BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Development and discussion of fast charging systems eg Chademo , CCS etc
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

Eltis wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:43 am Hello. Who can sell me a charge inlet voltage sense board? The contacts listed in the wiki are dead.
my WhatsApp+380675302867
All links work as they should for me: https://openinverter.org/wiki/BMW_I3_Fa ... LIM_Module

viewtopic.php?p=41641#p41641

https://www.evcreate.nl/shop/charging/v ... mw-i3-lim/
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:50 am Yes, best is to have a switch on it. check it cycles on the canbus as you say. What is the reported contactor status? In the same message.
The contactor status was the 7 in the 0x72.

But now, while the car was turned on, I used a cable to connect it to ground. It indeed switched to 0x71. Then I removed the cable again, it turned to 0x70. And then... *click* *click*, it turned to 0x00 :-D

I guess I'll put a little relay there, switching it to GND when the plug detection says there's a plug inserted. Because then, I guess, the charge port must be opened. ;-)

So now I guess I can make another test at the CCS station.

Thanks for the confirmation!
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

christoph wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:00 pm I guess I'll put a little relay there, switching it to GND when the plug detection says there's a plug inserted. Because then, I guess, the charge port must be opened. ;-)
Might that be the source of the error state? Having a cable plugged in despite the flap being "closed"? That combination sound like something is wrong...
User avatar
Jack Bauer
Posts: 3563
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:24 pm
Location: Ireland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 87 times
Contact:

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Jack Bauer »

Same here. Even in stock at evcreate.
I'm going to need a hacksaw
User avatar
asavage
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 10:57 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
Has thanked: 269 times
Been thanked: 103 times
Contact:

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

Eltis wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:43 am Hello. Who can sell me a charge inlet voltage sense board? The contacts listed in the wiki are dead.
I just checked: the links in the Wiki are functional:
https://openinverter.org/wiki/BMW_I3_Fast_Charging_LIM_Module#Isolated_DC_charge_inlet_voltage_sense_board

I bought one from muehlpower less than three months ago; PM him to contact him to purchase his version.

Lars sells their different version at EVcreate, and his web shop shows (2) in stock.
Al Savage
2014 RAV4 EV
NissanDiesel
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:50 am Yes, best is to have a switch on it. check it cycles on the canbus as you say. What is the reported contactor status? In the same message.
So... unfortunately I'm still not quite there yet. That welding test seems to succeed - at least byte 2 turns to 0x00. But at soon as I actually try to start charging the the state goes from 0x01 (charge flap open) to 0x05 (charge flap open + contactors closed) but then quite fast to 0x31 ("Cont Weld cannot be carried out").

What could be the problem?

Both contactors seem to wok. At least they sound if i connect +12V/GND to them for a short period time.
Did I connect the contactors correctly? The wiki page tells me it's first one cable of one contactor then the first cable of the other contactor then the second cable of the first contactor and finally the second cable of the other contactor from pin 1-4 of connector 4B.

I use these contactors: https://www.evcreate.nl/shop/charging/t ... coil-135a/
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

christoph wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:22 pm What could be the problem?
Please create a can log of you charging attempt.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:27 pm Please create a can log of you charging attempt.
Will do. Well.. should have done... Which format do you prefer?
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

A format that works with savvycan please. I do not have time to alter files so Savvycan can read.

Any other information, like any errors?
Have you check your HV system isolation?
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:49 pm A format that works with savvycan please. I do not have time to alter files so Savvycan can read.
Don't have that software. But I'll have a look into it.
tom91 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:49 pm Any other information, like any errors?
Have you check your HV system isolation?
No other errors. But an EFACEC did indeed not pass the isolation test. The ABB one did. Do you think that might be related?
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

christoph wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:54 pm Don't have that software. But I'll have a look into it.

No other errors. But an EFACEC did indeed not pass the isolation test. The ABB one did. Do you think that might be related?
Yes it could be always good to check this.

It supports most more well known logger files.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:33 pm Yes it could be always good to check this.
What exactly do I need to test? Resistance between GND and HV +/- being towards infinite?
tom91 wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:33 pm It supports most more well known logger files.
Ok, does the attached test file work for you? There's nothing happening. Only want to make sure it's right before I produce a real world one later today or tomorrow.

Edit: I simply added the weldtest.csv. Triggered the error by removing the 4B connector.
Attachments
weldtest.csv
(137.49 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
test.csv
(24.66 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

christoph wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:19 am What exactly do I need to test? Resistance between GND and HV +/- being towards infinite?

Ok, does the attached test file work for you? There's nothing happening. Only want to make sure it's right before I produce a real world one later today or tomorrow.

Edit: I simply added the weldtest.csv. Triggered the error by removing the 4B connector.
Files work.

Yes to start thats a good one, also check for voltage. The best thing to use is a propper isolation meter. Keep in mind that the battery needs to be connected to HV bus. Or you need to measure each section that would be active.

What BMS system are you using, is there any built in ground fault monitoring on the vehicle?
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:41 am Files work.
Great. I'll create logs then as soon as I pass by a CCS charger...
tom91 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:41 am Yes to start thats a good one, also check for voltage. The best thing to use is a propper isolation meter. Keep in mind that the battery needs to be connected to HV bus. Or you need to measure each section that would be active.

What BMS system are you using, is there any built in ground fault monitoring on the vehicle?
This is a Nissan Leaf 2016. And it works not only for driving but even for Chademo charging with the unchanged system. And the cable splice I made is active then. The only non-energized section is the the one between the CCS contactors and the CCS inlet. Does that mean if there's a problem it should be in that section?
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

No the problems might be due to the various items. Possibly the original BMS ground fault monitoring.

Please get a can log to review.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:50 am No the problems might be due to the various items. Possibly the original BMS ground fault monitoring.

Please get a can log to review.
So... there are the logs.

ABB is the one where the contactors close and then end up in the error state. Efacec didn't made it through isolation test.
Attachments
efacec.csv
(873.94 KiB) Downloaded 31 times
abb.csv
(881.59 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

christoph wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:30 pm So... there are the logs.

ABB is the one where the contactors close and then end up in the error state. Efacec didn't made it through isolation test.
You wrote your own code i believe looking at how long you stay in "cable test". The external charger even decides to move on before you request it. would it be due to waiting for the reported FC HV voltage to drop slowly, I would raise it to move on sooner, the charger does not mind.
image.png
ABB I see that as soon as the contactors shut the charger shuts it all down. So I would indeed look at Isolation. Possibly you got internal fault somewhere or the BMS is causing issues.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:42 pm You wrote your own code i believe looking at how long you stay in "cable test". The external charger even decides to move on before you request it. would it be due to waiting for the reported FC HV voltage to drop slowly, I would raise it to move on sooner, the charger does not mind.
I use this code:
https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... /i3LIM.cpp

Even in that given revision. So this is where the delay comes from. I call Send10msMessages every 10ms, Send100msMessages and Control_Charge(true) every 100ms and Send200msMessages every... you guess it... 200ms. And looking at the CAN timestamps, this seems to work.

And I set these params: Param::udc (to the voltage reported by the Leaf battery), Param::idc (to the current reported by the Leaf battery, might be negative when not in charge mode, might this be a problem I wonder now writing that?), Param::opmode to 0 when charging, Param::SOC to state of charge in percent, Param::BattCap to the battery's capacity in Wh. And finally CCS_ILim to the maximum amperage wanted.

Is there anything obviously wrong? Is there another version with different timing as you noticed that this might be wrong?

This is my complete code: https://github.com/cschleifenbaum/qleaf - stuff is happening in lim.cpp

The car is turned on at the give time with the heating drawing a bit energy from the battery. I'm not faking a Chademo charge yet but going there directly.
tom91 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:42 pm ABB I see that as soon as the contactors shut the charger shuts it all down. So I would indeed look at Isolation. Possibly you got internal fault somewhere or the BMS is causing issues.
Is the shutdown from the charger side somehow related to the 272 error? Does it happen before or after?
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

christoph wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:02 am Is the shutdown from the charger side somehow related to the 272 error? Does it happen before or after?
Now I had a look ath where it changes from 0x01 to 0x05 (to closed state). I had a look at the 0x2b2 message at the same time. Voltage in the first two bytes stays the same: 357,0V. And so does current: 0xffff. Both before the contactors close and after. And that does - I'm quite sure - not translate to 6553,5A.

At the same time I had a look at the 0x3b4 messages. The voltage measured by the voltage sensing board is in the range of 344-348V. Both before and after contactors closed. 348V when closed.

The battery voltage was 354V at that time.

Now I don't know how much of a voltage drop is normal. But honestly I think the voltage at the sensing board is a bit low. OTOH the cables from the contactor to the board are thin (but short).
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

christoph wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:02 am Is there anything obviously wrong? Is there another version with different timing as you noticed that this might be wrong?

Is the shutdown from the charger side somehow related to the 272 error? Does it happen before or after?
You have 2 issues one is timing based and the other is isolation based. I have resolved both in my version of coding.

Timing:

Code: Select all

 if(Cont_Volts==0)lim_stateCnt++; //we wait for the contactor voltage to return to 0 to indicate end of cable test
            if(lim_stateCnt>20)
            {
               if(CCS_Iso==0x1) lim_state++; //next state after 2 secs if we have valid iso test
               lim_stateCnt=0;
            }
I changed this to wait for the voltage to drop below 50V before proceeding, the decay of the voltage on the charge port depends on how the charger stages work and if they hard disconnect or not. The Can Log shows a very slow delay for the Efacec.

The ABB one closes contactors and then the charger gets upset right away, I have seen this issue before as you can see in the thread and it was isolation related. It did not communicate the fault all the way onto the canbus properly though so it was a hunt to find the issue.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:08 am You have 2 issues one is timing based and the other is isolation based. I have resolved both in my version of coding.

Timing:

Code: Select all

 if(Cont_Volts==0)lim_stateCnt++; //we wait for the contactor voltage to return to 0 to indicate end of cable test
            if(lim_stateCnt>20)
            {
               if(CCS_Iso==0x1) lim_state++; //next state after 2 secs if we have valid iso test
               lim_stateCnt=0;
            }
I changed this to wait for the voltage to drop below 50V before proceeding, the decay of the voltage on the charge port depends on how the charger stages work and if they hard disconnect or not. The Can Log shows a very slow delay for the Efacec.
Ok, will do that as well. I've seen that it gives me the CCS_Iso == 1 even earlier. Why actually wait 2 secs to accept it? But yeah, just waiting for a drop below 50V (after it once was above, I guess?) might be an idea. Or wait shorter. I'll test both.
tom91 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:08 am The ABB one closes contactors and then the charger gets upset right away, I have seen this issue before as you can see in the thread and it was isolation related. It did not communicate the fault all the way onto the canbus properly though so it was a hunt to find the issue.
Let me ask for the worst case: What would be if I got the polarity wrong?
tom91
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Location: Bristol
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

christoph wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:35 am Let me ask for the worst case: What would be if I got the polarity wrong?
Of what the current? or the voltage? Since there was no current flowing yet why look into this?
I strongly recommend you look at savvycan for analysing your own logs. The dbc file is on github for decoding and graphing.
Founder Volt Influx https://www.voltinflux.com/
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:44 am Of what the current? or the voltage? Since there was no current flowing yet why look into this?
I strongly recommend you look at savvycan for analysing your own logs. The dbc file is on github for decoding and graphing.
I'm actually quite sure I got the polarity right. At least I measured the voltage on the car side if the contactors when it was turned on. And it was as expected. Only wanted to know what would happen if I was wrong. Don't want neither the battery nor the charger to explode ;-)

If there's a ground isolation error, shouldn't there be some current flowing? To some unknown place? Isn't that the idea of a ground isolation error?
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:44 am I strongly recommend you look at savvycan for analysing your own logs. The dbc file is on github for decoding and graphing.
Yes, I'm looking at it right now! Thanks for the hint.
christoph
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:40 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

tom91 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:08 am I have seen this issue before as you can see in the thread and it was isolation related. It did not communicate the fault all the way onto the canbus properly though so it was a hunt to find the issue.
I looked at your log and yes, the behaviour is pretty much the same. The Nissan Leaf has a ground monitor error code, but nothing is set. Chademo charging is working as well. It shouldn't otherwise.

So to check this I have to measure if there's voltage between + <-> GND and - <-> GND. And that if the wire is live, obviously. It should be 0V. Is that correct? I don't want to kill myself, nor the multimeter, nor any car part :-o
Post Reply