ESP32 Based Chademo

Development and discussion of fast charging systems eg Chademo , CCS etc
Arlin
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Hi Guys, I just used these files to place an order from JLCPCB I have most of what I need. I plan to add this to a Rav 4 EV and my next Diy build after that. Does anyone know if we can use the BMS info to work with this as well? I will have a few questions as I go though this.

-Arlin
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Bigpie »

Only BMS supported is Simon's. Code changes will be needed or is BMS can messages can be mapped
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by tom91 »

Luckily its all opensource so you can make all the required changes in the code.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by arber333 »

Bigpie wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:17 am Only BMS supported is Simon's. Code changes will be needed or is BMS can messages can be mapped
Hi can you tell me what kind I/Os you use?
IN1 and IN2 are pullup inputs? In DUE version i use IN1 with signal LOW (GND) and 12V pullup with NPN transistor releasing pin to pullup.
IN2 signal directly with 12V signal and then interim NPN transistor would pull the pin down.

How are the OUT1 and OUT2 used? As open collector directly or should i use additional relay?

TNX
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by tom91 »

arber333 wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:56 pm Hi can you tell me what kind I/Os you use?
If only the circuits were opensourced. Oh wait they are on the first post.

https://github.com/jamiejones85/ESP32-Chademo

https://github.com/jamiejones85/ESP32-C ... hademo.pdf
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by arber333 »

tom91 wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:58 pm If only the circuits were opensourced. Oh wait they are on the first post.

https://github.com/jamiejones85/ESP32-Chademo

https://github.com/jamiejones85/ESP32-C ... hademo.pdf
I am actually making this application to use MCP2517FD circuit and i need to switch some things around and use a different library here...
Did you actually answer my question in your post? Not very helpful.
Did you actually use ESP32 to build Chademo VCU circuit? If not, then question to OP still applies as i only see gerbers and cant imagine what he used after the VCU.

So do you have any schamatic of interfacing VCU? TNX
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by tom91 »

arber333 wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:31 pm I am actually making this application to use MCP2517FD circuit and i need to switch some things around and use a different library here...
Did you actually answer my question in your post? Not very helpful.
Did you actually use ESP32 to build Chademo VCU circuit? If not, then question to OP still applies as i only see gerbers and cant imagine what he used after the VCU.

So do you have any schamatic of interfacing VCU? TNX
Really :x ? I linked the PDF schematic... You just need to click the link and look at it.
image.png
image.png
This forum is turning to shit with people needing to be spoon fed everything that is answered already in the topics.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by arber333 »

tom91 wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:46 pm Really :x ? I linked the PDF schematic... You just need to click the link and look at it.

This forum is turning to shit with people needing to be spoon fed everything that is answered already in the topics.
Sorry i couldnt see schematic on my github. Must be a problem with my fork version not being updated :oops:

EDIT: Yup... my version was really outdated and i seem to managed to remove that pdf... Tnx for details, ill get my act together... any day now.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

tom91 wrote:
This forum is turning to shit with people needing to be spoon fed everything that is answered already in the topics.
Yeah in his defence I didn't see the SCH the first few times clicking the link either. But for some reason someone else linked the same link and it showed the SCH. I think I had a similar issue with GIT as well. The gerber files were not there the first few times as well but the same thing once I got a link from someone else it showed them so I could use them.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Hmm So I got most of the things to work on this. But the first problem I run into is my ESP 32 is too narrow. by about 4-5mm Anyone else run into this problem?

Edit. Now that I have the boards. I was able to see the older ESP32 uses a wider footprint. But you also need to make sure the pinout matches.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by arber333 »

Arlin wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2024 12:08 am Hmm So I got most of the things to work on this. But the first problem I run into is my ESP 32 is too narrow. by about 4-5mm Anyone else run into this problem?

Edit. Now that I have the boards. I was able to see the older ESP32 uses a wider footprint. But you also need to make sure the pinout matches.
Yes you definitely need to check if the pinout is ok.
My design uses wider footprint and when i mount newer USB C equipped boards i need to bend both female headers inwards. 8-)
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Hmm I am having problems compiling the code. I have solved many of the libraries I needed to add. But this one has me stumped.
Also on git hub it says AsyncElegantOTA is archived and is read only it says please consider migrating to ElegantOTA instead.

How hard is that so I just change the include file name and add the ElegantOTA file?


"In file included from C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ChademoWebServer.cpp:4:
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\AsyncElegantOTA\src/AsyncElegantOTA.h:4:2: error: #error AsyncElegantOTA library is deprecated, Please consider migrating to newer ElegantOTA library which now comes with an async mode. Learn More: https:
4 | #error AsyncElegantOTA library is deprecated, Please consider migrating to newer ElegantOTA library which now comes with an async mode. Learn More: https://docs.elegantota.pro/async-mode/
| ^~~~~
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\AsyncElegantOTA\src/AsyncElegantOTA.h:18:14: fatal error: esp_int_wdt.h: No such file or directory
18 | #include "esp_int_wdt.h"
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
compilation terminated.
exit status 1

Compilation error: exit status 1"
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Ok So I tried just changing the include file to "ElegantOTA" and got this warning.

"C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ESP32-Chademo.ino: In function 'void setup()':
C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ESP32-Chademo.ino:151:21: error: too many arguments to function 'hw_timer_t* timerBegin(uint32_t)'
151 | timer = timerBegin(0, 80, true);
| ~~~~~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~~~~~
In file included from C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\hardware\esp32\3.0.4\cores\esp32/esp32-hal.h:84,
from C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\hardware\esp32\3.0.4\cores\esp32/Arduino.h:36,
from C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Temp\arduino\sketches\1F830700D6DD1A75C8B168530002D4EE\sketch\ESP32-Chademo.ino.cpp:1:
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\hardware\esp32\3.0.4\cores\esp32/esp32-hal-timer.h:35:13: note: declared here
35 | hw_timer_t *timerBegin(uint32_t frequency);
| ^~~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ESP32-Chademo.ino:153:23: error: too many arguments to function 'void timerAttachInterrupt(hw_timer_t*, void (*)())'
153 | timerAttachInterrupt(timer, &onTimer, true);
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\hardware\esp32\3.0.4\cores\esp32/esp32-hal-timer.h:50:6: note: declared here
50 | void timerAttachInterrupt(hw_timer_t *timer, void (*userFunc)(void));
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ESP32-Chademo.ino:158:3: error: 'timerAlarmWrite' was not declared in this scope; did you mean 'timerWrite'?
158 | timerAlarmWrite(timer, 25000, true);
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| timerWrite
C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ESP32-Chademo.ino:159:3: error: 'timerAlarmEnable' was not declared in this scope; did you mean 'timerAlarm'?
159 | timerAlarmEnable(timer);
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| timerAlarm
In file included from C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\hardware\esp32\3.0.4\libraries\WebServer\src/HTTP_Method.h:4,
from C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\hardware\esp32\3.0.4\libraries\WebServer\src/WebServer.h:30,
from c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ElegantOTA\src/ElegantOTA.h:73,
from C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ChademoWebServer.cpp:4:
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:95:6: error: 'HTTP_DELETE' conflicts with a previous declaration
95 | XX(0, DELETE, DELETE) \
| ^
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:138:45: note: in definition of macro 'XX'
138 | #define XX(num, name, string) HTTP_##name = num,
| ^~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:139:3: note: in expansion of macro 'HTTP_METHOD_MAP'
139 | HTTP_METHOD_MAP(XX)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In file included from C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ChademoWebServer.h:5,
from C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ChademoWebServer.cpp:1:
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ESPAsyncWebServer\src/ESPAsyncWebServer.h:64:3: note: previous declaration 'WebRequestMethod HTTP_DELETE'
64 | HTTP_DELETE = 0b00000100,
| ^~~~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:96:6: error: 'HTTP_GET' conflicts with a previous declaration
96 | XX(1, GET, GET) \
| ^
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:138:45: note: in definition of macro 'XX'
138 | #define XX(num, name, string) HTTP_##name = num,
| ^~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:139:3: note: in expansion of macro 'HTTP_METHOD_MAP'
139 | HTTP_METHOD_MAP(XX)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ESPAsyncWebServer\src/ESPAsyncWebServer.h:62:3: note: previous declaration 'WebRequestMethod HTTP_GET'
62 | HTTP_GET = 0b00000001,
| ^~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:97:6: error: 'HTTP_HEAD' conflicts with a previous declaration
97 | XX(2, HEAD, HEAD) \
| ^
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:138:45: note: in definition of macro 'XX'
138 | #define XX(num, name, string) HTTP_##name = num,
| ^~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:139:3: note: in expansion of macro 'HTTP_METHOD_MAP'
139 | HTTP_METHOD_MAP(XX)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ESPAsyncWebServer\src/ESPAsyncWebServer.h:67:3: note: previous declaration 'WebRequestMethod HTTP_HEAD'
67 | HTTP_HEAD = 0b00100000,
| ^~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:98:6: error: 'HTTP_POST' conflicts with a previous declaration
98 | XX(3, POST, POST) \
| ^
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:138:45: note: in definition of macro 'XX'
138 | #define XX(num, name, string) HTTP_##name = num,
| ^~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:139:3: note: in expansion of macro 'HTTP_METHOD_MAP'
139 | HTTP_METHOD_MAP(XX)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ESPAsyncWebServer\src/ESPAsyncWebServer.h:63:3: note: previous declaration 'WebRequestMethod HTTP_POST'
63 | HTTP_POST = 0b00000010,
| ^~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:99:6: error: 'HTTP_PUT' conflicts with a previous declaration
99 | XX(4, PUT, PUT) \
| ^
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:138:45: note: in definition of macro 'XX'
138 | #define XX(num, name, string) HTTP_##name = num,
| ^~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:139:3: note: in expansion of macro 'HTTP_METHOD_MAP'
139 | HTTP_METHOD_MAP(XX)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ESPAsyncWebServer\src/ESPAsyncWebServer.h:65:3: note: previous declaration 'WebRequestMethod HTTP_PUT'
65 | HTTP_PUT = 0b00001000,
| ^~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:102:6: error: 'HTTP_OPTIONS' conflicts with a previous declaration
102 | XX(6, OPTIONS, OPTIONS) \
| ^
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:138:45: note: in definition of macro 'XX'
138 | #define XX(num, name, string) HTTP_##name = num,
| ^~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:139:3: note: in expansion of macro 'HTTP_METHOD_MAP'
139 | HTTP_METHOD_MAP(XX)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ESPAsyncWebServer\src/ESPAsyncWebServer.h:68:3: note: previous declaration 'WebRequestMethod HTTP_OPTIONS'
68 | HTTP_OPTIONS = 0b01000000,
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:128:6: error: 'HTTP_PATCH' conflicts with a previous declaration
128 | XX(28, PATCH, PATCH) \
| ^~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:138:45: note: in definition of macro 'XX'
138 | #define XX(num, name, string) HTTP_##name = num,
| ^~~
C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Arduino15\packages\esp32\tools\esp32-arduino-libs\idf-release_v5.1-b6b4727c58\esp32/include/http_parser/http_parser.h:139:3: note: in expansion of macro 'HTTP_METHOD_MAP'
139 | HTTP_METHOD_MAP(XX)
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\ESPAsyncWebServer\src/ESPAsyncWebServer.h:66:3: note: previous declaration 'WebRequestMethod HTTP_PATCH'
66 | HTTP_PATCH = 0b00010000,
| ^~~~~~~~~~
C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ChademoWebServer.cpp: In member function 'void ChademoWebServer::setup()':
C:\Users\garbi\Desktop\DIY Chademo\ESP32-Chademo-main (1)\ESP32-Chademo-main\ESP32-Chademo\ChademoWebServer.cpp:132:3: error: 'AsyncElegantOTA' was not declared in this scope; did you mean 'ElegantOTA'?
132 | AsyncElegantOTA.begin(&server);
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| ElegantOTA

exit status 1

Compilation error: too many arguments to function 'hw_timer_t* timerBegin(uint32_t)'"
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Bigpie »

Using library ACAN_ESP32 at version 1.1.2
Using library ESPAsyncWebServer at version 1.2.3
Using library FS at version 2.0.0
Using library WiFi at version 2.0.0
Using library AsyncTCP at version 1.1.1
Using library ArduinoJson at version 6.20.1
Using library SPIFFS at version 2.0.0
Using library ACAN2515 at version 2.1.2
Using library SPI at version 2.0.0
Using library EEPROM at version 2.0.0
Using library AsyncElegantOTA at version 2.2.7
Using library Update at version 2.0.0
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Hmm Thanks for the Help Bigpie

I am still stuggling. I have a couple questions. One is the AsyncElegrantOTA is old and I keep seeing this warning.
"#warning AsyncElegantOTA.loop(); is deprecated, please remove it from loop() if defined. This function will be removed in a future release."
The next question is I actuall had to install from Zip for Both AsyncElegantOTA and for ESPAsyncWebServer at version 1.2.3
And neither of those show up in the libraries after doing so.

And with all that this is my current error. I feel close... But not there yet.

"c:/users/garbi/appdata/local/arduino15/packages/esp32/tools/xtensa-esp32-elf-gcc/esp-2021r2-patch5-8.4.0/bin/../lib/gcc/xtensa-esp32-elf/8.4.0/../../../../xtensa-esp32-elf/bin/ld.exe: C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Temp\arduino\sketches\F73DF8BA1B81828ABFB9CED0770C9C31\sketch\ESP32-Chademo.ino.cpp.o:c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\AsyncElegantOTA\src/AsyncElegantOTA.h:169: multiple definition of `AsyncElegantOTA'; C:\Users\garbi\AppData\Local\Temp\arduino\sketches\F73DF8BA1B81828ABFB9CED0770C9C31\sketch\ChademoWebServer.cpp.o:c:\Users\garbi\Documents\Arduino\libraries\AsyncElegantOTA\src/AsyncElegantOTA.h:169: first defined here
collect2.exe: error: ld returned 1 exit status

exit status 1

Compilation error: exit status 1"
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

OK I solved that and uploaded it to the ESP32 Board.

The last problem was I had "include <AsyncElegantOTA> in the ino file as well and had to remove it.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Bigpie wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 8:21 am ESP32-BMS.jpegScreenshot 2023-05-24 at 9.18.38 am.png Will this do? Wasn't charging, just sat on the drive.
Any chance we can get a read me for the gui setup?

Thanks.

-Arlin
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Actually all I think I need is to know how to find the web server or the IP address its not spitting it out how do I get that last step working?
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Bigpie »

If you connect to the ESP32 wifi network and the ip address will be 192.168.4.1
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Bigpie wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2024 5:56 am If you connect to the ESP32 wifi network and the ip address will be 192.168.4.1
Thank you.

I tried looking though the code and I didn't see "192.168.4.1"

So I tried this and connected via wifi but it doesn't work to type 192.168.4.1
I tried this on my PC and with my phone. Neither seems to work.

Also it seems to disappear from wifi fairly quick. And I will also point out I only have the board powered via USB cable.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by uhi22 »

ESP is picky regarding power supply. It usually crashes if the voltage drops due to high current consumption during WiFi transmission. Use a lab power supply or at least a shorter heavy USB cable.
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

uhi22 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 6:24 am ESP is picky regarding power supply. It usually crashes if the voltage drops due to high current consumption during WiFi transmission. Use a lab power supply or at least a shorter heavy USB cable.
Thank you.

How is the ESP supposed to get power from the shield?
I see the pin for 5v is not connected and the 3.3 from the ESP to the 3.3v supply has 2k resistance
It powers up with a good USB cable to the ESP but even with my 100w wall plug for fast charging my phone the 5v on the ESP is only at 4.4v...
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Bigpie
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Bigpie »

When you give the board the 12V supply the ESP32 gets 3.3v from the AMS1117
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Arlin
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Arlin »

Bigpie wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:10 pm When you give the board the 12V supply the ESP32 gets 3.3v from the AMS1117
Thank you. So I run a jumper from the 3.3v regulator to the 3.3v pin on the ESP and it still didn't work.

I then tested a new unused board from the GitHub files and it doesn't have continuity from the 3.3v regulator to the pin on the ESP32.
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Romale
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Re: ESP32 Based Chademo

Post by Romale »

hello everyone! Can I also ask a stupid question?
Can this device work with a hall effect current sensor? or on a regular 75 mv shunt?
Isabella's shunt is very expensive, it seems to me, in order to be accessible to the masses.
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