Jaguar battery porn XXX

[arber333]

Yes i have promised you exciting times with my new battery from Jaguar IPACE.
Battery itself is some 90kWh and 388Vdc nominal. Configuration is 4P108S!
Dimensions are 225 cm x 145 cm x 15 cm, weight of complete tub is 600kg.
I weighed the single module and its weight is 12kg. Therefore battery Net weight is 430kg.

There is a lot of NASA insulation material covering the cells.
Casing tub is hollow and i guess liquid cooled. There are some ingenious overpressure valved built in . Whole assembly is made very sturdy. I could walk on the cover with minimum twisting.
Cell modules are bolted to the floor by 4 bolts and there is a sticky compound under them. I used old fashion wedge method to take them apart . What you need to be carefull about is to support wedges at the corners where there is a lot of milled alu material. Rest of the module is more risky thin wall alu box. Cell module box is friction welded to the sides, so there is no possibility to get the modules apart easily.

Each module is 12V, 4P3S configuration. Cells are LG Chem 60Ah HW001 cells assembled in Wroclaw Poland.

Also when i took apart the main contact box i found very pleasing discovery. Jaguar uses 500A ISA shunt and 2x 200A Gigavac contactors for Fast charging. Everything is wired for my Chademo application. Talk about great minds think alike Damien!

This will be a lot of pics.
Prepare yourself for full disclosure!

[arber333]

Next pics posted because i cant fill the first post with everything i have

[arber333]

Some more ISA shunt beauty with Gigavac shining .
It really is wired exactly for my CHADEMO application .

[JaniK]

WoW its allmost plug and play Chademo battery set ..

Very cool to be able to get exactly what you need and reuse and not having to scrap old and buy new.

[johu]

Nice catch
Those modules look very similar to a 12S module down in my shed. I think from CATL
Where does the BMS connect?
EDIT: never mind, just saw it.

[clanger9]

Amazed to see an Isabellenhütte and Gigavacs in there
Stunning specs on those modules - if only they were 24s! Ah well, it shows what is possible with careful packaging...

[tom91]

I have to say I have a Isabellenhütte shunt out of an Ipace pack, it does not seem to behave like a normal one. So it needs some investigating if it can be reconfigured.

[arber333]

I have to say I have a Isabellenhütte shunt out of an Ipace pack, it does not seem to behave like a normal one. So it needs some investigating if it can be reconfigured.

Hm... that could ruin my plan. Can you share what be the difference from original ISA500? Is it just CAN msg or wiring too?

In the case CAN is different i can observe my pug charging on 3phase. I can set various amp values. So that would capture at least enough sample to be able to extrapolate further values.

[tom91]

I have to say I have a Isabellenhütte shunt out of an Ipace pack, it does not seem to behave like a normal one. So it needs some investigating if it can be reconfigured.

Hm... that could ruin my plan. Can you share what be the difference from original ISA500? Is it just CAN msg or wiring too?

In the case CAN is different i can observe my pug charging on 3phase. I can set various amp values. So that would capture at least enough sample to be able to extrapolate further values.

I need to inspect it once again, did you look at the wiring to it?

I recall not being able to get any canbus out of it.

[arber333]

Now of course i had to sacrifice one of the batteries and peel off its cover to satisfy your curiosity!

Mind you it was difficult as the batteries are glued together with some 3M tape. Also they are glued to bottom of the module case. Heat transfer agent it seems. I used Parkside battery angle grinder with thinnest disc.

First i went and simply cut the welds on the side so that i could remove the sides and its plastic. Cells are neatly stacked inside with plastic sides to keep them isolated and in place.
Then i cut on the top sidewhere i expected to be more space between batteries and casing. I tried to shift cells inside casing, but they were really glued to the bottom.
After an hour of trying to come to terms with battery not moving i decided to go for it. I used my plummers grip pliers and tried to peel the alu wall around batteries. After a while i figured the most effective way to pull the alu wall around and brake the bond between cells and thermal glue.

I got the cells out. But they were also glued together DOH! The thin tape with wire contacts is BMS wiring. It also includes 2x thermistors. I had to pull it off since i wanted to dissassemble cells.
Configuration is really 4P3S. To split the cells i cut the copper contact where it was the thinnest. Then i used a hard reinforced plastic (PCB material) between cells to push the tape down along the cells to break contact between them.

What i finally got was cells in configuration of 2P. To connect them i will have to make copper blocks and bolt them with M5 to the original contacts from behind.

[arber333]

Last time i posted my first attempt at taking off alu box off Jaguar battery modules. That was a scary adventure, since the battery is glued to the bottom by some thermal compound. We couldnt make the battery move inside the box and cutting the thin alu sheet presented quite a hazard the first time. I read that also Audi eTron uses similar battery and i think it is assembled the same way. This could also apply for them.Just for you i decided to post my approved procedure on how to unbox those batteries. Approved by me of course .

Prepare the workplace with a suitable tools and be prepared for ton of alu dust. Seriously! Protect yourself by wearing gloves and mask with a breather filter.

Use a suitable angle grinder with a thin disk. First make the cuts at the sides where box is welded to the side plates. Later on those will be removed.
Next use the same grinder to cut a groove along one of the walls on the underside of the module. The upper side is not glued and hence you dont need to peel the wall there. On the underside however there is a thick thermal mass which is sticking to the batteries. Since alu wall is smoother than that mass i counted on the mass braking on the peeling motion. Once the groove is done I cut a bit more into the wall at the sides so we are able to peel back the wall more easily.

Next i use a chisel and bang it along the groove so alu peels off along the edge. Then i remove the sides by M8 bolt inserted in a hole on the sides. Give the bolt a good bang with a hammer. The sides will drop off by themselves...

Next use the nail puller grips to peel the wall back and expose the thermall mass. As long as the motion is peeling thermall glue will break off.
For further leverage i clamped the battery into the wall by a metal tube and a wooden board. This helped me when my friend couldnt come to me because of the lockdown.

Continue the peeling motion untill we come to the last battery. Now be very carefull because sometimes battery sticks to thermal glue a little to hard and there is a risk of peeling the skin off the last battery!

Once that battery is free i turn module around and use a thin sheet of plastic to cut off the 3M glue that sticks the cells to the side wall. Now calls are completely free and i remove them and store them for later contact cutting.

[RetroZero]

Impressive Arber!! No need to subscribe to dodgy porn sites during lockdown. Got everything here!! Even Pole Dancing possibilities!

[johu]

Very nice
Silly question: can you use the battery without peeling it?

[arber333]

Very nice
Silly question: can you use the battery without peeling it?

Sure in an instant! Battery modules are very Lego friendly. However I have to take them apart because I bought them with a friend and we want to have 1/2 each. That is still 45kwh each, plenty of energy for my use.
I tried to fit them in my car. It would fit, just barely. But then we would have to get another battery for my friend and I consider the first Corona shipment adventure in itself, also €€€ themselves are considerable...

[clanger9]

Love this thread. Any chance you could post the overall dimensions of a module?
I'm trying to collate some specs on OEM modules on the wiki: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Batteries#OEM_modules

[arber333]

Love this thread. Any chance you could post the overall dimensions of a module?
I'm trying to collate some specs on OEM modules on the wiki: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Batteries#OEM_modules

Sure! Dimensions are 340mm x 155mm x 112mm, weigh is 12Kg inside alu case. Max nominal current should be 3C, 720A. Peak current is supposed to be 5C so 60Ah*4*5 = 1200A!!! Some photo of cell numbers if it helps to find datasheet.
Now i have all of them out and i am readying myself (psychologicaly) to cut the contacts and reconnect them in 16S2P connection or 8S2P whatever will be easier to move into/out of the box.
I will make some photos later. It seems i will be able to use original copper blocks eventhough it will not look very tidy. But surface area will be plenty for 600A i intend to pull out of them. Sadly BMS connections i will have to remove and remake my own because original connector is welded to wrong cells.

[clanger9]

Brilliant, thank you! Amazing volumetric density on those things - best so far on my list!

[arber333]

Brilliant, thank you! Amazing volumetric density on those things - best so far on my list!

Yeah, it gets even better since you can skim 3mm off every side because of the alu wall and plastic/foam sheeting. If i consider 90kWh is packed into 36x 12kg = 432kg with some 8kg of alu waste I can really appreciate its density. My Mazda Kokams weigh at 220kg for 31kWh and they were made for an aeroplane in NASA competition. So you must imagine the advance from 2014. Now i have 45kWh weighing 210kg!
I will have to demonstrate current capability because from what i have seen my Kokam are superior to Volt cells in energy transmitted and received efficiency. I measured regen in Mazda with same motor/controler in the same conditions and the same SOC levels. Kokam had like 15% better regen amperage at same speed and same incline even regen lasting to lower RPM for ACIM motor.
While powerwise they need to remain limited to 240A or they selfdestruct .

[clanger9]

That is an incredible spec.

They easily outperform the Leaf 40kWh modules I'm planning to use for my bike project - and the Nissan modules are very, very good
Unfortunately, the iPace cell configuration is wrong for my modest needs (I don't need 1200A!), otherwise I'd be seriously looking at these modules...

[arber333]

Love this thread. Any chance you could post the overall dimensions of a module?
I'm trying to collate some specs on OEM modules on the wiki: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Batteries#OEM_modules

There is an error in your estimation. Cells inside are 3S4P configuration with 3,65Vdc per cell nominal. That makes every module run at 11Vdc nominal.
So all in all 36x11 makes this 396Vdc NOMINAL pack with 4.1V/cell peak to 453Vdc! But i think Jaguar never goes above 4.1Vdc.

[arber333]

That is an incredible spec.

They easily outperform the Leaf 40kWh modules I'm planning to use for my bike project - and the Nissan modules are very, very good
Unfortunately, the iPace cell configuration is wrong for my modest needs (I don't need 1200A!), otherwise I'd be seriously looking at these modules...

Well i will be left with 4 cells that i cant fit due to my inverter voltage limit. I will twist and strain them for data,
A friend has a capacitance meter and i have iR meter. Then i need to go Damien with a suitable length of flat iron to measure voltage drop at 1000A!!!
Should be fun.

[clanger9]

There is an error in your estimation. Cells inside are 3S4P configuration with 3,65Vdc per cell nominal. That makes every module run at 11Vdc nominal.

Doh! My bad - I read 12s somewhere and didn't check. Of course they are 3s. Now fixed...

[Jack Bauer]

Arber, did you ever get comms with the bms working?

[arber333]

Arber, did you ever get comms with the bms working?

No, after innitial observation and testing the wiring and Rover version of ISA shunt i never tried. I think i am out of my depth on this, that is why i offered you those BMS units.
In any case i had to split up the cells to fit them in my car so original BMS is not really an option. I am using my own design protecting the cells at top and bottom end with two daisy chain OR loops through my DUE control.

[Jack Bauer]

Sorry Arber I got pulled away as usual. Would you still have the bms boards?