openinverter forum

SciroccoEV wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:09 pm

arber333 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:50 pm I see now yes... but what does Gen2 use for sensors? Are thay also split voltage with 0V center?

Once again; Bipolar, ie voltage output is both positive and negative, 25mv per amp.

And just to try and keep the length of this thread down; https://daycounter.com/Circuits/OpAmp-L ... fter.phtml

And the gen2 current sensors are 15Vpp so you would need to change R2 and R4 in the daycounter schematic to 22k and it would be preferable to use a 1.65V reference. Cheapest option is to use a 3.3V reference followed by a precision 50:50 resistor divider as 1.65V references seem ridiculously expensive.

My board has arrived Thank you, Damien! Now just need to wait when contactors make it to Belarus, as they seems to stuck in Israel for over two weeks already...


Good time and health to everyone !! Konstantin Congratulations on your purchase .. !! May I contact you?

konstantin8818 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:12 pm

RetroZero wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 pm To control the Gen 2 inverter, there is either the non populated Damien board (at present) , and order parts according to BOM, or Rev 3 Inverter kit from Johannes (populated), with wifi included? Starting to get a little overwhelming with everything to anticipate and order, but so exciting too.

Correct.
I want to point out that populated board was sent to me as act of kindness from Damien. (or just to end my whining) As in my black hole country you must to go inside out to find some of the components, and still will not find some of them. I was looking forward to spent few evenings with soldering iron but kind man spared me from that misery
BTW I've started the board from power supply and connected to it via wifi. It survived our postal service and works fine.

Thanks for the info, awesome job getting it connected. Must be a good feeling seeing those LED 's flashing

SciroccoEV wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:18 pm

RetroZero wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 pm Sorry if this is a stupid question....( Been trying to find the info this afternoon),
To control the Gen 2 inverter, there is either the non populated Damien board (at present) , and order parts according to BOM, or Rev 3 Inverter kit from Johannes (populated), with wifi included? Starting to get a little overwhelming with everything to anticipate and order, but so exciting too.

Neither board alone will result in a finalised inverter you can install in a vehicle. The Gen 2 IPM current sensors are bipolar output, so with both boards, you need an interface circuit. With the Blue Pill board you're limited to motors with a quadrature encoder.

Well the plan is Prius Gen 2 and 3 transaxles with the present board set up. I will go wiki hunting instead of asking the obvious question... (give a man a fish ) If I have to order and solder, so be it. With total lock down, might be a while before I can get anything

kiwifiat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:54 am And the gen2 current sensors are 15Vpp so you would need to change R2 and R4 in the daycounter schematic to 22k and it would be preferable to use a 1.65V reference. Cheapest option is to use a 3.3V reference followed by a precision 50:50 resistor divider as 1.65V references seem ridiculously expensive.

The ADC uses the 3V3 supply rail as its reference and the current inputs are assumed (in the code) to be zero at pwm startup.

The offset voltage source need be no more complicated than a 1/2 supply rail divider followed by a buffer amp.

RetroZero wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:27 amI will go wiki hunting instead of asking the obvious question... (give a man a fish )

I wrote 95% of the wiki and all of this current sensor stuff is over my head and not something I'd gotten to in my build yet. You won't find your answer there, or, far as I know, written down anywhere else. This thread contains all the info I've ever seen where it's mentioned. I'm happy to update the wiki if/when I can understand more of a procedure on what to do.

I feel the same - way out of my depth with current sensor stuff. Glad there are some professors of electronics to work on them.

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:45 am

RetroZero wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:27 amI will go wiki hunting instead of asking the obvious question... (give a man a fish )

I wrote 95% of the wiki and all of this current sensor stuff is over my head and not something I'd gotten to in my build yet. You won't find your answer there, or, far as I know, written down anywhere else. This thread contains all the info I've ever seen where it's mentioned. I'm happy to update the wiki if/when I can understand more of a procedure on what to do.

So found out that the resolver is made by Singlsyn - variable reluctance brushless resolver. Doesn't help with knowing if it is linked to a quadrature encoder. If anyone has the answer, I bow in humble gratitude.

RetroZero wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:35 am So found out that the resolver is made by Singlsyn - variable reluctance brushless resolver. Doesn't help with knowing if it is linked to a quadrature encoder. If anyone has the answer, I bow in humble gratitude.

Any photo?

johu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:31 pm If you're running the "sine" software i.e. induction motor you can indeed do away with the current sensors. They'll only serve informational purpose and overload protection is done by Toyotas hardware.

If you want to run FOC you'll need current sensors of course.

I'll take that as gospel and continue!

Thanks!

So just to make sure I understand, Prius has Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor, thus NOT induction. So need FOC and current sensors to run the Gen 2 inverter and transaxle?

Yes indeed. Didn't read all messages so didn't know you were using the Transaxle

Would either of these be suitable as the current sensors?

I’ve been offered them at a fairly reasonable price.

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... w_sd02.pdf

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... _s_124.pdf

jnsaff wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:30 pm Would either of these be suitable as the current sensors?

I’ve been offered them at a fairly reasonable price.

Less than £1 each?

Is that what they’re worth or is this the benchmark for other solutions?

johu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:50 pm Yes indeed. Didn't read all messages so didn't know you were using the Transaxle

I have yet to find a complete build with Gen 2 transaxle to understand all the additional parts . Will look into current sensors this weekend and try to understand FOC.

jnsaff wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:40 pm Is that what they’re worth or is this the benchmark for other solutions?

You already have built in current sensors. All you need is to make their output compatible with the input of your chosen control board. That's about £1 worth of op-amp circuit.

jnsaff wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:30 pm Would either of these be suitable as the current sensors?

I’ve been offered them at a fairly reasonable price.

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... w_sd02.pdf

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... _s_124.pdf

They are low frequency - 70Hz. Does current sensor need to operate at frecuency of phase it sitting on for correct measuring?

Yes bandwidth should be a multiple of control loop frequency which is 8.8kHz

I have a meta question. To be clear, it's not a complaint or criticism, I'm just trying to understand the big picture.

Correct me if I'm wrong with my understanding too.

So, the Prius Gen 2 inverter has 3 current sensors on the inverter.

Johannes' Open Inverter software is designed for, and somewhat needs (or in some cases can be workarounded) some form of current sensor. As probably any inverter would.

Damien then built these Prius Gen 2 Blue Pill logic boards, hoping to help beginners by avoiding avoid the SMT parts like the early Gen 3 boards had because the Blue Pill has an integrated STM32 chip rather than having to solder the STM32 directly. But the Blue Pill is kind of limited, but maybe not in ways that matter that much. And is a dead-end for development anyway.

The Prius Gen 2 logic boards are not compatible with the Prius Gen 2 inverter. My question is... why?

I had some ideas:

1 - This was an early development board, and that's an advanced thing he was going to update in the future.
2 - There are some technical reasons he didn't want those things on this board. They would always be handled elsewhere.
3 - He made a mistake or just didn't know enough details about the board when he built these.
4 - There are limitations with this board/Blue Pill/whatever that didn't allow it.
5 - I'm sure many other possibilities.

Regardless, this is back to black magic for me, so to be useful, a procedural solution would be best. Something those of us with limited knowledge can just follow without having to know anything.

... and I know that this whole Blue Pill thing is a dead-end development, so, it's not worth a lot of effort, but now that there's 4(?) of us working on it, us all being on the same page would be helpful so each of us knows what to expect.

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:12 pm So, the Prius Gen 2 inverter has 3 current sensors on the inverter.

Just for starters, there are TWO sensors per inverter (MG1 & MG2)

SciroccoEV wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:46 amJust for starters, there are TWO sensors per inverter (MG1 & MG2)

Why only 2? Because you can infer the 3rd from knowing the 2?

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:02 pm

SciroccoEV wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:46 amJust for starters, there are TWO sensors per inverter (MG1 & MG2)

Why only 2? Because you can infer the 3rd from knowing the 2?

Generaly yes, but this means you need to allocate more processing power to this task.
Lebowski says his controler could run on two sensors, but any ground noise or emi echo is added on the missing sensor phase.
With three sensors start is much smoother.

A

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ZooKeeper wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:09 pm More information on the Gen2 Inverter - Converter.

This is great Could you update the wiki please?