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SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:57 am
by Peter
Hi Forum. Been searching around the forum to see if anyone has details of fitting an external oil pump but cant find much info. Does anyone have info on which pump(s) to use and where to fit please. I intend to use a 2017/2018 S or X unit running in reverse. Thanks in advance. Peter
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:54 pm
by Jack Bauer
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:18 pm
by Peter
Thanks Damien. Just need info on connecting to SDU before I commit to the project
Peter
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:53 pm
by Heikki J.
Hi! Peter, did you find a solution? I'm having the same problem to be solved right now. I have the gear housing open right now to access the oil pump and figure out how to get the cooling work in reverse operation. There would be space to relocate the piping but the pump does not work properly if run in reverse - so an external pump sounds like the way to go.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:22 pm
by Bigpie
Has anyone designed an adaptor plate for these pumps?
Need an oil pump for my oulander motor and I've recently befriended a CNC machinist.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:46 am
by Peter
Happy New Year to all. I am in the process of fitting an external oil pump using the type suggested by Damien (thank you). I completely removed the mechanical unit, piping etc and machined a new internal spray nozzle. I will be using the drain plug port in the diff case as the supply to the pump via a motorcycle size filter. The return will be via the blanked off port under the heat exchanger which I have tapped to 1/4" BSP. This will allow oil feed to the spray nozzle and to the rear of the motor. Removing the blanked off port was easy, just carefully screw in a 10mm plug tap to the steel plug and pull the part out. Initial priming may have to be by filling the filter etc manually. Fingers crossed the idea works ok. Any comments gratefully received. As to the pump adaptor plate that is work in progress. I can get these made if anyone is interested.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:14 pm
by Bigpie
What sort of a wallet emptying are we talking about for the adaptor plate? I have a pump on the way.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:14 am
by Peter
Hi Bigpie. Could be around £60. Aluminium block with 3/8" BSP ports. I will complete the drawing and post next week.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:31 am
by Heikki J.
Peter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:46 am
Happy New Year to all. I am in the process of fitting an external oil pump using the type suggested by Damien (thank you). I completely removed the mechanical unit, piping etc and machined a new internal spray nozzle. I will be using the drain plug port in the diff case as the supply to the pump via a motorcycle size filter. The return will be via the blanked off port under the heat exchanger which I have tapped to 1/4" BSP. This will allow oil feed to the spray nozzle and to the rear of the motor. Removing the blanked off port was easy, just carefully screw in a 10mm plug tap to the steel plug and pull the part out. Initial priming may have to be by filling the filter etc manually. Fingers crossed the idea works ok. Any comments gratefully received. As to the pump adaptor plate that is work in progress. I can get these made if anyone is interested.
Thanks for your answer Peter! I think I'll buy one of those BMW pumps also. Are you still planning to use some kind of heat exchanger - oil-to-water or oil-to-air? Perhaps you could add your own oil temp and pressure sensors to the setup also?
It will be interesting to see what kind of adaptor plate you have in mind - I might be interested in purchasing one also.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:46 pm
by Peter
I am relying on the Tesla heat exchanger as standard for oil to coolant heat transfer. Of course I will need a conventional radiator for coolant along with a fan. The adaptor plate is in CAD at the moment so if anyone can convert to Solidworks it will look more user friendly. I will post the file later. Depending on how the pump primes will make my decision whether to pwm the oil pump with respect to when motor stopped to save battery power. As a footnote the adaptor will also enable fitting of a screw on oil filter. I decided to do this after seeing what the standard mesh filter has stuck to it !!
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:50 pm
by nkiernan
I can have a look at the Solidworks conversion if needed
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:25 am
by Bigpie
Anyone happen to know the part number of the 2 pin electrical connector on these BMW pumps?
Edit
Apparently this:
12527503411 - RUBBER GROMMET
12527507529 - SOCKET HOUSING
12527510668 - TERMINAL SOCKET
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:03 pm
by Bigpie
@peter, did you get anywhere with having the plate made?
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:16 pm
by Peter
Hi Bigpie. Sorry for delay in replying. I sadly had to re-design the adaptor as once my SDU was fitted the oil cooler was too close to bodywork ! So, my re-design involves a new adaptor plate with different oil cooler. I have incorporated a small screw on filter too. I will post some pics later. So far cost has been just under £200, that includes second hand pump, oil filter, grommets, gasket and oil cooler. Still need BSP fittings and pipes. The simpler version which just uses filter and pump would be cheaper, around £85, thats only for the adaptor though. As soon as I have it piped up I will report back. Peter
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 am
by EV_Builder
Heikki J. wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:53 pm
Hi! Peter, did you find a solution? I'm having the same problem to be solved right now. I have the gear housing open right now to access the oil pump and figure out how to get the cooling work in reverse operation. There would be space to relocate the piping but the pump does not work properly if run in reverse - so an external pump sounds like the way to go.
Is that front drive unit? Or model X rear? Can't place the cooling mounting. And can you exain how the oil travels?
Where is the pickup and is the cooling partial and partial injected?
I can't figure out the return of the oil cooler.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:00 am
by Peter
Hi Walter. Not sure of the bearing return flow but it must work
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:16 am
by Heikki J.
EV_Builder wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 am
Is that front drive unit? Or model X rear? Can't place the cooling mounting. And can you exain how the oil travels?
Where is the pickup and is the cooling partial and partial injected?
I can't figure out the return of the oil cooler.
That is front drive unit from a 2016 Model S Performance. The picture is kind of upside-down - the pickup is in top right corner where the pump (with black plastic gear) sucks and the oil travels though the hose into a cooler. There's a nozzle on that plastic piece in the end of hose where the oil goes between those gears.
I'd assume if the pump is external the oil needs to travel in other direction to that nozzle also.
Also I'm not sure where the oil return is - it's somewhere inside the motor. I haven't opened it more.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:47 pm
by EV_Builder
Aaahhh thank u very clear picture now. Allot of course was obvious but those last details make it great.
I was thinking if adding a Big filter between the oil cooler would make sense.
I now think it won't make allot of sense the biggest issue with this type of method is start from the line torque.
There is no oil film yet but because of huge electric torque there is torque. When having an electric pump you can make sure that while standing still the oil film is there. For electric consumption you can/could even make a oil pump mapping.
What wonders me was a thread in DIY electric which stated that the pump could be reversed and stuff like that...strange.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:03 pm
by ViktorT
Interesting! I will also buy something similar as that BMW pump. I have a small front drive unit intended for an alfa romeo 147, going in reverse. I took off the plastic wheel from the existing pump and will use the drainplug to take the oil to the external pump. I have 3D printed a pirce with an inlet hole that shall fit just under the heat exchanger for the inlet back to the gearbox
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:00 pm
by lukeogden
Hi ViktorT
How far did you get with this modification for the oil pump? Did it work to allow the motor to run in reverse?
Would be interested in getting one machined for my SDU, do you have a model I could use?
Luke
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:45 pm
by muehlpower
I don't know if this is still up to date, but I found a picture of a 2020 SDU that shows something like an external oil pump and an oil filter.
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:03 pm
by Isaac96
Looks just like Figure 2B in this patent application from January 2019.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/ ... b=DRAWINGS
It appears to contain some temperature sensors and to have adjustable speed. Does that mean it has to be CAN controlled?
Re: SDU external oil pump
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:16 pm
by nubster
Hi Peter & ViktorT,
So, did you guys (or anyone else) ever get the external pump integrated and working? Would y'all mind confirming your final approaches and how well they worked? Any gotchas, etc? ViktorT would you be willing to share the STL for that adapter you made?
I'm in the process of familiarizing myself with the oil cooling system in the SDU. Is it correct that by using the drain plug to feed the pump and then returning via the oil cooler (either via the blanked-off port or adapter) that the oil will flow through the cooler in reverse from normal operation? If I were to simply block off the inlet to the existing spray nozzle, would the oil find its way to the nozzle, or do I need to do anything else? You mentioned you machined a new spray nozzle, so I just wanted to clarify. Thanks!