SmartED using Prius Gen3 Inverter

[+mitch+]

Smart has an 80kw motor so will replacing inverter with the gen3 and running the single motor board make sense?
Battery will have to be 300v or so to provide ok performance but there should be enough space even in such a small car
for fresh cells. BMS and charging to be determined.
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[+mitch+]

Faint praise indeed! With 19 views and no "you can't do that's" I'm encouraged. I hope the smart motor has the requisite resolver connection, don't all EVs? My problem is lack of info on the smartEV compared to eg my having all 3 physical manuals for my Chevy SparkEVs. And the gen3 inverter should be overkill, right? Can't wait to strip out the battery box which in stock form is virtual swiss watch construction and fill it with sturdy nylon cased CALB cells with big honkin' studs and nuts. BTW currently Daimler can provide a refurb batt on a 3 month delay for some $12,600- installed 2 year warranty, so I'm motivated. 8^))
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[+mitch+]

Ok, motor appears to have electrical connection at the aft end presumably for resolver.
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[johu]

Welcome to the forum

I'd boldly claim that 100% of all synchronous EV motors feature a resolver.

Faint praise indeed! With 19 views and no "you can't do that's" I'm encouraged

No, too easy

[arber333]

Ok, motor appears to have electrical connection at the aft end presumably for resolver.
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Photos please...

[+mitch+]

[johu]

Yes that looks familiar, similar to ED2 motor. Can you find out the part number of that connector? I need to know for another project.

[+mitch+]

What is ED2 motor? Search yields nichts.

Should I use prius gen3 inverter or use existing inverter? The main reason I'm here since Damien's videos avoid this question.

You mean by simple inspection of the connector itself? But I'll need more dramamine.
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[jalovick]

I believe the Smart ED motors are the same as the original Fiat 500e and also used in the Peugeot 508 hybrid. The Resolver is apparently a Tyco unit.

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... 20.184217/

[+mitch+]

> the Smart ED motors . . . [jalovick]

Thank you for finding that. Yes mine is a 2014 EV3 in a complete car. I will look around for a loose ED3 motor to use for bench tuning. I had hoped to use an ancient Smart motor I have here but it is likely the ED1 motor with no resolver, at least none showing on the aft end. Front end is in a big square housing(??).
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[jalovick]

> the Smart ED motors . . . [jalovick]

Thank you for finding that. Yes mine is a 2014 EV3 in a complete car. I will look around for a loose ED3 motor to use for bench tuning. I had hoped to use an ancient Smart motor I have here but it is likely the ED1 motor with no resolver, at least none showing on the aft end. Front end is in a big square housing(??).
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Does the ED1 motor look like this one - http://www.zytekautomotive.co.uk/produc ... ines/55kw/ ?

There has been some work on hacking of it - https://hackaday.io/project/14806-hacki ... drivetrain

[+mitch+]

[/img]

Yes, that's the beast allright. In true Tesla fashion they are attaching the inverter directly to the aft end of the motor.

My prius gen3 inverter is due friday and yesterday I ordered an ED3 motor plus the EVBMW board so I'm committed to the latest technology.

So no one succeeded in getting the old motor to run? If they did the ballyhoo would be overflowing fer sure. [sadface]

Thanks much, now I know what is in this rat's nest:


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[jalovick]

So no one succeeded in getting the old motor to run? If they did the ballyhoo would be overflowing fer sure. [sadface]

Thanks much, now I know what is in this rat's nest:

I'm not aware of anyone getting it running, but I haven't done much research.

It looks like you've got the lot with that haul. Is that the battery pack under there as well?

[johu]

Does the ED1 motor look like this one - http://www.zytekautomotive.co.uk/produc ... ines/55kw/ ?

There has been some work on hacking of it - https://hackaday.io/project/14806-hacki ... drivetrain

Wow that position feedback device freaks me out, hall effect plus incremental encoder. Seems the newer ones use resolvers though?

[jalovick]

[Wow that position feedback device freaks me out, hall effect plus incremental encoder. Seems the newer ones use resolvers though?

Yes, the newer motors are Bosch SMG 180/120's, good for around 100 kW, used in the rear of the Peugeot 508 Hybrid, the Fiat 500e, and others.

[+mitch+]

No battery pack and no dash unit, but all sorts of other oddness in the pile.
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[+mitch+]

Got a spare Smart 2015 ED# motor for tuning the board. Resolver has 6 wires fed thru an unsplittable connector so I'll leave that alone since I broke off 2 tabs and still can't separate it. But 6 wires for the resolver(?)- I'll need to research.
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[johu]

Resolver always has 6 wires, 2 exciter, 4 feedback.

[Stuffcc]

I'm definitely supporting your project, I'm gonna receive my ED in a few weeks, coming from modified petrol engines I want to do something with my ED too.

I'm digging for info on the powertrain, and to my surprise there is pretty much nothing to find on modifications on this plateform.

We can see the battery internals on this channel : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMb_P7Vxd3I
And here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYhI0Fl-Xnk
And also here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOip5BokW4E

The new Smart EQ apprears to have the same battery, so nothing better here sadly.

I came across this article wich gives some info and an overview of the powertrain components, but they didn't open the inverter.
http://isopack.blogspot.com/2017/10/201 ... ortwo.html

[+mitch+]

SmartEQ has dissimilar battery with a few more cells per module, ostensibly for 'more power' but really just to stick it to us modifiers.
Thanx for the blogspot link, most excellent.

6 resolver wires - so that would make for xx permutations (need help here)
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[+mitch+]

Finally realized that I should have gotten a stock inverter to run the spare motor on the test bench, so I got one. Thus I'm now considering trying to replace logic board with an open board thereby keeping the inverter/motor interface completely stock. This would keep the car's canbus unmodified so hopefully the car would not realize that a foreign entity has taken control of the inverter. Wishful thinking?

Probably, since the car's system would certainly see that the traction battery has been replaced with a cobbed up pastiche of odd ev batteries in the +200vdc range.

So next to decide on using my gen3prius open logic board in the Smart inverter, somehow, or to get the generic open board and try to fit it in the Smart inverter. Any suggestions? TIA
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[m.art.y]

Any suggestions? TIA
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The easiest and most realistic way to get it running without being skilled in electronics is to just use Prius inverter if you have space where to mount it! You could even mount it in the battery box like I did but that would mean you'd lose some space for batteries.

The best option would probably be to be able to control the inverter with CAN, but it might be tricky depending on what protection measures manufacturers implemented.

The next best option would be to hack the inverter electronically and implement different control board but that will reguire some skill in electronics.

[+mitch+]

Now that I have a choice of inverters why would replacing inverter with the prius (with open logic board) be easier than keeping stock inverter (with open logic board)? I'm thinking the stock inverter belongs there leaving everything in place if at all possible. Immediate goal is just short distance use 30mph max, on ranch. Has anyone liberated a SmartEV to this level?
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[+mitch+]

Ok, saw Jack Bauer's recommendation on this very question, which I had forgotten about. Prius inverter is already hacked etc which is what @m.art.y was suggesting, thank you for that.

But now there is this new VCU project which I need to read up on.
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[m.art.y]

Now that I have a choice of inverters why would replacing inverter with the prius (with open logic board) be easier than keeping stock inverter (with open logic board)? I'm thinking the stock inverter belongs there leaving everything in place if at all possible. Immediate goal is just short distance use 30mph max, on ranch. Has anyone liberated a SmartEV to this level?
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Well that's the thing, original inverter belongs there leaving everything in place but if you can't run it what good does it do? You can leave the original inverter in place to hold the motor (and look stock) and still use the Prius inverter to drive the car you will just need to find some space to mount the Prius inverter. You might need to remove something from the stock inverter to give you access to phase cables and all you will need to do is to rout 3 phase cables from the Prius inverter and extend resolver connections to the Prius inverter. It might not be the best solution but it will 100% drive the car and will drive it well. As I said options to mount the Prius inverter is battery box, boot or anywhere it fits.

To be able to use VCU you will need to know what CAN commands or command combinations are needed to run your stock inverter. I have read there had been efforts to hack the stock inverter that way but I am not aware if anybody had been successful. You can always try to hack it yourself but it might prove to be tricky due to security bytes and checksums etc. Hence my suggestion that the easiest and most guaranteed way to get the car driving is just to use the Prius inverter. Which is what I did. Prius inverter has a dcdc and potentially a 20 kw charger in a compact design so it is not that bad of an option.