging station and my goal is to test if charging station is working correctly after full assembly. Is there a way to make a minimal setup with this LIM and not use conductors and their controller? What would be minimal setup with LIM?
You only need a diode and a couple of resistors to test an AC EVSE
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by remy_martian »

I contacted my local BMW dealer earlier today about flashing a virgin...

...LIM, and was told the CAR needs to be brought in and more than just the LIM has to be reflashed.

So, that's a nonstarter.

Any ideas on how to get flash capability out to the great unwashed whose only recourse is a new LIM?

Video showing how to do it? Bitstream capture and hitting it with Arduino CAN? Flash service? Module resale on the store(s)? ....?
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by EV_Builder »

It all depends on time available, money and skills.

You need 2 out of 3 :)

Since this is the internet I prefer not to elaborate further on ideas. 8-)
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by remy_martian »

Sorry I'm late to the party guys, and fairly new to the site and its 'org Collective.

Looking at the LIM CCS Wiki reference circuit diagram, I think, given the DIY nature of the beast, that 100A or 125A fuses should be added in each power leg between the CCS connector and the charge station voltage sensor.

We're not going to make any CCS station friends if Homer J DIYer has a miswired CCS socket to battery pack connection with no circuit protection that takes the vehicle out of the equation.

Thoughts?
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Jack Bauer »

I already covered this. All that is required to program a LIM is a BDC and simulator and readily available bmw software tool. I have all this currently buried in cardboard boxes due to moving house. Once I get a chance and dig it out will give it a run. Or it would be great if someone else could do this...
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by alexbeatle »

bitterandreal wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:04 pm
muehlpower wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:42 pm your graphics are good and almost correct. You should also add the main contactors. Make the voltage inputs of the isa shunt between the main and DC contactors and the third voltage input directly to the battery. The main contactors must also be controlled including the pre-charge relay, e.g. from the VCU. On the charge port only the voltage is detected, no amps. On my LIM 1B-1 and 1B-2 are not connected (not populated on the LIM PCB) 1B-14 is in the LIM connectet to GND. 2B-6 is on US models (CCS-1) connected to PP (2B-2).
Thanks for the corrections. I changed the pinouts in the wiki.

Sure the main contactors need to be closed with a pre-charge first. Could be done by the VCU or by the BMS. Depending on the setup.
But does that matter for the LIM?
In which state is the LIM expecting the battery voltage on the zwischenkreis?
Is the timing when the main contactors are closed very critical?

All CCS setups I saw used the IVT to measure the voltage on both sides of the DC charging contactors. No additional voltage measurement was necessary.
As I understand the LIM has the voltage measuring board in the KLE and does expect both the battery and "zwischenkreis" voltage on the CAN bus. I changed the diagram.
Do you actually have the IVT on the battery side of the main contactors?
CCS setup LIM_2-01.png
Must the IVT-S shut be installed in the negative wire of the battery or can be installed in the positive wire just the same? I assume it wouldn't matter, just may need to invert the current value in the VCU!?. Would work better on the positive side in my battery box...
Just FYI. In the manual, they install it on the positive side.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by EV_Builder »

Just FYI. In the manual, they install it on the positive side.
Nope they don't. It's the negative lead connected to the negative tab of the sensor.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by alexbeatle »

EV_Builder wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:56 am
Just FYI. In the manual, they install it on the positive side.
Nope they don't. It's the negative lead connected to the negative tab of the sensor.
Oh. You're right...
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

In theory you can put it on the positive side, but what I've experienced is that it becomes next to impossible to get all the data signed correctly, at least well enough to make the CHAdeMO board happy. I'm going to be tearing down my junction box next week to move it to the negative side.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by chentron »

help needed to understand the hardware needed.
After reading here https://openinverter.org/wiki/BMW_I3_Fa ... LIM_Module
it is not clear to me if its needed the VCU-zombieverter .
also not clear to me if BMS is absolutely needed to communicate with LIM trough CAN
thanks
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by EV_Builder »

You need:

- LIM + HV signal board + 2 Non economized coils (15ohms);
- CCS2 socket with lock motor and lock switch;
- some master programmable VCU to hookup the LIM to the BMS and Feed the LIM with the charge settings.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

EV_Builder wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:24 am- some master programmable VCU to hookup the LIM to the BMS and Feed the LIM with the charge settings.
In terms of VCUs, are our choices limited to the two on Damien's site only?

I have in mind to add CCS to a OEM/production EV from years ago (RAV4 EV, 2nd Gen), and while it's a Toyota, the CAN language is mostly Tesla due to the mind-merge they did (the HV battery, BMS, drivetrain, DC-DC, and onboard charger are all Tesla bits, mostly identical or very similar to early Model S).

In this application, I don't need a lot of what the ZombieVerter offers (throttle inputs, inverter interfacing, etc.).

What would be a clean way to provide the BMW i3 LIM with CCS commands/control without the other bits? I'm thinking that an SBC with a dedicated CAN channel to talk to the Tesla bits would be sufficient? I'd have to port the ZombieVerter CCS code to the SBC, which I'd not look forward to; perhaps the clean route is to use the ZombieVerter and just leave much of it disconnected?
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by larsrengersen »

asavage wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:44 pm
EV_Builder wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:24 am- some master programmable VCU to hookup the LIM to the BMS and Feed the LIM with the charge settings.
In terms of VCUs, are our choices limited to the two on Damien's site only?

What would be a clean way to provide the BMW i3 LIM with CCS commands/control without the other bits?
Don't know what a SBC is, but I think the Zombiverter at the moment is the only available solution. Like EV_Builder says, you need "some master programmable VCU". In other words, there needs to be a "process controller" that talks to all the other bits.
I know quite a few that are being developed at the moment, but for now the Zombiverter is the only 'off the shelve' solution.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

Sorry, SBC = Single Board Computer, ie Arduino, RPi, BeagleBone, STM32 Nucleo-64, etc. A general-purpose processor + supporting hardware and interfaces.

The ZombieVerter is nice and flexible and general-purpose too (within its mission to deal only with EV subsystems) but is kind of overkill for what I have in mind.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

asavage wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:44 pm
In this application, I don't need a lot of what the ZombieVerter offers (throttle inputs, interverter interfacing, etc.).

What would be a clean way to provide the BMW i3 LIM with CCS commands/control without the other bits? I'm thinking that an SBC with a dedicated CAN channel to talk to the Tesla bits would be sufficient? I'd have to port the ZombieVerter CCS code to the SBC, which I'd not look forward to; perhaps the clean route is to use the ZombieVerter and just leave much of it disconnected?
Just because Zombieverter has the other capabilities doesn't mean you have to use them, you could use it just to control CCS and talk to the rest of the car.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by chentron »

I thank you for your try helping, but I still dont understand if I need a BMS and what would be the required
EV_Builder wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:24 am You need:

- LIM + HV signal board + 2 Non economized coils (15ohms);
- CCS2 socket with lock motor and lock switch;
- some master programmable VCU to hookup the LIM to the BMS and Feed the LIM with the charge settings.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by EV_Builder »

The LIM Just need values , where they come from is up to you. You integrate the LIM into your car.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

chentron wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 11:00 pm I thank you for your try helping, but I still dont understand if I need a BMS and what would be the required
It's hard to think of a scenario where you would be using CCS to charge a battery pack, and not need a BMS involved. The BMS monitors the cells' individual or collective voltages and temperature and "tells" the LIM to "tell" the DCFC to send more or less power. Without a BMS or something functionally like it, you risk damage to the cells.

HTH
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by chentron »

I know the convenience of BMS, in fact i will install a BMS.
But the question is if the BMS need to communicate with the LIM. I would like install a basic BMS, not a thousand euros model
In the section "CAN communication" of the LIM wiki are listed all the messages sent by VCU, and it does not look that BMS is needed if VCU can make same function.
Because there is not an easy howto for zombieverter and newbies like me, is the reason i am asking things that can be obviuos in this high level thread.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by larsrengersen »

Well, in the end it does not really matter which device or system actually communicates the relevant data to the LIM. So as long as your BMS can dynamically provide data like cell over voltage errors, over temp errors, max DC charge current and car in charge enable to a VCU which passes that on to the LIM to ensure safe fast charging that is OK too.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by raine »

Hi. I have tried to read all the 670 posts in this thread, but could not find the i3 CCS port locking actuator pinout. I see the schematic in the wiki and that is clear. Obviously feedback/gnd may be measured, but the polarity of the locking motor is unclear. If someone has this sorted already, this detail is appreciated.

Many thanks!
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

raine wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:30 pm i3 CCS port locking actuator pinout.
did you manage to locking actuator wired properly? ;)
Could you please provide the pinout information and connection information to the LIM, this can then be added to the Wiki.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by raine »

did you manage to locking actuator wired properly? ;)
Yes, after first some wrong ones, the correct diagram was found.

The wiring diagram is like this:
i3 ccs port wiring.jpeg
I may try to update the wiki, if I learn how to do it.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

Really good work, raine!
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