openinverter forum

My Beetle is a 2003. Just insurance then get MOT as electric (had expired), sent V5 off, DVLA inspected, then the attached letter. Is the abridged version. In reality, I've tried to send the V5 of 5 or 6 times to get them to change it to electric, only the most recent resulted in inspection. I've been driving it over a year without issues, had 2 x MOTs, insured and renewal etc.
As far as the DVLA are concerned it's not radically altered so they don't seem to care beyond that. Just tax it as a petrol seem to be their only concern.

Well do realize that from a registration and vehicle identity perspective it's not correctly registered. So for export its useless.
Albeit you can't change the fuel type; you do want engine numbers to match, pistons removed etc. and you might want to try to get a note on the V5 saying: "converted to electric".

IMHO it's the least they should do to have a bit of proper administration.

Not a great deal more I can do. I've tried with them 5 or 6 times, written to my MP multiple times (he's written to the DVLA), encouraged others to do so at every opportunity.
Had it in a national newspaper (http://web.archive.org/web/202206111509 ... ax-breaks/).
Brought it up with Fully Charged. In touch with Warren Philips at EVA England, they writing to the DVLA. Brought it up with Fair Charge (Quentin Willson’s campaign, they writing to the DVLA, https://twitter.com/fairchargeuk/status ... 0688219137).
I tell anyone that'll listen when they ask about the car when I'm charging or at EV events etc.
DVLA will not budge until someone with the power to tell them to do so, does.

Pohhh hats off for that marathon...

Jonr wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:52 am Has anyone converted a car in the UK of MY between 2001 and 2017 then got it road legal? If so what was required and have you fully recovered?

As I said previously, a modified car is already road legal. Converting it does not change this fact as long as you don't modify the chassis. When you inform the DVLA, they may send somebody to inspect the car to confirm that the chassis has not been modified.

Like any other modification, it is necessary to inform your insurance company and in the case of a conversion you will almost definitely need a specialist insurance company.

My post-2001 converted car is currently on the road. I have informed the DVLA but haven't heard back from them yet. It is road legal, but may be subject to an inspection.

Usually this isn't a problem, but you may need to demonstrate that the chassis is original.

Thanks for this, it's genuinely really usefl to know MY 2001 - 2017 are viable candidates in the UK.

If I pick a donor in this age range, I just need to find a version of the desired model with the lowest tax band on ther basis DVLA won't change it once its an EV

Jonr wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:24 pm If I pick a donor in this age range, I just need to find a version of the desired model with the lowest tax band on ther basis DVLA won't change it once its an EV

That's exactly it. There's no difference in the process post-2001, but you will have to pay tax, so start with the lowest CO2 emissions model you can

I informed the DVLA of my (2001) conversion 6 weeks ago. I finally got a response yesterday. It was essentially just asking for information I'd already provided. As expected, they are primarily just checking whether the chassis has been modified, and hence whether an IVA is required.

They've also asked for before and after photos of the vehicle, and confirmation of the chassis number. Nothing too onerous, but just another reminder to everyone: do not modify your chassis in any way!

I've send off the details they requested, so waiting again. I won't be expecting free tax, just making sure I do everything by the book.

I wonder what DLVA will make of my conversion. I’m hoping to convert my historic Carlton Commando kit car to electric. There’s nothing in their guidance about doing an ev conversion on a previously converted vehicle. Although I did the work myself, it’s nearly 30 years ago and I can’t remember exactly which DVLA process I went through then. I think it was the Kit Converted Vehicles process. I was able to keep the registration number of the donor car although the kit included a new chassis for which they issued a new chassis number. I guess the rules were different back then. On my V5 the details are for a Carlton Commando RV first registered in 1979 but for the first 12 of those years it was a Ford Cortina.

So when it comes to notifying the DVLA of my ev conversion do I have unaltered chassis or not? I don’t have the original Cortina chassis from 1979 but I will have the original unaltered Carlton Commando chassis from 1992 when the V5 was reissued. If the Carlton chassis is counted as original I’m OK as I’ve also got original suspension, axles and steering.

I wrote to DVLA giving them my registration and asking which process I should follow. They’ve replied with what looks like the standard information about not altering the chassis and retaining at least two original components, but they didn’t specifically address the previous conversion. I don’t want to get as far as the inspection and have my V5 pulled. I’d rather not do the conversion.

Let me know if you’ve heard of anyone doing an EV conversion on a previously converted/altered vehicle.

Don't think anyone has done that yet. I originally thought about the kit car approach (Haynes 7 with an mx5 donor, then convert after..but I ended up with the mx5) I would play it safe and make everything just bolt onto existing points (i am using the existing engine mounts rubber things to play extra safe) that way you could quickly revert back over a weekend if it all went to sh1t. But it would be extremely unlikely as if you follow the simple bolt on approach it would be very easy to argue that it's a simple engine swap.

rstevens81 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:06 am ... I would play it safe and make everything just bolt onto existing points (i am using the existing engine mounts rubber things to play extra safe) that way you could quickly revert back over a weekend if it all went to sh1t. ...

I can do that no problem. I'm just worried that an inspector will judge that the Carlton chassis itself a modification from the original and will send me down the IVA route.

What is considered the chassis? are sub frames considered chasis if the diff is mounted in those?

EV_Builder wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:09 pm What is considered the chassis? are sub frames considered chasis if the diff is mounted in those?

Follow this in black and white terms and no conversion gets passed.

EV_Builder wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:09 pm What is considered the chassis? are sub frames considered chasis if the diff is mounted in those?

Annoyingly I've never been able to find any law that defines what constitutes:
1) The chassis
2) A modification

I strongly suspect subframes are considered part of the chassis, and would definitely always attempt to use the existing gearbox/differential mounting points. I was lucky that this was possible in my car, even though it leaves the SDU hanging rather low to the ground!

I think the thing that's confused most people is what counts as a modification. Can we drill holes? Can we Weld things on? Can be glue things on?!

I really wish the DVLA (I'm not really clear why the DVLA and not the DVSA are responsible here) would publish more explicit guidelines.

I've seen this list of Q and A regarding IVA on a few forums (this is the only copy I can find right now). It's not definitive policy, and is a few years old, but still interesting.

https://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php?topic=11674.0

Pete9008 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:22 pm I've seen this list of Q and A regarding IVA on a few forums (this is the only copy I can find right now). It's not definitive policy, and is a few years old, but still interesting.

https://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php?topic=11674.0

Thanks, this is an excellent Q&A. To me, this is the critical part that we need to interpret:

It is important that the original chassis structure is retained unmodified, and while it is acceptable to strengthen areas and include additional brackets or crossmembers, It would be limited to additions within the existing chassis frame structure. Additional chassis structures, i.e. extending the outward parameters of the original chassis structure would be considered a modification.

He clearly states that it is acceptable to "include additional brackets or crossmembers ... within the existing chassis frame structure". Unless I'm missing something fundamental here, this means we *are* allowed to weld new brackets to the inside of the chassis. This seems at odds with the DVLA's interpretation, that welding such a bracket constitutes a modification. So I'm really no clearer.

The same questions is discussed here: https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/20 ... nge?page=1

Well my car will be a good showcase to answer many of these questions when it is inspected by the DVLA. It is modified in the following ways:

1. Chassis rails drilled for a new gearbox mount
2. Boot floor replaced to accommodate a battery box.
3. Rear subframe added new diff mount
4. Front subframe added new motor mounts
5. Various small holes drilled to the sheet metal for mounting brackets.

Any one of these modifications could count as 'radical' alteration...

I'll go on the journey with DVLA and see where it leads, but my suspicion is that it will need re-registering at which point the project for me will likely be over and I'll move on.

steveknox wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:45 am I'll go on the journey with DVLA and see where it leads, but my suspicion is that it will need re-registering at which point the project for me will likely be over and I'll move on.

Good luck, and please let us know what happens. It’d also be good to hear how mtrehy gets on with MIRA and the IVA route.

I have written to the DVSA to attempt to clarify this question:

1) Is the quotation above correct in stating that it is acceptable to install a new crossmember or bracket within the existing footprint of the chassis?
2) If it is acceptable to install a new crossmember, how may this be fixed to the existing chassis?
3) Would drilling a hole in the chassis to facilitate the attachment of new parts constitute a modification of the existing structure?
4) Would welding a bracket to the chassis to facilitate the attachment of new parts constitute a modification of the existing structure?
5) Is there any written policy regarding this which could be published to help prevent misunderstandings of the regulations?

Hopefully I get a meaningful reply!

That hole identity thing is such a bullchit from the biggest order...

IMHO the chassis forms the identity and also a modificated one as long as the main part of it still stays original we shouldn't loose an identity.
We loose the homologation and type approval but we shoudn't loose identity.

What means ABS brakes for an IVA route? because in the end going the IVA route might be simpler. A modern vehicle has so many stuff already sorted...
They would simply be tireing themselves checking. In The Netherlands haveing ABS brakes is a pitta because they need to be checked separately and that's expensive. So going the 'new identity route' becomes quickly a nogo route.

In The Netherlands there is 2 thirds rule. 1 of the 3 can be modded to keep identity. Chassis/Frame, Drivetrain/Engine or Body.
But Yes same discussion it's upto the tester to agree on your way of doing suchs drivetrain / engine swaps. With other words don't modificate to much or unnecessary things.

Question, do LPG conversions need holes to be drilled for mounting of the tank and routing LPG lines ?

Perhaps like certified LPG installers who can approve others' work, we need certification for people who can install and approve EV and hybrid conversions ?

DVLA will only apply changes to v5 ... Well they used to (look at my old car gr03vnx) if the installer was registered with uklpga and you got a letter to send in with stamp on it. Yes they do cut holes!

At the moment DVLA are just being a pita ....best joke theory is someone's wife ran away with a guy with a Tesla that's why they hate EVs so much!

DVLA basically want to ban it on grounds of safety because they don't understand it, but don't have laws to do that so they are just awkward.... if they were proactive they would write a specification/publication setting out exactly what you can and cant do.

The short answer at the moment is
(1) buy pre 2001 car (X reg or older)
(2) don't even think of putting bolt or weld onto structure unless you are confident enough to blag it that it was there before from the factory
(3) if you buy a post 2001 car it's basically stuck with its original engine type...although in theory a post 2017 can be changed I suspect excuses with type approval will tie you in knots (my opinion at this stage as 2107 is too new at the moment)

Loophole :
1.convert to LPG cutting all necessary holes and adding brackets
2. convert to EV without adding more holes or brackets

Very expensive loophole...but when DVLA inspect the car after ev they will go thouse aren't original IVA for you.
There is a metro fitted with a leaf motor, and they pulled the registration because the chap put 4 bolt holes in boot to secure the battery!!! Which is lunacy as the DVLA would rather have ineffective or weak structure rather than a couple of bolt holes in the right location

Edit: yes I knew you weren't being serious, but as it stands the DVLA are the authority to say yes/no and they are being militant on no holes/welds even though on a ice car they couldn't care less...
Short answer is they know none of us have the funds to bet our house on red just to get v5 updated

Then you pull out the LPG certificate to explain the holes.

It wasn't a serious suggestion but it does illustrate how ludicrous they are being.