openinverter forum

So a recent problem with a buyer (now a paypal claim) indicates I need to tighten up on my terms of sale , item descriptions on the webshop etc. I had thought the videos and forum links and github covered this but not so it seems. Would appreciate it greatly if I could get some help on this even just some wording I can copy and paste. Please no leaglise just some plain english. Thanks:)

One thing i did notice when browsing the shop was that the price quoted in some of the descriptions was lower than the actual list price of the item.

Ah. Could you give me a link so I can fix?

Why would you put the price into the description?

How much is it including tax?

How much is it including shipping to xxx?

How much is it including express shipping?

How much is it including cheap shipping?

Hence : Price is xxx Euros including worldwide shipping. No tax or other surcharges apply.

It was this one but i think that is the only one looking back.

https://www.evbmw.com/index.php/evbmw-w ... cm-partial

Fixed. Many thanks.

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:26 pm Hence : Price is xxx Euros including worldwide shipping. No tax or other surcharges apply.

yes I was just aiming at the redundancy as the price is already listed with the product. so "Price includes worldwide shipping. No tax or other surcharges apply." would leave less room for mistakes

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:58 am Please no leaglise just some plain english.

Here is my (slightly tongue in cheek) suggestion:

"No support expressed or implied. Not guaranteed to work in your application. Does not include safeguards against your ignorance; you can/may destroy other components. Requires thinking for yourself. Recommended for adult use only. If it feels like these clauses are directed at you, they are. Save us all some time and don’t buy it."

Most hardware or modifications for cars here in the states come with a general disclaimer that they are for off-highway use only. This generally puts the liability for anything that happens on the purchaser. Say for example someone shorts their throttle signal wire to 5v and plows into a school bus, this provides at least a layer of separation that these products were not "intended" to be used on public highways.

jon volk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:59 pm Most hardware or modifications for cars here in the states come with a general disclaimer that they are for off-highway use only. This generally puts the liability for anything that happens on the purchaser. Say for example someone shorts their throttle signal wire to 5v and plows into a school bus, this provides at least a layer of separation that these products were not "intended" to be used on public highways.

I've also commonly seen variations on "this product may not be legal for highway use in your jurisdiction" to get across a similar point. Clears the supplier without necessarily putting the user in a bind for using it.

EDIT: Not a lawyer, just my understanding of the phrasing.

johu wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:42 pm

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:26 pm Hence : Price is xxx Euros including worldwide shipping. No tax or other surcharges apply.

yes I was just aiming at the redundancy as the price is already listed with the product. so "Price includes worldwide shipping. No tax or other surcharges apply." would leave less room for mistakes

Just did a skim through the whole site, any listing with a price in the description appears to match the other two price fields on the page at the time of this reply.

By placing an order on the site you agree to the following terms.

The components in shop are supplied as is, the seller is not responsible for loss or damage of property while using the components. There is no warranty on parts. All sales are FINAL, no returns for any parts in any case, other than of a wrong/faulty part was shipped.

.. i found out hoppos (hydraulic suspension company)
https://www.hopposonline.com/shipping-returns/
Has good example of disclaimer that we are just selling parts for show use.. I think everyone knows they will be used on the roads.

I like PS.Mangelsdorf's idea of saying it may not be legal to use.

Thanks folks.

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:55 pm "No support expressed or implied. Not guaranteed to work in your application. Does not include safeguards against your ignorance; you can/may destroy other components. Requires thinking for yourself. Recommended for adult use only. If it feels like these clauses are directed at you, they are. Save us all some time and don’t buy it."

Simply FANTASTIC!!!

Now to clean the keyboard of coffee

An actual lawyer should do this, but then I should be paying an electrical engineer for all their actual engineering on all these projects rather than them almost being sold for cost.

Perhaps a section about how these are developer tools intended for research, and any use in an actual vehicle will require much further design and engineering, they have been tested on a bench but that is not a guarantee that they will work in your application without further work. Blah blah.

I think everyone in the DIY community will know to read that as "Don't be a jerk, and I am not responsible for your failures, but these should be pretty much plug and play", without being entitled to that.

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:50 pm An actual lawyer should do this,

Not to be argumentative, but what works in the EU will likely not in the USA or AU, let alone JP, CH or RU

ZooKeeper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:21 pm

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:50 pm An actual lawyer should do this,

Not to be argumentative, but what works in the EU will likely not in the USA or AU, let alone JP, CH or RU

It does not and while writing arbitrary words may make the author feel good it will not have the desired effect. We already have the opinion of a US attorney (here) and the 'community' should resource proper legal advice so that everyone contributing to Open Inverter is protected.

Ok thanks everyone I'm locking this thread now as the request is answered.