Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Tell us about the project you do with the open inverter
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james@N52E01
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Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Hi all,

I’m working on a new project for a friend and could really use some help. He is converting his Mk I Golf drop top using a Prius Gen 3 M/G and inverter with the V1b drop in logic board designed by Damien Maguire.
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There is an excellent write up on the Openinverter wiki for this setup using the V1c board, big thanks to whoever contributed. If you haven’t seen it, check it out - it’s great.
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Gen3_Board

I have the pinouts for the M/G resolver plugs from the Prius wiring diagrams, but haven’t had any success in finding how to relate them to the pinout on the V1b board (which are quite different to V1c. Can anyone help?
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by Speedy »

As no one else has answered, I think the answer you are looking for is here :-
konstantin8818 wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:13 pm I've checked with 4.87R already, nothing changed.
resolver connection MRFG-GND, MSNG-SIN A, MCNG-COS A, MRF-EXC A, MSN-ENC A, MCS-ENC B
Phases are connected straight 1,2,3 to 1,2,3.
Basically match pins 16 to 21 to the above list

Have a read around of that area in that support thread (click on the little arrow next to wrote: above to go to that thread
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Great, thank you Speedy that’s just what was needed! Having a read through the whole thread now... might take a while. The whole system is rigged up on the test bench, contactor control is working fine so hopefully will have some footage to show on Thursday.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by vwbrady »

You should continue to update us on the progress here! I am also working on a MK1 vw.

viewtopic.php?p=16785#p16785
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by konstantin8818 »

About that resolver connection: If, after syncofs tuning, your motor will run good in one direction but run away in other, try to swap ground and positive wires of sine or cosine detectors MSNG<>MSN, MCSG<>MCS. Damien helped me with this hint, when I've stuck with FOC tuning.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Great tip thanks Konstantin. Let’s see how we get on Thursday and I will report back. Off the top of my head I think the board he’s using came preloaded with the sine control firmware and isn’t set up for FOC but I’ll need to double check.

Edit: can’t remember what firmware version it is so no point guessing.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

vwbrady wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:20 pm You should continue to update us on the progress here! I am also working on a MK1 vw.

viewtopic.php?p=16785#p16785
Awesome Brady, I see you’re using the Gen 2 leaf with the power tower. Will be Following with interest!
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by vwbrady »

james@N52E01 wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:53 pm
vwbrady wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:20 pm You should continue to update us on the progress here! I am also working on a MK1 vw.

viewtopic.php?p=16785#p16785
Awesome Brady, I see you’re using the Gen 2 leaf with the power tower. Will be Following with interest!
I originally intended to use just the Leaf motor and Gen3 Prius Inverter setup. When i picked up the motor they gave me the whole tower! So now I have a prius inverter sitting around.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

That’s pretty handy, we’re using similar hardware then as I’m using the Gen 1 leaf motor and inverter on my car and helping with the Gen 3 Prius inverter and motor on the Golf.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by vwbrady »

james@N52E01 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:54 pm That’s pretty handy, we’re using similar hardware then as I’m using the Gen 1 leaf motor and inverter on my car and helping with the Gen 3 Prius inverter and motor on the Golf.
what motor are you going to use on the Cabby? also where on earth are batteries going to go?

My Cabriolet:
IMG_20170802_164919_01.jpg
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by ZooKeeper »

james@N52E01 wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:49 am Hi all,

I’m working on a new project for a friend and could really use some help. He is converting his Mk I Golf drop top using a Prius Gen 3 M/G and inverter with the V1b drop in logic board designed by Damien Maguire.

I have the pinouts for the M/G resolver plugs from the Prius wiring diagrams, but haven’t had any success in finding how to relate them to the pinout on the V1b board (which are quite different to V1c. Can anyone help?
Please see Damien's video on FOC tuning, beginning with timestamp 37:00 :D

Basically, one MUST absolutely ignore wire colors and designations and: a) use a multimeter to determine the wire pairings and b) go thru the process of pairing to find the 1 of 4 possible connection methods that actually works.

Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

ZooKeeper wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:28 pmPlease see Damien's video on FOC tuning, beginning with timestamp 37:00 :D

Basically, one MUST absolutely ignore wire colors and designations and: a) use a multimeter to determine the wire pairings and b) go thru the process of pairing to find the 1 of 4 possible connection methods that actually works.
Great, thanks ZooKeeper. I’m still not sure if the inverter is configured for FOC or sine wave control. Either way I’m guessing it wouldn’t affect the pairings? I’ll go through the complete video and let you know how we get on Thursday.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

vwbrady wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:22 pmwhat motor are you going to use on the Cabby? also where on earth are batteries going to go?
Beautiful Cabby! They do look very similar. The plan is to use the Gen 3 inverter and motor but nothing is fixed yet with the golf regarding batteries.

My own project is the Fig-Leaf where I’m using the Gen 1 Leaf motor and inverter controlled via CAN with a VCU board which is proving MUCH simpler, as long as you are happy being constrained by the limits of the inverter logic board.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by vwbrady »

james@N52E01 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:07 pm
vwbrady wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:22 pmwhat motor are you going to use on the Cabby? also where on earth are batteries going to go?
Beautiful Cabby! They do look very similar. The plan is to use the Gen 3 inverter and motor but nothing is fixed yet with the golf regarding batteries.

My own project is he Fig-Leaf where I’m using the Gen 1 Leaf motor and inverter controlled via CAN with a VCU board which is proving MUCH simpler, as long as you are happy being constrained by the limits of the inverter logic board.
this limits being the factory power output? like you said, much simpler to let the Leaf powertrain think it's still in a Leaf. Do the replacement boards add any features? i'd assume you can exceed factory output with such a solution.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Depends which option you choose. If you use an external VCU like I am using from EVBMW, the limits are fixed as for the Leaf: 80kw and 250Nm. Johannes has designed a replacement logic board based on his openinverter design which allows you to configure the Inverter/motor parameters to suit your application.

For the Fig Leaf though, 80kw is plenty so like you say, if the inverter thinks it’s in a leaf it’s much simpler to setup, as log as you know what CAN messages to send.

Both options come with several handy features like contactor control for pre-charging and wifi
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Hey guys it was a big day yesterday, not only did we get my own project fig-leaf moving for the first time, but also managed to get the Gen 3 Prius motor and inverter communicating. Has anyone used the Gen 3 Prius inverter and Gen 3 Motor together yet and if so would they be happy to share their parameters please (for either Sine or FOC)? I’m happy to post mine to get it working in sensorless for testing but as you can see from the results I think they must be quite a bit out.



Edit: Also, if anyone knows why MG2 clicks alternately every 180°I’d love to know. The last 12 seconds of my video sound like the intro to Angel by Massive Attack! :lol:
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by RetroZero »

I am looking at a Golf Mk1 too, with Gen2 set-up. Before going across the country to buy it, I would like to find out if there is enough space, and orientation is correct. I have been told that the gearbox is 'behind' the diff on the Golf, as apposed to Gen2 set-up which is in front. There is a good chance it will hit the radiator....I am going on a hunch that there is enough space, but since you have one handy, you might be able to have a quick check on dimensions..Appreciate your feedback.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Sure thing and happy to help. I’ve not had a look under the hood of the MK1 as it’s Pedro’s project but I’ll be down the garage tomorrow and will pose the question to him. To say he knows a lot about cars would be a massive understatement so I assume he has already measured the space but I’ll confirm tomorrow
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by RetroZero »

So, how's it looking under the hood for transaxle transplant? With having to respect original curb weight, what do you think about battery size and configuration?
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Sorry for the slow reply, nothing to report yet. I asked Pedro and he hasn’t looked into it but he doesn’t see an issue as if as you say, the Diff needs to be in front of the gearbox, he plans to flip the motor round and run it in reverse. I’m not aware of any issues with things like the flow of gearbox oil for either a gen 2 or gen 3 Prius motor if run in reverse, maybe someone else knows?
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by pedro »

Hi,

Did this ever get finished? If it did is there a wiki write up or youtube you could share.
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Re: Mk I Golf cabriolet / Prius Gen 3

Post by james@N52E01 »

Hi Pedro, very sorry for the slow reply. Sorry to say he mo9ved on to another project so he isn't likely to be starting this one any time soon.

All the best,

James
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