Volt gen2 BMS

Topics concerning OEM and open source BMSes
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by Zieg »

geduxaz wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:00 am Any success on this one? Have it on hand and not sure if it could balance 80S pack.
I'm actually really curious too, as I will be in a similar position with my build.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by dimonlipko »

I will use volt 2 bms, read cell voltage and temp sensor by service can comand. But 1 cell bms not see, and make disballance cell very fast.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by Bratitude »

dimonlipko wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 8:13 pm But 1 cell bms not see, and make disballance cell very fast.
are you saying the bms will try to balance the cells rapidly if a cell is “missing” ? And as a result drain a few cells out of balance?
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by dimonlipko »

I dont know, is bms see "missing" cell, or i can read voltage of this cell via can. I think, that i have demage bms, but i try it on second bms, and the results are the same.

Yes, bms is try balance cell, and make it wrong. In a result make high disbalance of battery.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

Ok not to be that guy, but I'm waking up this thread. arber333 and bratitude, have you gotten any further in using the Volt Gen2 BMS?

I'm switching Shocking Chevy over to Gen2 packs, and now that I've opened up the Gen2 pack, I would really like to use the Gen2 BMS, rather than my original plan of converting over the Gen1 BMS with SimpBMS. Of course, I'm on a super short time frame.

The outstanding questions to me would be:
- Do we know enough to get SOC, temperature, and error status from the BMS?
- Do we need to communicate with it to cell balance or any other function?
- Will the stock BMS get upset if we charge to the packs full capacity (since GM only charged it part way when it was in the Volt)?

Do either of you have working Arduino or STM32 code to communicate with it?
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by amsmntparks »

I've reworked the SimpBMS code to work with a Gen 2 Volt pack. I haven't tried it in while actually charging yet, but that's coming soon. Glad there's some renewed interest in getting these to work!
P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 2:13 pm The outstanding questions to me would be:
- Do we know enough to get SOC, temperature, and error status from the BMS?
- Do we need to communicate with it to cell balance or any other function?
- Will the stock BMS get upset if we charge to the packs full capacity (since GM only charged it part way when it was in the Volt)?

Do either of you have working Arduino or STM32 code to communicate with it?
1. I can get the SOC, and temp from the battery pack. I can also get the error status messages generated from the SimpBMS logic, but that's all error checks based on it's own code and not error messages directly from the Chevy BMS.
2. I don't know about this. I don't think you need to send it any signals to try and balance the cells, but I could be wrong about that. If you do need to send it a message to enter/exit balancing mode, I don't know what that would be.
3. I'm not certain about this either, but I kind of doubt it. I think there's another control module in the Chevy that decides when to stop charging based on the messages the BECM reports about the cell voltages.
4. I do have a fork of the SimpBMS code, but it still needs to be tested.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

amsmntparks wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:57 pm I've reworked the SimpBMS code to work with a Gen 2 Volt pack. I haven't tried it in while actually charging yet, but that's coming soon. Glad there's some renewed interest in getting these to work!

4. I do have a fork of the SimpBMS code, but it still needs to be tested.
Awesome! That just made my week.
amsmntparks wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:57 pm 1. I can get the SOC, and temp from the battery pack. I can also get the error status messages generated from the SimpBMS logic, but that's all error checks based on it's own code and not error messages directly from the Chevy BMS.
That's great, I'd love for the SimpBMS to just report the SOC and temps from the pack to the Nexiton screen. Other than that, I just need it to turn on and off a relay based on error messages and SOC as a safety, and the SimpBMS ones will work for now. I think we can eventually get the GM ones as well.
amsmntparks wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:57 pm
3. I'm not certain about this either, but I kind of doubt it. I think there's another control module in the Chevy that decides when to stop charging based on the messages the BECM reports about the cell voltages.
That would make sense. I did some poking around earlier today, and I think that the 2015+ SparkEV pack (GM in-house built not A123), is just a Volt Gen2 pack. The modules look identical, the pack is also 96s2p, and it was claimed as "around 19kWh" which matches the 18.4? of the Volt Gen2. Since its GM, my guess is that the messages should all be the same between Spark and Volt, but it's also GM, so they could be completely different too.

I should be able to get my packs into the car this weekend, and maybe even get the SimpBMS wired up. Obviously, it currently has the Gen1 BMS firmware and baud rate, but I'd be happy to try your fork if you're ok with it.

I'm looking around at various options to get the GM factory service manuals so I can review pinouts and whatnot. Haven't purchased anything yet.


Oh and a related question - what's the proper order to plug things back in to avoid damaging the BECM?
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by Mitchy »

Can confirm the Spark pack uses the same BMS as the Volt Gen2, but interestingly enough it seems they use a Gen1 VSTM module to provide additional Cell Temp inputs; all the cells go back to the main BMS, but 2 cell temps feed into the VSTM (From what I recall)

I'd also be interested in what you've came up with, Not too worried about cell balancing for right now, as I really just need cell monitoring to get me up and running. (I have a ZEVA Setup ready to go, but my spark pack wiring hasn't yet been butchered_

For reference, 2019 Volt Gen2 pack uses the 27wh cells, for a 18.6 kwh capacity, while the 2016 spark battery uses 26wh cells, for a 18kwh capacity
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by amsmntparks »

Interesting news on the Spark pack. I based my work for the voltage and temp data on the OpenDBC files: https://github.com/commaai/opendbc
What error messages are you expecting to get directly from the onboard BMS?
I have my code up here: https://github.com/amsmntparks/AmperaBattery
A couple of things to note:
1. I've disabled all CAN sending from the Simp to the pack because I don't want it to send anything it's not supposed to. Think of it as "read only mode."
2. I'm also not wiring the connections to the battery in the way SimpBMS documents it because I didn't want to cut into the harness. I'm just using the ports on the front.
I got the pinout and the correct order from the service manual from alldata.com. I don't think I can embed photos but will post them if I can figure that out.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by mayes8229 »

I had screenshots of a lot of the wiring diagrams at one point, but I'd have to go digging around for them. I can't remember if I have them in cloud storage or local
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by Mitchy »

I've been meaning to probe the internal canbus of the Gen2 module to see if the signals are similar to the Gen1.
Would make sense that they integrated the Gen1 modules into a single unit; seems there's an interface controller on the front end.
Been a while since I poked around with the board, but I believe there's some CAN circuitry before it gets to the main interface chip.
Each BMS Measurement chip is isolated similar to the Gen1 units, along with a S12 Micro, so at least in principle they're using the same base layout.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:45 am I based my work for the voltage and temp data on the OpenDBC files: https://github.com/commaai/opendbc
I think that's the right way to go. It does look like some Spark owners got pretty far into exploring their packs and CAN data, so it might be a good check. I've got to re-find the forum that I was looking at. Problem of jumping between my personal and work computers. (and looking at this during work hours)
amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:45 am What error messages are you expecting to get directly from the onboard BMS?
Probably the same that Simp would flag, cells out of balance, temp too high or too low, pack too high/low. Ideally, sending the actual issue to the display would be better than just "error" but that may be something I need to sort out myself in the future.

It would also be good to know if its not seeing something it should, and if it reports something like pack to frame isolation faults.

I don't see anything in the opendbc with those error codes, I'll see if I can find anything out there from the Volt or the Spark.
amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:45 am I have my code up here: https://github.com/amsmntparks/AmperaBattery
Is this the correct file? VoltBMSV2.ino.TEENSY32.hex

Side note, it'd probably be helpful to somehow label this file or put it in a folder that indicates its for the Gen2 BMS, since its forked from the Gen1 repo.

I'll give it a shot this weekend and report back. I'm trying to find time to do some work on it during the week.
amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:45 am 1. I've disabled all CAN sending from the Simp to the pack because I don't want it to send anything it's not supposed to. Think of it as "read only mode."
Agree this is the right way to go. The stock BMS should do what it needs to and we can just get data from it.
amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:45 am 2. I'm also not wiring the connections to the battery in the way SimpBMS documents it because I didn't want to cut into the harness. I'm just using the ports on the front.
I got the pinout and the correct order from the service manual from alldata.com. I don't think I can embed photos but will post them if I can figure that out.
Makes sense, I'll probably do something similar. Can you post the pinout and plug-in order to a folder in the Github repo? Probably the best place for it long term. (also see above comment on separating the old Gen1 info from the new Gen2 info in the repo).
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

Also a question I keep forgetting - does your version take current from the Volt BMS or from the current sensor? I'd prefer if it got it from the BMS over CAN, as I've had issues with wiring up the current sensors from my Gen1 pack.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by amsmntparks »

Ya, the VoltBMSV2.ino is what you want to build. Make sure you're on the Gen2Voltage branch of the repo. I'll cleanup the documentation and do a writeup once I get it to the point where it's "working." I honestly didn't think anyone else would ever see this!
Let me know once you find the details from the Spark and I can take a look too.
Since this is based on the original SimpBMS code, it tries to read from the current sensor they sell. I've seen a video where someone replaces the stock current sensor with the Simp model and it didn't look too bad, but I'd also like to get the readings from the stock BMS itself. The problem is that I don't know what CAN messages are for the current. The Open DBC file says it should be on 0x210, but I don't get any of those messages IDs. There are a bunch of other message ids that are coming from the BMS but aren't in the DBC file (0x208, 0x20C, 0x216, 0x260, 0x262, 0x270, 0x272, 0x274). I suspect one of them is the current and the rest are also probably useful, but I don't know what they're trying to say.
I could try to run a wire with current through the current sensor and see if I can get one of those messages to change. Reverse engineer the message the hard way. I'm really hoping someone will just publish an updated DBC though.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:24 pm Ya, the VoltBMSV2.ino is what you want to build. Make sure you're on the Gen2Voltage branch of the repo.
Ahh I missed that, I was still on the master. I'm still learning the ins and outs of Git.
amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:24 pm I honestly didn't think anyone else would ever see this!
Well I truly appreciate you sharing!
amsmntparks wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:24 pm Let me know once you find the details from the Spark and I can take a look too.
Since this is based on the original SimpBMS code, it tries to read from the current sensor they sell. I've seen a video where someone replaces the stock current sensor with the Simp model and it didn't look too bad, but I'd also like to get the readings from the stock BMS itself. The problem is that I don't know what CAN messages are for the current. The Open DBC file says it should be on 0x210, but I don't get any of those messages IDs. There are a bunch of other message ids that are coming from the BMS but aren't in the DBC file (0x208, 0x20C, 0x216, 0x260, 0x262, 0x270, 0x272, 0x274). I suspect one of them is the current and the rest are also probably useful, but I don't know what they're trying to say.
From this forum https://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/vi ... php?t=9180it appears that the Spark and Bolt PIDs are the same. I think it then stands to reason that the Volt PIDs should be the same.

I'm not sure if it was already linked in this thread, but this link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =946940079 has the Bolt PIDs.

To be honest I'm a bit lost on converting the PID format to the 0x## format, but this should be a start.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by amsmntparks »

That's super interesting. I had seen that list of PIDs before, but I'm not sure it will do me much good. I'm not any kind of expert on the OBDII protocol, but from what I understand it's more of a query/response setup. You'd need to figure the right format to send the query and then monitor for the response coming back with the correct header/ID. The current code is designed to just parse the messages as they come in in any order and I don't think there's any direct connection between the PIDs from OBDII and the CAN messages from the BECM. I could be totally wrong about all of that, but either way I'm also at a loss as to how to get useful info via OBDII in my current setup.
The only thing the original code sent out, with the exception of communicating with chargers and displays, was 0x200. I don't think that corresponds to anything related to OBDII, but I have no idea what else it was supposed to be doing either.
There's a thread where some folks were working on deciphering the rest of the CAN messages from the BECM, but I don't think they finished it: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... 098/page-2
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

amsmntparks wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 2:19 am That's super interesting. I had seen that list of PIDs before, but I'm not sure it will do me much good. I'm not any kind of expert on the OBDII protocol, but from what I understand it's more of a query/response setup. You'd need to figure the right format to send the query and then monitor for the response coming back with the correct header/ID. The current code is designed to just parse the messages as they come in in any order and I don't think there's any direct connection between the PIDs from OBDII and the CAN messages from the BECM. I could be totally wrong about all of that, but either way I'm also at a loss as to how to get useful info via OBDII in my current setup.
The only thing the original code sent out, with the exception of communicating with chargers and displays, was 0x200. I don't think that corresponds to anything related to OBDII, but I have no idea what else it was supposed to be doing either.
There's a thread where some folks were working on deciphering the rest of the CAN messages from the BECM, but I don't think they finished it: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... 098/page-2
Yeah I'll keep digging to see if I can find anything useful. I thought I got close today but no luck.

One question/clarification:
The original SimpBMS had two modes, that found SOC differently - One mode that used Ah counting and one that used voltage. I presume that in your version you coded voltage mode to just take SOC from the BECM CAN messages. Is that correct?
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by amsmntparks »

I just dug into that a little bit and none of my changes should affect the way the SOC is calculated. You can change the SIMP configuration to use either voltage based SOC or the current sensor based SOC. Assuming it worked before, it will probably still work.
That being said... I did notice that the way it was figuring out how many modules were found was based on getting the temperature for the modules. In the new pack the number of temperature sensors isn't the same as the number of modules, so I just converted the number of modules to be based on how many modules have been assigned a voltage. I get the feeling that the "version 2" I forked off of wasn't entirely complete, but then again neither is mine.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

amsmntparks wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:56 am I just dug into that a little bit and none of my changes should affect the way the SOC is calculated. You can change the SIMP configuration to use either voltage based SOC or the current sensor based SOC. Assuming it worked before, it will probably still work.
That being said... I did notice that the way it was figuring out how many modules were found was based on getting the temperature for the modules. In the new pack the number of temperature sensors isn't the same as the number of modules, so I just converted the number of modules to be based on how many modules have been assigned a voltage. I get the feeling that the "version 2" I forked off of wasn't entirely complete, but then again neither is mine.
Ok, I got things turned around in my head. It looks like, from the opendbc file, we do have pack current and voltage messages from the BECM, but we're still looking for the SOC CAN message, is that correct?
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by amsmntparks »

Sort of... the DBC file has those messages defined, but I've never seen them come through. The messages I do get are:
0x200 - "Module 1" voltages
0x202 - "Module 2" voltages
0x204 - "Module 3" voltages
0x206 - "Module 4" voltages
0x208 - ???
0x20C - ???
0x216 - ???
0x260 - ???
0x262 - ???
0x270 - ???
0x272 - ???
0x274 - ???
0x302 - Battery temp
0x460 - Coolant temps
There's some there that I don't what they mean, and there's some that are shown in the DBC that I've never seen.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

amsmntparks wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:21 am Sort of... the DBC file has those messages defined, but I've never seen them come through. The messages I do get are:
0x200 - "Module 1" voltages
0x202 - "Module 2" voltages
0x204 - "Module 3" voltages
0x206 - "Module 4" voltages
0x208 - ???
0x20C - ???
0x216 - ???
0x260 - ???
0x262 - ???
0x270 - ???
0x272 - ???
0x274 - ???
0x302 - Battery temp
0x460 - Coolant temps
There's some there that I don't what they mean, and there's some that are shown in the DBC that I've never seen.
Got it. I'm hoping to do the entire battery swap this weekend, and then I can start doing some logging. That should help us figure out which (if any) include things like SOC and current.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by amsmntparks »

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:57 am Got it. I'm hoping to do the entire battery swap this weekend, and then I can start doing some logging. That should help us figure out which (if any) include things like SOC and current.
I wasn't able to get into the current or SOC messages from the BECM, but I was able to iron out some issues with getting the Simp to work. I pushed changes to my repo, but the biggest issues were: setting the CAN speed to 500k, configuring some of the battery parameters as best I could figure, and skipping the last bit of the main loop that was handling some charger communications. I'm not using the charger yet, so it's a problem for future me. That section of the loop was doing something that prevented the watchdog from updating (was it hanging the main loop?) so the Simp would just keep resetting itself over and over again. Either way, I commented it out and I can see all the voltages now.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

amsmntparks wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:46 am I wasn't able to get into the current or SOC messages from the BECM, but I was able to iron out some issues with getting the Simp to work. I pushed changes to my repo, but the biggest issues were: setting the CAN speed to 500k, configuring some of the battery parameters as best I could figure, and skipping the last bit of the main loop that was handling some charger communications. I'm not using the charger yet, so it's a problem for future me. That section of the loop was doing something that prevented the watchdog from updating (was it hanging the main loop?) so the Simp would just keep resetting itself over and over again. Either way, I commented it out and I can see all the voltages now.
Great, thank you.

I was able to get the new packs in the car this weekend, but didn't finish the install. Planning to do some work in the evenings this week to get it done.
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

Ok one question before I update my simpbms; according to git, the hex files was last updated months ago, but the ino file was updated last week. Did the hex file get updated when you made your changes?

Edit to add second question: Are you/we using the CAN bus or the GM LAN serial bus?
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Re: Volt gen2 BMS

Post by P.S.Mangelsdorf »

Alright so I'm plodding forward on my install, and should be at the point of testing things tonight or tomorrow (though I do still have the questions above)

I know we need 12V+, 12V-, and Run/Ignition, but I was wondering has anyone tested what some of the other pins do/can do? Looking at the diagram there is:
Accessory Wake Up Serial Data 2
High Voltage Energy Management Communication Control

I'm wondering if perhaps the later would wake up comms without going into run, such as when charging. Has anyone tried this?
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