openinverter forum

Hi! My name is Andrew and I thought i'd make a short introduction since i've been lurking for a bit now.

I went to Western Washington University's Vehicle Research Institute, where I helped create this carbon-monocoque 100mpg+ car. I was mostly responsible for transplanting a Honda Insight hybrid system into this mid-engine science project. So, DIY EVing is not completely foreign to me, but I've not ever gone beyond forklift level technology. Today I work as a BEV Power Electronics Manager for a Global HD Truck OEM.

On to the project -
I'm a bit of a VW fanboy and much prefer the MK1 and MK3 platforms. Since the ID3 will not be sold in North America, I have to take things into my own hands.

The project I'll be documenting in this thread is the Leaf-ification of my 1980 Rabbit Pickup, aka "Caddy" outside of NA. I'm hoping this leads to the electrification of my other MK1 VWs in the future, and maybe even my Golf Harlequin??

The truck: The Powertrain (in the back of my Model Y): My clown car:

Welcome!

Awesome project, mini trucks I think are a great conversion platform. small and light, tons of battery space, and suspension to support.

there a yellow patina caddy in the bushes down the road from me... I’m eyeing it for a next conversion.

Interested to see how you go about yours!

what is your plan/ goal for the truck?

Bratitude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:00 pm Welcome!

Awesome project, mini trucks I think are a great conversion platform. small and light, tons of battery space, and suspension to support.

there a yellow patina caddy in the bushes down the road from me... I’m eyeing it for a next conversion.

Interested to see how you go about yours!

what is your plan/ goal for the truck?

My plan is to get something going that's cheap and simple, to start, then maybe go for more power later? Not sure if that will even be necessary. Battery space is plentiful, though i want to keep the truck looking completely normal from the exterior. So batteries will be mounted beneath the bed. The nice thing about the MK1 VW platform, is that i won't need power steering or power brakes (whence upgraded), which saves quite a bit of space and complexity - as well as auxiliary power draws.

I'm not looking for a lot of range, maybe 50-60mi or so, but i'd like to be able to use public chargers. This is why the Leaf PDU is so attractive as an all-in-one solution. But I'm finding the charging function is most easily implemented using Leaf Cells and BMS.

cant complain for battery space with that flatbed could potencially use the long model 3 modules, best of luck !

vwbrady wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:32 pm

Bratitude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:00 pm Welcome!

Awesome project, mini trucks I think are a great conversion platform. small and light, tons of battery space, and suspension to support.

there a yellow patina caddy in the bushes down the road from me... I’m eyeing it for a next conversion.

Interested to see how you go about yours!

what is your plan/ goal for the truck?

My plan is to get something going that's cheap and simple, to start, then maybe go for more power later? Not sure if that will even be necessary. Battery space is plentiful, though i want to keep the truck looking completely normal from the exterior. So batteries will be mounted beneath the bed. The nice thing about the MK1 VW platform, is that i won't need power steering or power brakes (whence upgraded), which saves quite a bit of space and complexity - as well as auxiliary power draws.

I'm not looking for a lot of range, maybe 50-60mi or so, but i'd like to be able to use public chargers. This is why the Leaf PDU is so attractive as an all-in-one solution. But I'm finding the charging function is most easily implemented using Leaf Cells and BMS.

Awesome. Full Gen2 leaf stack? Hope it fits! keeping leaf gear box as well? These trucks are more like cars (much like my brat) but this is fwd.

The transvers layout looks tight with the original vw gearbox

TFirenza wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:38 pm cant complain for battery space with that flatbed could potencially use the long model 3 modules, best of luck !

my intent is to put whatever batteries i use beneath the bed, so that the truck appears to not be an EV. there's actually a lot of space under there. my target pack size is roughly 25kWh

Bratitude wrote:
Awesome. Full Gen2 leaf stack? Hope it fits! keeping leaf gear box as well? These trucks are more like cars (much like my brat) but this is fwd.

The transvers layout looks tight with the original vw gearbox

yeah, the truck is really just a uni-body rabbit with a bed instead of a backseat and hatch.

I'll post an image of a standard 4cyl vw block next to the Leaf stack, but the Leaf is shorter in length (or transverse width?) so i do not anticipate issues. The real dimension i need to be concerned with is the height.

The reason i want to retain the VW transaxle is to keep mechanical integration EASY, and to give a little bit of raw HMI to the driving experience. Also, the cab will still have the shifter which will add to the non-EV look.

light update:
Asked my wrecker for another Leaf "engine assembly" since they're SO cheap. Just to have around for a possible future project.

Also ordered my VCM Kit from EV BMW

Something I've been pondering lately: Could i build my own pack with the same number of cells as the Leaf, but with less capacity, and utilize the Nissan BMS? This may enable utilization of the Charger with less difficulty. But would the Nissan BMS calculate SOH and throw faults?

here is the length of a basic watercooled VW inline 4 on a stand in my garage:
here is the Leaf PDM:
The leaf motor is much shorter. This is the part that has to fit between the rails so it's mostly what matters. The Power Electronics atop the motor are a bit wider at 500mm or so. in the end, the transverse width of this package will be less than original.

vwbrady wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm light update:
Asked my wrecker for another Leaf "engine assembly" since they're SO cheap. Just to have around for a possible future project.

Also ordered my VCM Kit from EV BMW

Something I've been pondering lately: Could i build my own pack with the same number of cells as the Leaf, but with less capacity, and utilize the Nissan BMS? This may enable utilization of the Charger with less difficulty. But would the Nissan BMS calculate SOH and throw faults?

I know a guy that did just that. But he took 288 LG high capacity cells and connected them in original Leaf box. He wired the BMS and sealed the box. It was made at the time of the 24kWh Leaf and it is suppose to still work. He doesnt like to talk about it though. I dont know why...

So there is at least one system out there to prove a point.

arber333 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:07 pm

I know a guy that did just that. But he took 288 LG high capacity cells and connected them in original Leaf box. He wired the BMS and sealed the box. It was made at the time of the 24kWh Leaf and it is suppose to still work. He doesnt like to talk about it though. I dont know why...

So there is at least one system out there to prove a point.

very good news! I will likely be on the look out for a 2013 Leaf BMS in the future then. Thanks for the reply, Arber!

obligatory Leaf PDM disassembly pic:
Now, on to modelling up an adapter. Does anyone have a drawing or model of the Gen 2 Leaf motor mounting holes?

As well, I have a Geo Tracker clutch friction disc in the mail for the motor output that i will be cannibalizing.

Found a 3d scan of a Leaf motor online. Need to figure out how to scale it to real life dimensions and the definition isn't great, but it's cool to see! Also found a pdf of a VW I4 engine with the trans mounting pattern. I'll likely only model and CNC the VW side, then do the Leaf pattern by hand. I'm already thinking i'll need to space the trans away from the motor a good bit since the bell housing is a bit taller than the leaf motor will allow. We'll see.

Hi,

maybe you want to consider a solution like i came up with:

My Toyota GT86 Project: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=326


Spacer rings out of 8mm Aluminum with 2 adaptor plates

Early 90s Geo Tracker friction disc arrived. Not a great fit. It is a 7/8" 20 tooth spline.

The fiat discs others use, i don't think i have easy access to in the US.

vwbrady wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:31 pm Early 90s Geo Tracker friction disc arrived. Not a great fit. It is a 7/8" 20 tooth spline.

The fiat discs others use, i don't think i have easy access to in the US.

You can get Suzuki Samurai disk splines. Arlin said they are a bit tighter fit than Fiat.

arber333 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:06 pm

vwbrady wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:31 pm Early 90s Geo Tracker friction disc arrived. Not a great fit. It is a 7/8" 20 tooth spline.

The fiat discs others use, i don't think i have easy access to in the US.

You can get Suzuki Samurai disk splines. Arlin said they are a bit tighter fit than Fiat.

So, the Samurai disc shows the same spline dimensions as the Tracker. I'll order the samurai disc and check it out with hopes that their descriptions aren't really precise.

Geo Tracker:
Samurai:

I think we should make a sticky post in the forum. I'm through all this. I have videos on youtube. And you can read it in my threat (Toyota GT86).

NONE of them are really a good fit. The best fit is the volvo clutch disc. Everything else won't work for a long time in my opinion.
Usually there should be absolutely no play, as on a original gearbox and clutch plate or as on the leaf spline with the leaf gearbox part.

I was at a local CNC shop with the Leaf Gearbox Spline to copy it. I will get an offer next week. If it is reasonable i will order 50pc of the adapter splines and weld them into Rotex GS38 couplers

I've got my batteries on order from www.batteryhookup.com and a spline adapter from Bratitude (I had tried 4 clutch friction discs already).

I decided to go with 6x Mercedes 48V (L09-1) mild hybrid modules due to their small size + individual packaging and decent capacity of 880Wh. These will be easy to locate in various location, only requiring bracket fabrication.

$113/kWh isn't bad at all
I will need to remove the integrated 48/12v converter and BMS and then somehow add a Nissan Leaf BMS onto the 96 individual cells. With a about 5kWh, my goal is clearly not range.

Are the 5kwh due to total weight of the build or budget?
You are planning on using a Leaf setup. Could you post another picture of original gearbox. Trying to see if a Gen2 transaxle could work before purchasing Mk1 cabriolet... Apparently it might have to be turned around due to knocking up against radiator. Thanks

vwbrady wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm light update:
Asked my wrecker for another Leaf "engine assembly" since they're SO cheap. Just to have around for a possible future project.

How cheap is SO cheap? They seem to be in the $1500 AUD ($1055 USD) to $2000 AUD ($1407 USD) range for the drive pack (motor/inverter/charger for the AZE0 pack).

Jamie

jalovick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:06 am How cheap is SO cheap? They seem to be in the $1500 AUD ($1055 USD) to $2000 AUD ($1407 USD) range for the drive pack (motor/inverter/charger for the AZE0 pack).

Jamie

I'm paying $350 USD for what you see below.

vwbrady wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:57 pm I'm paying $350 USD for what you see below.
IMG_20200911_084741.jpg

That is cheap! I may have to talk to some freight forwarders...

Jamie

RetroZero wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:24 am Are the 5kwh due to total weight of the build or budget?
You are planning on using a Leaf setup. Could you post another picture of original gearbox. Trying to see if a Gen2 transaxle could work before purchasing Mk1 cabriolet... Apparently it might have to be turned around due to knocking up against radiator. Thanks

turns out there is a mistake in the listing for the batteries. they are 12S modules but they mentioned you need 6 to reach 350V, which doesn't add up. so it turns out i'll actually be using 8 modules which gets me about 7kWh. or somewhere around 35mi of range (@200Wh/mi), which is good for me.

I'm using the original 4spd VW 020 transaxle, that comes in every FWD 4cyl VW up to ≈1997. I have AL plate coming from 3dhubs for the Leaf motor and the VW transaxle. I should be mocking this up at some point during Q1 2021

jalovick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:00 pm

vwbrady wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:57 pm I'm paying $350 USD for what you see below.
IMG_20200911_084741.jpg

That is cheap! I may have to talk to some freight forwarders...

Jamie

there are TONS of wrecked Leafs in the US. Batteries are hard to come by cheap due to DIY powerwall people but the PDMs, if you find a high volume + low educated wrecker, are plentiful. I think i mentioned this somewhere else, use www.car-part.com and search "engine assembly"