RWD reduction box

Nissan Leaf/e-NV200 drive stack topics
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

I've been considering using the first reduction stage of the Leaf gearbox as the basis for a rear wheel drive gearbox.

It appears that the gear driven from the input pinion is splined to its shaft, so it should be relatively simple to machine a new output shaft for it.

I'm hoping that the ratio changes between the Gen 1 gearbox and the Gen 2 were achieved by shifting the pitch diameters and the shaft centres are identical.

Gen 1 gears 17:31 / 17:74
Gen 2 gears 17:32 / 17:75

At the moment I have a Gen1 gearbox, but the Gen2 ratio looks a better match for my 4.1 final drive.
zippy500
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:42 am
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by zippy500 »

I have some of the internals of a gen2 box if they are the same
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

zippy500 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:57 pm I have some of the internals of a gen2 box if they are the same
I'd certainly be interested in the input and second gear shafts.
zippy500
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:42 am
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by zippy500 »

parts I have.

Send me a PM if your intrested
Attachments
gear.jpg
StenOrl
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:52 pm

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by StenOrl »

Hi
do you sell a conversion from a Leaf motor to a transmission?
I have a Leaf EM57 motor, but there is no transition
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

StenOrl wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:36 pm do you sell a conversion from a Leaf motor to a transmission?
No, I don't.

I'm looking into the idea of using parts of the Leaf transaxle to make a reduction drive to replace the original gearbox in rear wheel drive vehicles.

Thanks to zippy500, I have a set of gears and as I thought, the intermediate shaft input gear is splined and can easily be removed.
S1770008.JPG
I'll have to make a new shaft, splined to take the gear and a new housing, but I think this will work as a RWD reduction drive.
S1770009.JPG
Ratio is 32/17 or 1.882:1, which should work OK with the 4.1 diff ratio in my Lotus. That's taller gearing than the Leaf final drive, but the rolling radius is a little smaller too.
Leafs with the EM61 motor have slightly taller gearing of 31/17 or 1.824.
User avatar
Tremelune
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:07 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by Tremelune »

This would be to replace something like the $3,000 2:1 TorqueBox?

How would the motor -> gearbox -> driveshaft coupling work?
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

Tremelune wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:18 pm How would the motor -> gearbox -> driveshaft coupling work?
The Leaf motor would connect to the gearbox via the original input spline and gear.

I haven't decided the output, but I may just replicate the standard Toyota W58 sliding spline for my use in the Lotus.
User avatar
Tremelune
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:07 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by Tremelune »

Anything that would replace the $3,000 TorqueBox would be sweet. It's already painful to mate a Leaf motor to a manual gearbox, and then you're dragging all that around...
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by Bratitude »

SciroccoEV, any more development here?

I’m in the process of making some 930 stub flanges for the leaf gearbox, next phase would be halving the gear reduction to something more along the lines of 4:1 for rwd/ 4wd applications.
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

Bratitude wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:59 pm SciroccoEV, any more development here?

I’m in the process of making some 930 stub flanges for the leaf gearbox, next phase would be halving the gear reduction to something more along the lines of 4:1 for rwd/ 4wd applications.
Very little progress at the moment. My Scirocco was meant to go to a local vehicle restoration business, but lockdown disrupted that plan and I'm doing the restoration myself, so the Lotus Excel conversion has barely been touched. I have talked to a couple of friends about exactly how to tackle the gearbox and both have been very encouraging. One used to make replacement internals for the infamous Lotus "Queerboxes" and the other specialises in running transmission simulations (mostly for OEM EV projects these days), so I have pretty good sources.
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by Bratitude »

Hey has one one confirmed if the gen1 vs gen2 gearbox’s gear centre's are the same and just the gear pitch is different?

Paul did the gen2 gears fit in the Gen 1 box?
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

Bratitude wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:17 am Hey has one one confirmed if the gen1 vs gen2 gearbox’s gear centre's are the same and just the gear pitch is different?

Paul did the gen2 gears fit in the Gen 1 box?
Still not confirmed, but it would be standard practice. The gear pitch and diameter would be the same and a technique called profile shifting used.
stuartd
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:53 am

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by stuartd »

I’ve been working on this and had some ideas use the original gearbox case bit bulky I know
But it’s already there I’ve machined off the brush carrier housing for now which gives a flat area to bolts to adapter plate to bolt to gearbox transfer box whatever you need
The output shaft needs to be bigger and longer I’m going for 35mm in diameter bought a 72 x 35 x 17 bearing to go on the output end of the shaft that’s coming
And I’m trying to get my head around machining double spline shaft to go from the inner gear to output splines
Going to do a video on this hopefully out middle of this week

Stuart
JamesWLG
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by JamesWLG »

I think I might try this reduction gearing idea myself, when I eventually get round the drive line construction.

For calculating the motor offset from the prop shaft, and ultimately if I will have room in the transmission tunnel. What is the distance between the gear shaft centres?
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

80mm by Mk1 eyeball
JamesWLG
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by JamesWLG »

SciroccoEV wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:10 am 80mm by Mk1 eyeball
Thanks that's really helpful. I think it might just fit.
User avatar
SciroccoEV
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Luton UK
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by SciroccoEV »

I was talking to Chris from Zero EV, about the reduction box they were testing to fit the Hyper 9. The first example was similar to the Torque Trends gearbox, but the epicyclic design was too noisy and generated too much heat. They've now found an existing reduction gearbox design that they could have modified to make it suitable for EV applications. It's officially rated at 280Nm, but Chris thinks it can take a fair bit more and said the cost was about £1600.

With a different coupler and adaptor, it could be mated to a Leaf motor.
Zero EV gearbox 1.jpg
Zero EV gearbox 2.jpg
JamesWLG
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by JamesWLG »

I just heard about this myself. It definitely sound interesting and they have two ratio options 2:1 and 1.75:1
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by Bratitude »

I got adapter plates with the NEMA b face pattern, so that’s covered.
what’s the coupler look like?

This looks like the tail end of some transmission
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
JamesWLG
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by JamesWLG »

I've emailed them for more info on this and one of their new motors.

It probably is an adaptation of a transmission output. And there could be some sort of changeable coupler in there as the hyper9 and their new motors have different shafts.

I'm hoping it has a speedo drive also.
JamesWLG
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 3 times

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by JamesWLG »

After an overly long email chain I have some info in the ZeroEV gearboxes and Zonic motors. Let me know if you are interested and I'll share.
remy_martian
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:44 pm

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by remy_martian »

Yes. Please spill the beans on that reducer.
Friends don't let software friends do hardware design
User avatar
Bratitude
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:35 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by Bratitude »

JamesWLG wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:39 am After an overly long email chain I have some info in the ZeroEV gearboxes and Zonic motors. Let me know if you are interested and I'll share.

Yes, what tail section is this from what is it? Who makes it?
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
User avatar
janosch
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 am
Location: London, UK
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 54 times
Contact:

Re: RWD reduction box

Post by janosch »

We have punched a hole through the Leaf gearbox, so we are not using its differential and connect the middle cog to the taxi differential.

This made us end up with about a fixed 8:1 reduction which has held very well for more than a thousand miles now.

I am not very mechanical, they talked a bunch about the oil in it, and something about brushes and seals but that is all solved it doesn't leak.
Attachments
Screenshot from 2022-05-13 12-47-51.png
Post Reply