[WIP] Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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[WIP] Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

I (finally) have it... I have wanted an mx5 since we'll they year this one was built (1999), and have wanted to do an ev conversion since I saw 'Wheeler dealers Maserati Bi-Turbo' which then lead me to Damian's Panzer (Siemens Motor version) and EVTV, which really sparked my interest.
Now thanks to the availability of hybrid cars and the inability of people to drive them (and of course johannes/Damian's hard work), it looks like I will be able to make a fun, affordable EV!

Parts acquired so far:
1. Car I really like :D ... this car should be lighter than stock when done!
2. Outlander rear motor + diff (haven't decided if to use gearbox or not yet, or if to modify the Outlander diff to connect to prop shaft)
3. Prius inverter & Yaris inverter (spare/parts)
4. EVBMW inverter board (finally managed to solder the horrid connector)
5. VW Passat GTE 9.9 kwhr battery (Samsung 28ah 96s) - photos soon of dissembling... I really like these modules
6. Low voltage (slow) charger to charge individual modules for bench testing.
7. Various Arduino, stm32, Teensy & electronics bits and bobs for the task at hand.
8. Lathe on order to allow the manufacturing/modifying of parts
9. 3d printer for all of those bits and bobs I will need.
10. TIG welder I know I will need one this is a mx5 afterall!

Project Aims:
1. Make useable Ev of course
2. Document as much as possible to aid others
3. Use/make as much open source as possible
4. Safe redundant design (no single points of failure for safety items i.e secondary HV cut off on charger etc)
5. Re Use the Prius inverter as a charger (PFC boosting then using buck boost inductor to do the actual charging, I would realy like 7kw 32a home charging, however I might have to abandon on safety grounds as scrap chargers are not that expensive)
6. Share/help as much as possible on the forum

Timescales:
Ages ...
Bench test first
Actually do it !
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

What everyone has to remember is that the forum dwellers here are vampires, and our lifeblood is documentation. Photos, videos, descriptions. Sharing what you did and how you did it is the only real return anyone gets for helping strangers.

Looks like you're very much on the right track.

One thing I have noticed, the better you do with documentation, the less feedback you get.

I'm sure lots of people were excited about ZeroEV's Covid Miata build, but the thread was eerily quiet. Don't let that discourage you, everyone here is excited to see everyone make things.
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by Isaac96 »

Documentation makes projects look professional. And it helps them to be professional (if that's what you're after).
Sweet car, hope it goes well! I'm excited to see how you get on with the Prius charger.

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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

Since we don’t (yet) have a VW section …

Welcome to my disassembly log of the VW Passat GTE 9.9 KWHR Battery (96S 28AH Samsung).
IMORTANT NOTE: I CAN NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANYONE ELSE DISMANTLING A BATTERY IT IS HERE FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN! Please appropriately educate yourself on safety!

I Can Not understate the importance of Insulation when dealing With High Voltages, Both of your tools and yourself of course! Also ensuring that we do everything to prevent a Shor Circuit.

All Metal tools were covered in Tape And/Or Heat Shrink so that in the event of a drop there would not be a dangerous short circuit, and also as an added layer of insulation from the battery to myself!
I only ever toughed the HV contacts when I absolutely had to, no point taking chances!

Useful/Tools used:
1. Torx & Socket Drive Set (insulated with shrink wrap/tape)
2. Electric Screwdriver
3. Magnet on a stick (Covered in tape of course)
4. Insulation Tape & Duct Tape
5. Gloves … I used nitrile gloves, Electrician’s gloves & some garden gloves so I didn’t tear the electrical gloves.
6. Electrical screwdrivers & a normal screwdrivers covered in insulation tape.
7. Voltmeter
8. Insulated shoes
9. Nylon straps the battery came tied to the pallet.
10. Emergency help on hand in case of electrocution (including gloves for them & I attached one of the nylon straps to myself so I could be pulled away)
11. Work in the dry obviously


This VW battery box is seriously impressive piece of cast aluminum, probably bomb proof 😊, however about 30kg, so about 25% of total weight, if anyone does use one of these batteries In a project I would seriously consider using the original box.
A09A7625.jpg
A09A7626.jpg
A09A7627.jpg

After Undoing all of the torx bolt on the top the cover can be removed … look at those precision straps to hold the modules down.
A09A7628.jpg


At this point after prodding about underneath the foam and looking down the sides I need access to the bottom to unbolt the modules, find that un-loved screwdriver (covered in paint in my case on top of my daughter’s rabbit hutch) and use gentle persuasion to remove the rubber plugs to get access to the torx bolts and remove them. Be very careful this thing is damn heavy you don’t wan this to land on your toes or any part of your body.
A09A7632.jpg
A09A7633.jpg


Now back to the top side … remove all the foam, disconnect all of the cables you can (I could not remove the module bms plugs). Happily my module sat at 355 volts (88.8v per module) so not too low at about 3.7v per cell!
I then started tackling all of the bolts holding down the modules in the middle, however then came the ones that were under the Contactor box.
The scary bit where I disconnected the HV connections from the Contactor box thing, immediately covering with insulation tape, first negative, positive, then I tackled the mid pack connection (not shown in this photo). Then I removed all of the connections from the contactor box to allow it the removed to allow access to the torx bolts obstructed by it.
A09A7634.jpg

The coolant pipes need disconnecting, these damn blue plastic clips are fiddly, the really nice laser cut straps (left/right) holding down the modules need removing.
Then the really fun/controversial part trying to get the modules out! What I found that worked was to use a strap to lift the outer side up, jammed a wooden mallet underneath, this allowed me access to the bolts that connect the module to module HV strap (& BMS connector) so they can be removed therefore allowing the modules to be lifted vertically (once the wooden mallet was removed).
A09A7635.jpg
A09A7636.jpg
A09A7637.jpg

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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

This first module is the hardest once that one is out it makes the second one easier, then onto the other side!
A09A7638.jpg

There out!! As you can see by this point I was shattered…. But one more job to do.
A09A7640.jpg

23.4Kg for a 24s 28ah module with liquid cooling not to bad.
A09A7642.jpg
Hopefully i will get some up close photos of the modules at the weekend :)
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

Okay, I have got myself addicted to something dangerous ... bateries, i have brought myself another Passat GTE battery pack so now i have 19.8KWhr (minus degredgation of course) of battery. well i had been busy with life in general so it took me a while to prgressing much further.
I thought i would quickly post some snaps of the inside nice contactor box that comes with the bateries and a quick look at the BMS.

1. inside Contactor Box (unfortunately i had no luck in tracking down what the shunt characteristcs were to resue it)
A09A7763.jpg
2. Nice view Coolent conectors and how the two halfs conect together
A09A7767.jpg


3. Close up view of the BMS, the markings on the chip are LTC6804G1
A09A7768.jpg
Now the real fun starts ... i got myself a teensy 3.2 & MCP2562 ... lets try and see if i can get some can captures from the modules and see if i can make sense of it :)
Based on the data sheet [havent found the exact one yet] even if i dont suceed in talking to the BMS via canbus i might be able to talk to the LTC via SPI
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by tom91 »

rstevens81 wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:01 pm Now the real fun starts ... i got myself a teensy 3.2 & MCP2562 ... lets try and see if i can get some can captures from the modules and see if i can make sense of it :)
Based on the data sheet [havent found the exact one yet] even if i dont suceed in talking to the BMS via canbus i might be able to talk to the LTC via SPI
You realise right that the SimpBMS already has voltage and temperature read out for these modules?

It requires a can command message to spit out useful data.

Have a look here: https://github.com/tomdebree/VW-bms
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

Ahh in your user manual you refer to Panasonic gte (golf), batteries these are Samsung gte ones (Passat).
I tried last night on a breadboard but didn't get it to work, but my cheap Chinese resistors were mislabeled or just crap only giving 105, so I ordered some more, so hopefully will try again soon.
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by tom91 »

Should be the same for both, you need to make sure to wire the 12V power and enable on the slaves.
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

Sort of an update but not really very ev-ish at the moment.
I'm now starting to hate the word restoration part of the restomod!
Put the car in for its MOT just before Christmas, surprise surprise it failed, basically minor stuff end snapped on spring and a little rust on the sill (tiny hole).
Stopped for Christmas as that was Daddy daughter time with Disney :)
Do decided ok since I'm going to be going to all of the effort to ev convert it in the near future I am going to do this right.....it's amazing how far rust goes under the skin well am now completely back to good metal.
Have now got some gas again for the welding! (Current UK laws are very confusing on if buying welding gas is allowed).

Out with the old!
IMG_20210123_152718570~2.jpg
In with the new (well not quite yet :))
IMG_20210123_152740196~2.jpg
What is really good is that this is the first time rust repair has been done here on a 1999 mazda that's quite amazing!

Next is weld in new sill + repair panel for the forward part of arch.
Repair arch
Then probably going to drop the subframe to underseal the car (plus paint the subframe).
I am just glad this is the car I've always wanted otherwise this would be a pain!

Ev wise I have been studying tom's code for the VW BMS in the hope of using both battery packs (which looks quite hopefull, but am probably going to manually balance every now and again).
Have shamelessly stolen arber333 can bus shield from his github and have started playing saavycan which is a good learning process.
Downside is have had issues with the silly connector on the Prius board, have lost my bottle and am trying to outsource to a soldering guru, but the phone shops are closed at the moment, but I am probably busy enough with the mechanicals for now.
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by Bigpie »

I found this info on diyelectriccar forum.
I do know that the current can be measured from Can Id 0xbb. It is sent 100 times a second and bytes 1 & 2 have the current . It measures + or - and upto about + - 200 Amps . Value seems to be Amps × 160
Do you have wiring info for powering up and getting can signals?
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

Tom (de Bree)'s simp BMS instruction manual, you only need 12v to two pins, ground to one and then there are 2 can pins

https://github.com/Tom-evnut/SimpBMS

A teensy 3.2 and toms firmware and a can transceiver will get you BMS cell voltages and temps.Oh and you will need a bag of 120 ohm resistors!
(I will try and add a pics of it in the morning)

Many thanks will have a look on DIY electric car, might need to some current testing in the shed on the weekend!

For anyone interested this is the thread:
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... 0k.200257/

note, Im not overly worried about can based contactor control as good old (simple) anlog control can be had from Damian Prius control board. But current and voltage sense could be useful.
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

As promised ...

A teensy 3.6 in this case (just an advanced version of a 3.2) I have used a 3.2.
IMG_20210209_090944698~2.jpg
Some quality shed wiring ....
IMG_20210209_090957768~2.jpg
Simp BMS outputs bus serial yes it is cold!
IMG_20210209_091005547~2.jpg
If you are interested the insides of the control board ... It will be nice if I can just use the output of this board for current measurement but if it is limited to 200amps as suggested by DIY electric car post I might need to swap it out for a bigger one ... Some Damian style testing on the weekend with a 12v battery maybe 😃
IMG_20210209_091027801~2.jpg
I have attached the mcp2562 datasheet so you can work out which pins to connect, note you have to pull the enable pin to ground
20005167C (1).pdf
Mcp2562
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by Bigpie »

Got a teensy on order.

So you've done away with the main control board for controlling the precharge and main contactors and just using the inverter? Do you know if they have economisers built in?

We should get a wiki page up and running for this info. https://openinverter.org/wiki/VW_Hybrid_Battery_Packs
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

I haven't decided firmly one way or the other yet, was favouring inverter control as less modes of failure.

unfortunately the contactors don't have economisers they draw 0.556amps. edit: just checked against gv242 (with economiser), that draws 0.160amps, so 3.5x more current can we live with 6.6w loss Vs 2 watts?

Yes I will start populating the wiki once I get the laptop back from my daughter this evening (the laptop has been kidnapped for home schooling and has had to have .... a windows10 partition added ... Feel kinda dirty now)
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by Bigpie »

Burn it :D

Re the contactor, as long as it doesn't burn it out without an economizer I can live without.

My control box looks different to yours so may contain different innards. Hopefully get to brave removing it tomorrow.
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by Bigpie »

Might need to separate out the wiki pages for the Golf and Passat? My main control board looks different to yours.
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

Yes we might, for the time being shall we just have separate headers for golf & Passat? Or shall we get the pain of 2 pages over with now? Do your contactors look similar?
Silly note the control box is underneath the contactors on mine, the BMS is bolted on the side. Seems strange to have such different PCB designs, sort of paying for the same job twice.
Yes I'm not too worried about 6.6w of heat dissipation in a UK climate! As I expect the bus bars will act as good heatsink.

Edit Just saw your pics in the wiki, makes it even stranger they have 2 designs, I can only imagine that it was two competing projects and the management went with both!
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by Bigpie »

Not sure, maybe they're off the shelf designs used by Panasonic / Samsung?
Maybe stick with sections as is for now and see how much divergence there is?
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

OK, long time update....
well life as usual throws spanners in the works :) we basically moved house so i had to get the mx5 back on the road in ice form for when we moved house and i have been back on the de-rusting and am now at the stage where the motor is fitted :) well here are some pics from the past...oh shit nearly 2 years!
well here is the back end refurbishment (repainted rear sub frame and re bushed and under sealed the rear half of the car), new rear sills, and new arches (inner and outer) and this is what i got it just so i could move it for last summer when we moved.
My phone broke so i could not salvage all of the pictures from it
IMG_20210227_170157386.jpg
IMG_20210509_142354449.jpg
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IMG_20210401_194636383.jpg
IMG_20210331_182834162.jpg
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

some more pics ... sadly i seem to have lost some pics of when i welded the new wings on and the sub frame after its painting
IMG_20210509_181623702.jpg
IMG_20210422_194437228.jpg
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IMG_20210418_210817765.jpg
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IMG_20210323_132753096.jpg
IMG_20210318_140814647.jpg
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

well that was up to spring 2021 so i had the summer to be a naughty boy and enjoy using it as the sale of our house went through.
Well moved in in September 2021 I have alot of house work to do, so far I have:
(1) redecorated the bathroom (completely ripping out everything and repositioning waste pipes etc. it had BROWN toilet sink, showers and tiles, so everything was replaced)
(2) removed an unsupported chimney breast in master bedroom with giant steel beam (builders wanted silly money to install rsj, so did it myself)
(3) redecorated 3! bedrooms (including re plastering and new ceiling due to removal of chimney)
(4) oversaw getting the house re-wired as the house didn't have an earth wire and had numerous mystery wires in walls (including a live one in the bathroom wall)
(5) Organising wetting the house re-plumbed as the boiler was in my daughters bedroom so needed to be moved/replaced, then found out the central heating needed re-plumbing as it was a 1 pipe system, which ment all radiators were in series!!)
(6) now started redecorating kitchen (completely ripped out as it was pure 70's bright orange!)

Whilst all of the above has been going on i have been shoe-honing more restoration and getting the motor in!

as you can see front chassis
IMG_20220610_215747_666.jpg
IMG_20220610_214004_214.jpg
IMG_20220610_213959_451.jpg
IMG_20220610_213849_426.jpg
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IMG_20220606_212738_041.jpg
IMG_20220606_212707_969.jpg
IMG_20220604_201345_885.jpg
IMG_20220604_201320_474.jpg
rails have had it !!
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

some more pics... plus an early mock up...
IMG_20220715_140418_636.jpg
IMG_20220708_194751_227.jpg
IMG_20220703_140946_481.jpg
IMG_20220621_201610_400.jpg
IMG_20220621_201553_812.jpg
IMG_20220621_201540_985.jpg
IMG_20220614_215352_500.jpg
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by rstevens81 »

now for the good stuff ...
IMG_20220806_122432_026.jpg
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IMG_20220929_115747_106.jpg
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Re: Mazda Mx5 (MK2)

Post by Ev8 »

Awesome, I thought you’d dropped off the face of the planet, we’ll done for getting going again far to many projects get unfinished. Looks like my RX8 will be getting a little sister!
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